Another imminent terror-attack thwarted

[SamurAchzar]

Really?

* Free market
* Democracy
* Shared military interests
* Vast presence by US corporates (Google, Yahoo, Intel, IBM, GM, Microsoft, TI, Marvell, Broadcom all have Israeli R&D centers, and the full list is dozens of companies)
* Cooperation with the US against the Soviet bloc
* Israeli public has the most positive view of US out of ANY nation on earth, and has been even before Israel bought US military hardware (pre-67)

Israel is a part of the Western world, Arab states aren't. There is no ally closer to US from all aspects than Israel.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Really?

There is no ally closer to US from all aspects than Israel.

In the Middle East, you're saying?

 

[Red Dawn]

Their corrupt regimes are US allies, the population is far from it. Their loyalty to US comes from strategic reasons (arms, money, protection, political support), not from any shared values.

So corrupt their leaders are convicted of rape..wait, that was Israel.

 

[cubby1223]

Yes, but I don't understand how Israel has anything to do with how women are treated in the Arab world. If you can explain this point, I'd appreciate it.

It's called a comparison.

 

[cubby1223]

So corrupt their leaders are convicted of rape..wait, that was Israel.

Exactly! The U.S. has never had a leader who received sexual favors... 😛

Don't make the actions of one person representative of the group. At least in Israel he was convicted. In the Arab world the woman is the guilty one and probably executed.

 

[Red Dawn]

Exactly! The U.S. has never had a leader who received sexual favors... 😛

Don't make the actions of one person representative of the group. At least in Israel he was convicted. In the Arab world the woman is the guilty one and probably executed.

Received? More like taken.

Yeah the Arab World sucks no doubt, that doesn't mean it's in our best interest to stick our kneck out for Israel, at least to the extent we do.

My point is our support of Israel has come with some pretty hefty consequences.

 

[Pocatello]

My point is our support of Israel has come with some pretty hefty consequences.

Drawing caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad has its own hefty consequences too, no?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Egypt and Jordan are our allies too or are you that naive?

they are bought allies.

all paid to make peace with israel and made our allies.

 

[Red Dawn]

Drawing caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad has its own hefty consequences too, no?

Needless to say

 

[Red Dawn]

they are bought allies.

all paid to make peace with israel and made our allies.

A consequence of our close alliance with Israel

 

[Freshgeardude]

A consequence of our close alliance with Israel

yea and being in alliance with israel helps train our soldiers, manufacture our ammunition, improve our technologies,

and during the cold war, give the US soviet technologies.

what has lebanon, syria, iraq, iran, afganistan, egypt, jordan, etc ever do to help the US?

the only thing in the ME besides israel that we need is oil.

 

[Red Dawn]

yea and being in alliance with israel helps train our soldiers, manufacture our ammunition, improve our technologies,

I agree, being allies with Israel has made us a more lethal military force. We need to be seeing as we are close allies with Israel. On the other hand if we weren't their Sugar Daddys we probably wouldn't need to be so lethal as there probably wouldn't be such a menacing Radical Islamic movement today.

 

[Red Dawn]

what has lebanon, syria, iraq, iran, afganistan, egypt, jordan, etc ever do to help the US?

They (Syria,Jordan and Egypt) helped us kick Saddam Hussien out of Kuwait and Egypt and Jordan work with us with the WOT..which probably wouldn't have been such a problem is we didn't have such a close alliance with Israel.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I agree, being allies with Israel has made us a more lethal military force. We need to be seeing as we are close allies with Israel. On the other hand if we weren't their Sugar Daddys we probably wouldn't need to be so lethal as there probably wouldn't be such a menacing Radical Islamic movement today.

oh so the problems with the taliban, AQ and the shitholes known as afganistan, pakistan, and iraq are all israel's fault?

i didnt know that those primitive wackos were trying to kill us because we are allies with israel.


i didnt think someone can be this much of an idiot.

 

[Freshgeardude]

They (Syria,Jordan and Egypt) helped us kick Saddam Hussien out of Kuwait and Egypt and Jordan work with us with the WOT..which probably wouldn't have been such a problem is we didn't have such a close alliance with Israel.

israel caused saddam hussien to invade kuwait. yep. you know it all.

 

[Red Dawn]

oh so the problems with the taliban, AQ and the shitholes known as afganistan, pakistan, and iraq are all israel's fault?

i didnt know that those primitive wackos were trying to kill us because we are allies with israel.

Their problem with us is. If we didn't support Israel those primitive whackos wouldn't have such a big hard on for us.

i didnt think someone can be this much of an idiot

Oh I did, I've read your posts before.

Anyway... I think they all suck, Israel just sucks a little less.

 

[SamurAchzar]

In the Middle East, you're saying?

No. Everywhere.

So corrupt their leaders are convicted of rape..wait, that was Israel.

Imagine yourself, a country so corrupt that it has an independent justice system that won't be scared to send a former president to a "double digit" number of prison years, and who's actively persecuting former heads of state.

I agree, being allies with Israel has made us a more lethal military force. We need to be seeing as we are close allies with Israel. On the other hand if we weren't their Sugar Daddys we probably wouldn't need to be so lethal as there probably wouldn't be such a menacing Radical Islamic movement today.

That's no more than your own assessment. The rise of Islam has many factors, Israel being the least of them. It's more to do with the way Arab countries are managed; is the Iranian revolution, which was a precursor to other radicals, had anything to do with Israel? Israel and Iran were on very close terms before Khomeini took power.

The Muslim brotherhood in Egypt was formed in the beginning of the last century, while Israel was just an idea. And what does the Taliban have to do with Israel?

The Muslims are angry for US meddling with their countries and supporting the regimes which heavily oppress them, such as in Jordan, Syria, and Afghanistan.
The US presence in this country is done to secure US interests, it has very little to do with Israel itself. You wouldn't want AQ to grab control of the Saudi oil supply, I'm sure.

Historically that has began in the time of the Soviet bloc, US saw Israel as its warhead against Soviet influence in the region and as a testbed for US systems against Soviet ones, as well as a source for unparalleled intelligence. Israel filled those roles very well until the fall of the USSR.

Obviously supporting Israel doesn't help the opinion of US, but blaming it for the radicalization of the Muslim world is beyond ridiculous. Hinting that US should let the Arabs overrun the Jews to appease Muslim radicals is just plain antisemitism.

 

[Red Dawn]

No. Everywhere.



Imagine yourself, a country so corrupt that it has an independent justice system that won't be scared to send a former president to a "double digit" number of prison years, and who's actively persecuting former heads of state.



That's no more than your own assessment. The rise of Islam has many factors, Israel being the least of them. It's more to do with the way Arab countries are managed; is the Iranian revolution, which was a precursor to other radicals, had anything to do with Israel? Israel and Iran were on very close terms before Khomeini took power.

The Muslim brotherhood in Egypt was formed in the beginning of the last century, while Israel was just an idea. And what does the Taliban have to do with Israel?

The Muslims are angry for US meddling with their countries and supporting the regimes which heavily oppress them, such as in Jordan, Syria, and Afghanistan.
The US presence in this country is done to secure US interests, it has very little to do with Israel itself. You wouldn't want AQ to grab control of the Saudi oil supply, I'm sure.

Historically that has began in the time of the Soviet bloc, US saw Israel as its warhead against Soviet influence in the region and as a testbed for US systems against Soviet ones, as well as a source for unparalleled intelligence. Israel filled those roles very well until the fall of the USSR.

Obviously supporting Israel doesn't help the opinion of US, but blaming it for the radicalization of the Muslim world is beyond ridiculous. Hinting that US should let the Arabs overrun the Jews to appease Muslim radicals is just plain antisemitism.

There you go again, using the antisemitism card. I have nothing against Jews, nothing at all.

That said if it wasn't for our support of Israel the Soviet Union wouldn't of had much of an influence in the M.E. Why would any Muslim state ally itself with an Atheist State except they had no where else to turn? They hate non believers more than anybody else under normal circumstances, in addition we had more of what they needed back then than the Soviets...money. Who knows, if the West hadn't of supported Israel the Soviets would have stepped in to do it just to get a toe hold in the M.E.

I will grant you this, you are correct that our meddling in their affairs did make us a target for for the Radical Islamic movement but it was our support of Israel that enabled those radical Islamist to garner support from the less radical muslims and without that they wouldn't of be able nor had the will to attack us like they did on 9/11 and without 9/11 happening there wouldn't have been the war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Their problem with us is. If we didn't support Israel those primitive whackos wouldn't have such a big hard on for us.

Oh I did, I've read your posts before.

Anyway... I think they all suck, Israel just sucks a little less.

bahaha i dont understand how you can make yourself believe such bullshit.


oh since we are allies with israel, they hate us more.

the taliban doesnt hate us because of israel. its because of the shitholes in afganistan and pakistan.

they may make an excuse saying they hate israel also, but it didnt stem from israel into the US.

you are an idiot.

 

[Freshgeardude]

There you go again, using the antisemitism card. I have nothing against Jews, nothing at all.

That said if it wasn't for our support of Israel the Soviet Union wouldn't of had much of an influence in the M.E. Why would any Muslim state ally itself with an Atheist State except they had no where else to turn? They hate non believers more than anybody else under normal circumstances, in addition we had more of what they needed back then than the Soviets...money. Who knows, if the West hadn't of supported Israel the Soviets would have stepped in to do it just to get a toe hold in the M.E.

I will grant you this, you are correct that our meddling in their affairs did make us a target for for the Radical Islamic movement but it was our support of Israel that enabled those radical Islamist to garner support from the less radical muslims and without that they wouldn't of be able nor had the will to attack us like they did on 9/11 and without 9/11 happening there wouldn't have been the war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

oh thats really stepping it up. blaming israel for 9/11.

i think ill throw you next to kylebisme and the rest of the conspiracy wackos.

 

[Red Dawn]

bahaha i dont understand how you can make yourself believe such bullshit.


oh since we are allies with israel, they hate us more.

the taliban doesnt hate us because of israel. its because of the shitholes in afganistan and pakistan.

they may make an excuse saying they hate israel also, but it didnt stem from israel into the US.

you are an idiot.

No you are myopic and an idiot. If it weren't for our support of Israel there never would have been the events that led up to 9/11 and without 9/11 there never would have been a war in Iraq or one that we were involved in with Afghanistan. I'm talking about the past 50 years that lead up to 9/11

 

[SamurAchzar]

That said if it wasn't for our support of Israel the Soviet Union wouldn't of had much of an influence in the M.E. Why would any Muslim state ally itself with an Atheist State except they had no where else to turn? They hate non believers more than anybody else under normal circumstances, in addition we had more of what they needed back then than the Soviets...money. Who knows, if the West hadn't of supported Israel the Soviets would have stepped in to do it just to get a toe hold in the M.E.

Egypt back in the day wasn't a theocracy, and in fact it isn't one now. Neither are the other Middle Eastern Arab countries with the exception of Saudi Arabia.

All ME countries were recovering from colonialism and sided with USSR as a result. USSR had lots to gain, Egypt had important shipping ways (Suez canal) and the other countries had oil.
Until 1967, the support US gave to Israel was mostly political, there was a ban on the sale of military hardware to Israel. Most of the Israeli equipment came from Europe.

US swayed Egypt away from the Soviets as part of the Camp David accords with Israel.

I will grant you this, you are correct that our meddling in their affairs did make us a target for for the Radical Islamic movement but it was our support of Israel that enabled those radical Islamist to garner support from the less radical muslims and without that they wouldn't of be able nor had the will to attack us like they did on 9/11 and without 9/11 happening there wouldn't have been the war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

There are two issues here: First is the radicalization of Islam, the second is their targeting of USA. The former has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, it's a process that started long before Israel and kept on going on different parts of the world.

As for the second, we can never know for sure. Certainly Israel is not high on global Jihad's target list, and Muslims seem to have more pressing issues with USA than its support for Israel.
Saying 9/11 wouldn't have occurred without the support of Israel is completely baseless.

 

[Red Dawn]

oh thats really stepping it up. blaming israel for 9/11.

i think ill throw you next to kylebisme and the rest of the conspiracy wackos.

Hell your beyond myopic, your fucking blind. Nowhere did I blame Israel for 9/11.

 

[Red Dawn]

Egypt back in the day wasn't a theocracy, and in fact it isn't one now. Neither are the other Middle Eastern Arab countries with the exception of Saudi Arabia.

All ME countries were recovering from colonialism and sided with USSR as a result. USSR had lots to gain, Egypt had important shipping ways (Suez canal) and the other countries had oil.
Until 1967, the support US gave to Israel was mostly political, there was a ban on the sale of military hardware to Israel. Most of the Israeli equipment came from Europe.

US swayed Egypt away from the Soviets as part of the Camp David accords with Israel.



There are two issues here: First is the radicalization of Islam, the second is their targeting of USA. The former has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, it's a process that started long before Israel and kept on going on different parts of the world.

As for the second, we can never know for sure. Certainly Israel is not high on global Jihad's target list, and Muslims seem to have more pressing issues with USA than its support for Israel.
Saying 9/11 wouldn't have occurred without the support of Israel is completely baseless.

I disagree but it doesn't matter, we are were we are and any second guessing on my part is fruitless. Just don't get your undies in a bunch when someone isn't all gaga over Israel, we've got in bad with them so we're stuck with them which should make you happy. I don't see us abandoning them anytiome soon. Of course the Israelis get all outraged when we disagree with them with issues like the settlements

 

[Freshgeardude]

Hell your beyond myopic, your fucking blind. Nowhere did I blame Israel for 9/11.

oh really?

I will grant you this, you are correct that our meddling in their affairs did make us a target for for the Radical Islamic movement but it was our support of Israel that enabled those radical Islamist to garner support from the less radical muslims and without that they wouldn't of be able nor had the will to attack us like they did on 9/11 and without 9/11 happening there wouldn't have been the war in Iraq or Afghanistan.