Another I'm sick of gas prices. . .

[PanzerIV]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
Jeff7181, this morning on the way to work they were mentioning that diesel engines can use vegetable oil with no modifications! I haven't heard of that before. Yes, that would be great for farmers. They said there was a place that was getting vegetable oil and reselling it for .90 cents a gallon in the NE.

It's possible... but more likely that they'd use grain alcohol since it burns cleaner and I'm 90% sure it produces more power than vegetable oil.

You may be right. I know nothing of alternative fuels other than snippets I've heard over the years. To my knowledge there aren't any available in my area even if I was interested in them.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

There are people in that situation in this country... using food stamps to feed their family, using their paycheck to pay for a roof and utilities and possibly medication... spending twice as much on gasoline to drive to their crappy job may not prevent them from eating, but it could prevent them from buying medication and various other things.

Give them gas stamps. problem solved.

LOL, Like I said, using another government program to pay for the damage caused by the socially engineered economic policies that, in reality, only screw the poor.

Oh, and say goodbye to hot deals. There wont be any left because higher gas prices means higher prices across the board... even food and clothing which, again, screws the poor more than anyone else.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Aharami
how am i short sighted and not the people who are actually using up the gas faster than the others?? lets see here. why are the gas prices high? cuz the demand is WAAAAY higher than the supply. why is the demand higher? cuz of all these people driving gas guzzling vehicles (SUVs/sports cars/pickups...SUVs and pickups get picked on most cuz they are A LOT more common on the road)

if most drove cars that get atleast 25mpg highway, america would consume a LOT less gas...which would have a rippling effect on gas prices as well

No, OPEC would cut production to keep prices higher.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: isasir

Originally posted by: Amused
I also find it funny that no one complained about minivans and fullsize vans, yet there is this huge uproar over SUVs. Anti SUV folks are as much sheep as the SUV drivers themselves.

Who the hell drives a minivan to look cool? 😉

It really depends on the minivan 😀

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: IGBT
Enjoy it while you can..when big ketchup becomes pres(kerry) he's going to tax the crabs out of us..punishment tax for using gas...

lol big ketchup. our country needs to break its oil addiction somehow.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: PanzerIV

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
Jeff7181, this morning on the way to work they were mentioning that diesel engines can use vegetable oil with no modifications! I haven't heard of that before. Yes, that would be great for farmers. They said there was a place that was getting vegetable oil and reselling it for .90 cents a gallon in the NE.

It's possible... but more likely that they'd use grain alcohol since it burns cleaner and I'm 90% sure it produces more power than vegetable oil.

You may be right. I know nothing of alternative fuels other than snippets I've heard over the years. To my knowledge there aren't any available in my area even if I was interested in them.

I don't know a lot about it either... most of what I learned was in college... I had a class right next to the alternate fuels class, and they experimented with lots of different types of fuels on the engine dyno... they determined alcohol was the most cost effective when considering the cost to convert and engine to run on alcohol. All that was needed in the dyno room was a different carb with seals that could handle the alcohol and of course proper jetting since I believe the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of alcohol is about 8:1 as opposed to 14.7:1 of gasoline. Also a special type of oil was required too since alcohol will completely wash regular oil off the cylinder walls.

 

[StageLeft]

I also find it funny that no one complained about minivans and fullsize vans, yet there is this huge uproar over SUVs. Anti SUV folks are as much sheep as the SUV drivers themselves.

Minivans get MUCH better mileage than SUVs.

The irony here is that diesel vehicles are the big sized SUVs like the Ford Excrusion and trucks, yet diesel is running much cheaper right now not to mention this vegetable oil thing I hadn't heard of. So, in essence the guys with the biggest gas guzzlers of all can save the most the way things are right now!

Huge vehicles, but the vast majority of SUVs drink gasoline.

In regards to the poor argument, I mean really who cares. If you're poor it sucks. I hear the "think about the poor" everytime somebody mentions taxes. Raise taxes? How will the poor survive? Lower taxes? How will the poor get their social programs? If you're poor you can't have everything. Gas at $3 isn't going to be killing people off or having the poor unable to go to work.

The Western world is feeding upon a finite resource like gasoline recklessly and I have yet to hear a single way around the problem. The sad thing is that a lot of people who were alive in the 70's just harp back to the big scare back then and how it was fake, so then all the scares now must be fake too. Or they say "Scienec will take care of it when the time comes". I find this patently irresponsible.

We've all heard the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but right now nobody is adding in prevention at all. Gas consumption continues to skyrocket, and the average vhielce on the road gets worse gas mileage now than it did 20 years ago.

Oh, and say goodbye to hot deals. There wont be any left because higher gas prices means higher prices across the board... even food and clothing which, again, screws the poor more than anyone else.

I don't use the HD forum 😀 And yes of course it screws the poor more. That's the nature of being poor, you have less money.

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: Amused
What makes me laugh is people blaming the present admin for this. If Kerry and his ilk had their way, gas would be $5+ a gallon.

quit spreading lies. kerry's not gonna slap on a 2.50 gas tax. Why doesn't bush use his oil connections for good for once and get some better prices? How come he's not making a fuss over the fvcking american oil companies who are fleecing us as badly as opec? Cause they're his friends and he loves seeing money from hard working americans go straight to his rich friends' pockets.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: crimson117

Originally posted by: Amused
What makes me laugh is people blaming the present admin for this. If Kerry and his ilk had their way, gas would be $5+ a gallon.

quit spreading lies. kerry's not gonna slap on a 2.50 gas tax. Why doesn't bush use his oil connections for good for once and get some better prices? How come he's not making a fuss over the fvcking american oil companies who are fleecing us as badly as opec? Cause they're his friends and he loves seeing money from hard working americans go straight to his rich friends' pockets.

Why did Bush fall off his bike this weekend? Because he had a meeting with big oil just before and the weight of his wallet was keeping him balance off 😀

Why did bush fall off his bike? Because Rumsfeld wasn't around to take the fall.

Why did bush fall off his bike? Because Billy joel ran him off the road.

Why did bush fall off his bike? He was inebriated because his sports drink was switched with his daughter jenna's.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I also find it funny that no one complained about minivans and fullsize vans, yet there is this huge uproar over SUVs. Anti SUV folks are as much sheep as the SUV drivers themselves. /q]Minivans get MUCH better mileage than SUVs.

The irony here is that diesel vehicles are the big sized SUVs like the Ford Excrusion and trucks, yet diesel is running much cheaper right now not to mention this vegetable oil thing I hadn't heard of. So, in essence the guys with the biggest gas guzzlers of all can save the most the way things are right now!

Huge vehicles, but the vast majority of SUVs drink gasoline.

In regards to the poor argument, I mean really who cares. If you're poor it sucks. I hear the "think about the poor" everytime somebody mentions taxes. Raise taxes? How will the poor survive? Lower taxes? How will the poor get their social programs? If you're poor you can't have everything. Gas at $3 isn't going to be killing people off or having the poor unable to go to work.

The Western world is feeding upon a finite resource like gasoline recklessly and I have yet to hear a single way around the problem. The sad thing is that a lot of people who were alive in the 70's just harp back to the big scare back then and how it was fake, so then all the scares now must be fake too. Or they say "Scienec will take care of it when the time comes". I find this patently irresponsible.

We've all heard the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but right now nobody is adding in prevention at all. Gas consumption continues to skyrocket, and the average vhielce on the road gets worse gas mileage now than it did 20 years ago.

The gas problem will solve itself when we finally do run out... and I don't see that happening anytime soon. It was supposed to happen at least three times in the short time I've been alive. To me, it's a bunch of over-hyped chicken little crap.

What is really irresponsible is socially engineering the economy. Allowing a few elites to dictate to the rest of us what is best for us. That is not the purpose of our government.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: PanzerIV

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
Jeff7181, this morning on the way to work they were mentioning that diesel engines can use vegetable oil with no modifications! I haven't heard of that before. Yes, that would be great for farmers. They said there was a place that was getting vegetable oil and reselling it for .90 cents a gallon in the NE.

It's possible... but more likely that they'd use grain alcohol since it burns cleaner and I'm 90% sure it produces more power than vegetable oil.

You may be right. I know nothing of alternative fuels other than snippets I've heard over the years. To my knowledge there aren't any available in my area even if I was interested in them.

I don't know a lot about it either... most of what I learned was in college... I had a class right next to the alternate fuels class, and they experimented with lots of different types of fuels on the engine dyno... they determined alcohol was the most cost effective when considering the cost to convert and engine to run on alcohol. All that was needed in the dyno room was a different carb with seals that could handle the alcohol and of course proper jetting since I believe the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio of alcohol is about 8:1 as opposed to 14.7:1 of gasoline. Also a special type of oil was required too since alcohol will completely wash regular oil off the cylinder walls.

But we're talking about diesels here.

Alcohol won't run in a diesel. At least, it is very hard to make alcohol a diesel fuel.

It has a very high octane number. That is exactly the opposite of what you want in a diesel fuel.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

For the middle classes, higher gas prices, even doubled to $5 a gallon merely mean a few less dinners out. For the poor, it means much, much more. Possibly not being able to drive to work.

But then, the elitists who feel the need to dictate what other people drive don't understand, and/or care about that. They'll just push for more government programs to prop-up the people they screwed with their failed socially engineered economics.

I think maybe we have different opinions about the middle class. The average family in the US makes what like $70k/year? Let's say they drive 30,000 total and their vehicles get 20 mpg combined. You increase gas from $2 to $5 and that's costing them $4500/year from their take home. That's GOUGING their income, especially since so many people in the middle classes have such a terribly poor grasp on personal finances that they're barely keeping above water anyway.

In regards to the poor not getting to work, well you'd have to be a meal away from starvation to be that poor that this it no longer allowing you to get to work. Anyway I see a lot of lower-class people driving vehicles with crap milage - big boats, older suvs, etc. Maybe it's time for them to trade up as well.

This doesn't change the overall indisputable fact that gas guzzling vehicles are wasting a finite resource. Catering to people's good intentinos doesn't work and never will. You have to hit them where it hurts and that's in the pocket book. Unless the government is going to step in rationing and things of this nature (No, Uncle Sam can't step on our god-given right to drive an SUV!), well then it's only going to happen with punishing gas prices.

Another benefit of all of this is that the suv lovers still want big vehicles, and this will open up an increasing market for hybrids and alternative energy vehicles. That helps _everyone_, and decreases the western world's reliance upon the middle east.

When it all comes down to it I see SUVs is a gross waste, and truly representative of the human condition of greed and reckless consumption. I see gas prices as the cure, so life is good.

couldnt have said it better myself.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: crimson117

Originally posted by: Amused
What makes me laugh is people blaming the present admin for this. If Kerry and his ilk had their way, gas would be $5+ a gallon.

quit spreading lies. kerry's not gonna slap on a 2.50 gas tax. Why doesn't bush use his oil connections for good for once and get some better prices? How come he's not making a fuss over the fvcking american oil companies who are fleecing us as badly as opec? Cause they're his friends and he loves seeing money from hard working americans go straight to his rich friends' pockets.

I siad Kerry and his ilk. And my point has been more than proven by many of the more liberal responses in this thread praising the higher prices and begging for more.

Bush does not control OPEC. Bush cannot force the building of new refineries, and his energy plan was voted down. What more do you want him to do???

Please detail exactly what Bush could do that is within his capacity as President that could lower gas prices. Then detail what he supposedly did to make them higher.

You cannot, so the rest of your post is merely slander.

 

[StageLeft]

What is really irresponsible is socially engineering the economy. Allowing a few elites to dictate to the rest of us what is best for us. That is not the purpose of our government.

But the economy is forced often and in undeniably positive ways like with monopolies. The problem with letting the economy and those in it run amuck is that it is inherently greedy and like a herd of animals that consume an area, destroy it, and move on, the economy has no motivation towards conservation. This is why bubbles burst and economies crumble, because they just feed upon themselves with little regard for the future.

Eitherway, nobody is forcing it here, since tax rates in the US on gas are so humble, so it's interesting to see how the economy now has run gas prices up all by itself, and now it has to pay the price of its greed.

And of course the economy acts totally separately from the environment and has zero interest in acting in the environment's interest. People have no interest either.

 

[StageLeft]

Please detail exactly what Bush could do that is within his capacity as President that could lower gas prices. Then detail what he supposedly did to make them higher.

Bush can't do much about gas prices to lower them, just as the general public doesn't do anything about the environment, except to consume as much gas as they can afford 😛

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

What is really irresponsible is socially engineering the economy. Allowing a few elites to dictate to the rest of us what is best for us. That is not the purpose of our government.

But the economy is forced often and in undeniably positive ways like with monopolies. The problem with letting the economy and those in it run amuck is that it is inherently greedy and like a herd of animals that consume an area, destroy it, and move on, the economy has no motivation towards conservation. This is why bubbles burst and economies crumble, because they just feed upon themselves with little regard for the future.

Eitherway, nobody is forcing it here, since tax rates in the US on gas are so humble, so it's interesting to see how the economy now has run gas prices up all by itself, and now it has to pay the price of its greed.

And of course the economy acts totally separately from the environment and has zero interest in acting in the environment's interest. People have no interest either.

No, it's paying the price of people like yourself. Gas prices are high because of a lack of refineries. There is a lack of refineries because of chicken-little folks. The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all? :roll:

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Please detail exactly what Bush could do that is within his capacity as President that could lower gas prices. Then detail what he supposedly did to make them higher.

Bush can't do much about gas prices to lower them, just as the general public doesn't do anything about the environment, except to consume as much gas as they can afford 😛

I have to ask, why would you move to a country who's entire economic system is 100% opposite from what you approve of?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Skoorb

What is really irresponsible is socially engineering the economy. Allowing a few elites to dictate to the rest of us what is best for us. That is not the purpose of our government.

But the economy is forced often and in undeniably positive ways like with monopolies. The problem with letting the economy and those in it run amuck is that it is inherently greedy and like a herd of animals that consume an area, destroy it, and move on, the economy has no motivation towards conservation. This is why bubbles burst and economies crumble, because they just feed upon themselves with little regard for the future.

Eitherway, nobody is forcing it here, since tax rates in the US on gas are so humble, so it's interesting to see how the economy now has run gas prices up all by itself, and now it has to pay the price of its greed.

And of course the economy acts totally separately from the environment and has zero interest in acting in the environment's interest. People have no interest either.

No, it's paying the price of people like yourself. Gas prices are high because of a lack of refineries. There is a lack of refineries because of chicken-little folks. The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all? :roll:

What? Why is our lack of refineries because of the "enviro-nuts"?

AFAIK, The lack of refineries is a direct result of petroleum products being so cheap for so long. There was no incentive to build new refineries. That might change now with oil companies posting record profits.

 

[StageLeft]

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all?

Well I DEFINITELY don't trust the future of the environment to my fellow man. I'd be a fool to - humanity has consistently shown its inability to conserve.

The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

Hey, nobody else gives a damn about the environment except for them.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Skoorb

What is really irresponsible is socially engineering the economy. Allowing a few elites to dictate to the rest of us what is best for us. That is not the purpose of our government.

But the economy is forced often and in undeniably positive ways like with monopolies. The problem with letting the economy and those in it run amuck is that it is inherently greedy and like a herd of animals that consume an area, destroy it, and move on, the economy has no motivation towards conservation. This is why bubbles burst and economies crumble, because they just feed upon themselves with little regard for the future.

Eitherway, nobody is forcing it here, since tax rates in the US on gas are so humble, so it's interesting to see how the economy now has run gas prices up all by itself, and now it has to pay the price of its greed.

And of course the economy acts totally separately from the environment and has zero interest in acting in the environment's interest. People have no interest either.

No, it's paying the price of people like yourself. Gas prices are high because of a lack of refineries. There is a lack of refineries because of chicken-little folks. The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all? :roll:

What? Why is our lack of refineries because of the "enviro-nuts"?

The lack of refineries is a direct result of petroleum products being so cheap for so long. There was no incentive to build new refineries. That might change now with oil companies posting record profits.

Much of the reason for a lack of refineries is the same reason CA found itself with a dire lack of powerplants. Any time someone wants to build a new one, the enviro-nuts throw a fit.

 

[StageLeft]

I have to ask, why would you move to a country who's entire economic system is 100% opposite from what you approve of?

It's not 100% different. The US has the best economy in the world, and from a money-making standpoint it's a model for others to follow. Nobody thinks that it's perfect though and unfortunately you can't breath money. The economy would like to act as separately from the environment as posssible, but both are linked, and allowing it to act autonomously is irresponsible.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Skoorb

What is really irresponsible is socially engineering the economy. Allowing a few elites to dictate to the rest of us what is best for us. That is not the purpose of our government.

But the economy is forced often and in undeniably positive ways like with monopolies. The problem with letting the economy and those in it run amuck is that it is inherently greedy and like a herd of animals that consume an area, destroy it, and move on, the economy has no motivation towards conservation. This is why bubbles burst and economies crumble, because they just feed upon themselves with little regard for the future.

Eitherway, nobody is forcing it here, since tax rates in the US on gas are so humble, so it's interesting to see how the economy now has run gas prices up all by itself, and now it has to pay the price of its greed.

And of course the economy acts totally separately from the environment and has zero interest in acting in the environment's interest. People have no interest either.

No, it's paying the price of people like yourself. Gas prices are high because of a lack of refineries. There is a lack of refineries because of chicken-little folks. The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all? :roll:

Even the liberals have admitted this, the refineries are running @ full production & unable to produce enough to keep the prices down.

The major auto manuf have been nearly giving away full size pickups & SUV's since 9-11, now there are F/S V-8 engined SUV's from Toyota/Nissan, etc.

Who would have guessed the increased demand would kill the refineries, & Oil companies are very reluctant to build new ones because of all the new regulations imposed upon them.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Amused

Much of the reason for a lack of refineries is the same reason CA found itself with a dire lack of powerplants. Any time someone wants to build a new one, the enviro-nuts throw a fit.

Hmm... power plants I can understand, but I guess I wasn't aware that refineries pollute(significantly)...?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all?

Well I DEFINITELY don't trust the future of the environment to my fellow man. I'd be a fool to - humanity has consistently shown its inability to conserve.

The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

Hey, nobody else gives a damn about the environment except for them.

Man has, and always will conserve when it NEEDS to. If we didn;t, we wouldn't be here.

If you think the enviro-nuts are the only ones who care, you have a LOT to learn. There are plenty of sensible ecology minded people out there who are not twisted by leftist agendas and resorting to mindless fear tactics.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Amused
No, it's paying the price of people like yourself. Gas prices are high because of a lack of refineries. There is a lack of refineries because of chicken-little folks. The true blame for high prices right now are the enviro-nuts.

So you trust your future to a few elitists in government rather than your fellow man? Hell, why not just start a monarchy or dictatorship and have one nanny for all? :roll:

the hell?? so u'd rather destroy the nature to serve ur purposes? :roll:
raise gas prices and a few people suffer
lower enviro standards of refineries to make gas cheaper - kill mother nature faster

the 2nd one is a LOT worse IMO!