Another Malaysian airplane down

[Dr. Zaus]

Putin ordered the attack to start a world war where he shows that he has a bigger dick than obama: who as we all know has

 

[norseamd]

Putin ordered the attack to start a world war where he shows that he has a bigger dick than obama: who as we all know has

Putin is 5'5". Obama is 6'1" and half black.

 

[William Gaatjes]

For news, see this thread :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2391534&page=13

 

[Fern]

FAA and ICAO were more interested in making a political point about Crimea, which is at peace and perfectly safe to fly over, than actual air safety over an active war area where multiple planes have been shut down with high range SAMs in preceding days.
The AN-26 that was shut down before was flying at 20,000 feet, which is out of the range of man portable missile systems, and can only be done with a high altitude missile. So they should have known that shooting down a plane at high altitude could happen, because it has been happening. They still allowed planes to fly at higher than 30,000 feet, even though they should have known that there was capability and intent to shoot down planes at all altitudes.
Instead, they only banned air flights over Crimea to punish it for joining Russia, because they didn't want to acknowledge the reality that Russian and not Ukrainian air traffic control is in charge of the sky over Crimea now. Of course if you look on the map, if you ban flights over Crimea, then the closest detour is over Donetsk.
These guys should decide what their mission is, air safety or geopolitics, and let us know.

Yes, I agree that the previous shoot downs should have alerted aviation authorities (assuming they had confirmed that the plane(s0 were indeed shot down.

But as to punishing the Crimea, I don't see how diverting planes from over the Crimea punishes it in any way. I've lived where, under certain winds conditions, commercial planes flew over my home and I could've used some of that 'punishment'.

Fern

 

[code65536]

FAA and ICAO were more interested in making a political point about Crimea, which is at peace and perfectly safe to fly over, than actual air safety over an active war area where multiple planes have been shut down with high range SAMs in preceding days.
The AN-26 that was shut down before was flying at 20,000 feet, which is out of the range of man portable missile systems, and can only be done with a high altitude missile. So they should have known that shooting down a plane at high altitude could happen, because it has been happening. They still allowed planes to fly at higher than 30,000 feet, even though they should have known that there was capability and intent to shoot down planes at all altitudes.
Instead, they only banned air flights over Crimea to punish it for joining Russia, because they didn't want to acknowledge the reality that Russian and not Ukrainian air traffic control is in charge of the sky over Crimea now. Of course if you look on the map, if you ban flights over Crimea, then the closest detour is over Donetsk.
These guys should decide what their mission is, air safety or geopolitics, and let us know.

The Crimea ban was less about safety than about jurisdiction, since both Ukraine and Russia claim that airspace and traffic control. Who do you listen to? It's far easier to just avoid it. It was never about "punishing" anyone and more about not wanted to get mired in the politics.

As for the Donetsk region, it was assumed that the plane was out of reach of ground-based missiles, except for those controlled by the professional military, and that the professional military will not target civilian aircraft. Their error was that assumption that the criminal gangs (or "separatists", if you don't want to call a spade a spade) that control that area didn't have these missiles. There was and still is some dispute over that downed transport--whether it was from a ground-based missile or from Russian aircraft.

 

[theeedude]

The Crimea ban was less about safety than about jurisdiction, since both Ukraine and Russia claim that airspace and traffic control. Who do you listen to? It's far easier to just avoid it. It was never about "punishing" anyone and more about not wanted to get mired in the politics.

As for the Donetsk region, it was assumed that the plane was out of reach of ground-based missiles, except for those controlled by the professional military, and that the professional military will not target civilian aircraft. Their error was that assumption that the criminal gangs (or "separatists", if you don't want to call a spade a spade) that control that area didn't have these missiles. There was and still is some dispute over that downed transport--whether it was from a ground-based missile or from Russian aircraft.

AN-26 was shot at 21,000 feet. Even their president said 3 days before that it was not a portable missile, but a more powerful one.
Yet Ukraine ATC did not route civilian planes around the area.

 

[Victorian Gray]

AN-26 was shot at 21,000 feet. Even their president said 3 days before that it was not a portable missile, but a more powerful one.
Yet Ukraine ATC did not route civilian planes around the area.

Is there anything that Putin and his thugs can do that would have you condemn them? Anything at all? Or are you planning on spending the rest of your life apologizing and deflecting for the asshole?

 

[theeedude]

Is there anything that Putin and his thugs can do that would have you condemn them? Anything at all? Or are you planning on spending the rest of your life apologizing and deflecting for the asshole?

Of course civilian collateral damage is always a tragedy. Putin bears responsibility for his support of a side in a conflict that resulted in these tragic deaths. That is already well covered though. But as an air traveler, I am more concerned about whether the civilian aviation regulators and authorities on the ground are acting in the interest of passenger safety rather than politics. If you are not concerned that international air travel regulators don't issue any warnings and Ukrainian air traffic control sends planes into a location where a military plane was blown out of the sky at 21,000 feet 3 days earlier, that's fine, but it is concerning to me.

 

[michal1980]

Of course civilian collateral damage is always a tragedy. Putin bears responsibility for his support of a side in a conflict that resulted in these tragic deaths. That is already well covered though. But as an air traveler, I am more concerned about whether the civilian aviation regulators and authorities on the ground are acting in the interest of passenger safety rather than politics. If you are not concerned that international air travel regulators don't issue any warnings and Ukrainian air traffic control sends planes into a location where a military plane was blown out of the sky at 21,000 feet 3 days earlier, that's fine, but it is concerning to me.

bla bla bla. I'm a putin apologist.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Of course civilian collateral damage is always a tragedy. Putin bears responsibility for his support of a side in a conflict that resulted in these tragic deaths. That is already well covered though. But as an air traveler, I am more concerned about whether the civilian aviation regulators and authorities on the ground are acting in the interest of passenger safety rather than politics. If you are not concerned that international air travel regulators don't issue any warnings and Ukrainian air traffic control sends planes into a location where a military plane was blown out of the sky at 21,000 feet 3 days earlier, that's fine, but it is concerning to me.

So, it's a life of apologizing and deflecting.

 

[theeedude]

I am going to say what I have to say on the subject.
If you wanna be all EMO,
<- Love and Relationship

 

[Victorian Gray]

I am going to say what I have to say on the subject.
If you wanna be all EMO,
<- Love and Relationship

apologizing and deflecting.

 

[theeedude]

apologizing and deflecting.

Emo

 

[Victorian Gray]

Emo

You are (and have been) acting as an apologist for a thug and his gang. That's all Putin and his fake 'rebels' are. You can dance around this all you want but at the end of the day, that's all you're doing.

 

[theeedude]

You are (and have been) acting as an apologist for a thug and his gang. That's all Putin and his fake 'rebels' are. You can dance around this all you want but at the end of the day, that's all you're doing.

And you are EMO. And at the end of the day, all you are doing is writing up your emotions instead of thinking rationally. And that's fine, but just pointing out that Love and Relationship (or Off Topic) may be a better forum for you than Politics and News.

 

[dawheat]

Of course civilian collateral damage is always a tragedy. Putin bears responsibility for his support of a side in a conflict that resulted in these tragic deaths. That is already well covered though. But as an air traveler, I am more concerned about whether the civilian aviation regulators and authorities on the ground are acting in the interest of passenger safety rather than politics. If you are not concerned that international air travel regulators don't issue any warnings and Ukrainian air traffic control sends planes into a location where a military plane was blown out of the sky at 21,000 feet 3 days earlier, that's fine, but it is concerning to me.

21,000ft and 32,000 ft are very different profiles - it's 2 miles higher up. Hindsight being 20:20, I do understand that civilian airlines felt "safe" within the 32-35K ft corridor - knowing that only professional military equipment were a risk. Unfortunately the assumption that only a professional military would have access and the capability to use said equipment - including the radar system - was obviously wrong.

If Russia is proven to have provided the weapons and training to trigger happy, undisciplined cowboys - then it's no different than a parent giving a child a loaded gun and then claiming no fault when it goes all wrong.

<edit> Another note about 21k vs 35K - there are actually modern man-held SAMs that are capable of reaching 21K feet. There's nothing man-held that can get near to 35K feet. They're not remotely the same thing.

 

[theeedude]

<edit> Another note about 21k vs 35K - there are actually modern man-held SAMs that are capable of reaching 21K feet.

Such as?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Putin has a tiny dick and molests little boys, this is why the Russian people love him.

senseamp knows this

 

[Victorian Gray]

And you are EMO. And at the end of the day, all you are doing is writing up your emotions instead of thinking rationally. And that's fine, but just pointing out that Love and Relationship (or Off Topic) may be a better forum for you than Politics and News.

You keep throwing the word EMO at me as if that actually means something.

The fact remains that since Putin started his maneuvers against the Ukraine you have consistently backed him no matter what. He claims there are no Russian troops in the Crimea, there you are trailing behind going Yea Putin!

He later admits he lied, there you are trailing behind going Yea Putin!

He starts stirring shit in the Eastern Ukraine, where this time the majority happen to be ethnic Ukrainian, and there you are trailing behind going Yea Putin!

His drunken cowboys shoot down an airliner with several hundred passengers and there you are trailing behind and going Yea Putin! and why *were* those stupid people there in the first place?

Fucking pathetic.

following your 'chief' for the rest of your life

 

[theeedude]

You keep throwing the word EMO at me as if that actually means something.

The fact remains that since Putin started his maneuvers against the Ukraine you have consistently backed him no matter what. He claims there are no Russian troops in the Crimea, there you are trailing behind going Yea Putin!

He later admits he lied, there you are trailing behind going Yea Putin!

He starts stirring shit in the Eastern Ukraine, where this time the majority happen to be ethnic Ukrainian, and there you are trailing behind going Yea Putin!

His drunken cowboys shoot down an airliner with several hundred passengers and there you are trailing behind and going Yea Putin! and why *were* those stupid people there in the first place?

Fucking pathetic.

following your 'chief' for the rest of your life

Are you familiar with the term "ad hominem?"

 

[norseamd]

following your 'chief' for the rest of your life

What does this have to do with Native Americans?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Are you familiar with the term "ad hominem?"

You have accepted and apologized for everything Putin and his thugs have done since this shit started. You don't like being reminded of this behavior on your part, too bad.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What does this have to do with Native Americans?

Absolutely nothing. It was a a not particularly well done bit of sarcasm.

 

[theeedude]

You have accepted and apologized for everything Putin and his thugs have done since this shit started. You don't like being reminded of this behavior on your part, too bad.

You sure do like talking about me.
To channel Eleanor Roosevelt, "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
You discuss people you are having the discussion with. Not sure where that puts your mind on that scale, you may have broken the bottom off it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You sure do like talking about me.
To channel Eleanor Roosevelt, "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
You discuss people you are having the discussion with. Not sure where that puts your mind on that scale, you may have broken the bottom off it.

Is this gibberish supposed to signify something?