Who cares what the facts are, as long as the story make you sleep well at night right? Oh and why are we not going after China for Tinamen square thing, may be after ourselves for all the Indians we killed 300 years ago. Halabja was what? 15 years ago?
Geez, the administration give you this "Freedom Iraq" crap and you all believe we are going after Hussein because he violates human right and mistreat his people. In the entire human history, there is no one country fight a war for another tens of thousand miles away to free the people, pay for the rebuilding all in the name of freedom. But there are plenty of example where a country invaded another country under the cover of some very good excuse.
Geez, the administration give you this "Freedom Iraq" crap and you all believe we are going after Hussein because he violates human right and mistreat his people. In the entire human history, there is no one country fight a war for another tens of thousand miles away to free the people, pay for the rebuilding all in the name of freedom. But there are plenty of example where a country invaded another country under the cover of some very good excuse.
Back in the old Fidonet days, a thread on the bombing of Japan went on for almost a year. I'm just waiting for this to get into the firebombing of Dresden and how it was worse.
Actually, the US did not invent chemical weapons. Those were invented in Europe.
And sure, we invented the nuke but you know why? Because if we had not, Hitler would have done so first.
This sort of after-the-fact anti-American rhetoric is so pointless. You might as well bitch and moan about the slaughter and forced exile of hundreds of thousands of American Indians. Or the unfair invasion of Mexico during the Spanish-American war. Or the numerous civilians killed in Vietnam.
At the same time, if you insist on maintaining this line of argument, then you have to agree that the US has done a whole lot of good in the world as well.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
- 0
Go do some reading on the firebombing of Dresden. More people, estimates are between 350,000 - 600,000, were killed there than in both of the nuclear attacks on Japan. Try knowing something about what you are talking about before you actually start talking about it.
yeah and i love that this article is featured on a site that has the following on its front page:
Articles on
9-11
(1) Evidence of high-level government complicity
(2) Interviews related to 9-11 & Afghanistan
(3) Osama Bin Laden's involvement in Western attacks on Afghanistan and the Balkans. Evidence he kept his ties with the CIA.
(4) US/West European links to Islamic Fundamentalism
(5) Evidence that "Strategic Racism" is the method of the US/Euro Empire.
(6) What is the US/Euro Strategy in Central Asia? We argue that it's not about oil
no bias there, huh?
Link on much more info on the decision to drop the A Bomb than most would like.
It was certainly more information than I was thinking of looking up, but it was worth it when I did.
It was certainly more information than I was thinking of looking up, but it was worth it when I did.
I like your little sig..
Please go back to 8th grade government class and see what it takes to elect a President in the US. Maybe then you won't be hung up on the election and you'd stop your crying about it. Think it's not fair? Well guess what, instead of bitching and moaning, do something to change it or get the f%ck out! The US is all about freedom of speech but frankly, I just don't like listening to broken records!
I researched this last year. IIFC Halabja was pretty weak in the "gassing his own people" dept. Iraq was at war with Iran who then possessed and liberally used the most destructive WMDs. Type of gas that nailed the civies in that town was only known to be used by Iran.
However the other commonly sited instance of "gassing his own people", the Kurds, likely occurred as there is evidence and it was probably ordered by the Butcher himself.
However the other commonly sited instance of "gassing his own people", the Kurds, likely occurred as there is evidence and it was probably ordered by the Butcher himself.
Where do you find these sites Moonie? The "Paypal Donation" banner on that site certainly lends to its credibility.......
"The atomic bombings of Japan occurred three months after the surrender of Germany, whose potential for creating a Nazi a-bomb had led Einstein to push for the development of an a-bomb for the Allies. Einstein withheld public comment on the atomic bombing of Japan until a year afterward. A short article on the front page of the New York Times contained his view: "Prof. Albert Einstein... said that he was sure that President Roosevelt would have forbidden the atomic bombing of Hiroshima had he been alive and that it was probably carried out to end the Pacific war before Russia could participate." ("Einstein Deplores Use of Atom Bomb", New York Times, 8/19/46, pg. 1). Einstein later wrote, "I have always condemned the use of the atomic bomb against Japan." (Otto Nathan & Heinz Norden, editors, "Einstein on Peace", pg. 589)."
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
A wonderful thing is our opinion. Better yet when we get to express it. It even can be stated without the support of facts.
But then there's Saddam... whose actions are supported by the facts... at least by the bodies of the dead that cry from their graves for a quick reunion with him. He'll use the WMD if he has them... wouldn't you if your existance was about to end....
We risk much to push the issue... and that is the issue... me thinks.
But then there's Saddam... whose actions are supported by the facts... at least by the bodies of the dead that cry from their graves for a quick reunion with him. He'll use the WMD if he has them... wouldn't you if your existance was about to end....
We risk much to push the issue... and that is the issue... me thinks.
He'll use the WMD if he has them... wouldn't you if your existance was about to end....
-----------------------
I hate to blow smoke on your argument because I agree with it except for the wouldn't you part. I most certainly would not.
-----------------------
I hate to blow smoke on your argument because I agree with it except for the wouldn't you part. I most certainly would not.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Back in the old Fidonet days, a thread on the bombing of Japan went on for almost a year. I'm just waiting for this to get into the firebombing of Dresden and how it was worse.[/quote]
Ask and ye shall receive[/quote]
Ah the memories
[/quote]I often wondered about the differnce between a thousand bombers dropping tons of bombs versus one dropping the same. Marquess of Queensbury rules of war notwithstanding....
kenneth pollack's recent book contain two references to the gassing of the kurds, both of these references attribute the cause
to saddam hussein's direct campaign against the kurdish uprising and their support of iran. kenneth pollack served 7 years in
the cia as a persian gulf military analyst, and is formerly a director of national securtiy studies at the council on foreign relations,
and formely director of gulf affairs at the national security council.
his first reference is on page 20, and includes an important footnote about the source.
"on march 15, 1988, ali hassan (the infamous 'chemical ali') conducted his most
famous attack swamping the kurdish town of halabja with several varieties of cw and killing at least 5,000 kurdish civilians . when the
campaign finally ended in 1989, some two hundred thoudand kurds were dead, roughtly 1.5 million had been forcibly resettled, huge swaths of kurdistan had been scorchedby chemical warfare, and four thousand towns had been razed."
the source sited by pollack was an interview given by the former head of iraq's military intelligence, wafiq al-sammari'a, who had
fled from iraq in 1994 and debriefed by kurdish groups.
this is false. the town could not have been 'seized' by iran. the kurds and iran were cooperating. they were alllies. the kurds could've
invited the iranians in, but since among the thousands of dead not a single iranian soldier was ever identified its seems unlikely there
were any in the vicinity at the time of the attack.
more importantly, saddam and company did not expect to find any iranians in the towns they targeted. their main objective was to
weaken kurdish resolve for fear their support for iran could tilt the war away from iraq. iraq was winning at this late stage, and would
win the war within the year.
the iraqi progrom was known as the al-anfal campaign. chemical ali, the governor
of northern iraq at the time of the attacks, clearly understood the attack would target civilians, possibly hitting actual kurdish peshmerga
fighters, but would nonethless inflict a severe psychological trauma.
Let me see. Give up power, take my countless billions(some people say that Saddam is the richest man in the world), and retire to a life of luxury in the French Riviera. Or stay and fight to the death and use WMD to spit in the face of the "great Satan" Bush.......hmmm, tough choice.....
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