Another gun thread

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
M&P is a fine gun. I had the "full sized" 9mm. Ended up selling it because it didn't stack up to my P229 but I'm considering getting another one.
Go and join this forum if you want a bigger source of information.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php
PliableMoose: I'm sure your multiple gsw victims might also be because 9mm is such a popular round. I'm guessing that 9mm you found in the heart wasn't a jhp? I personally like Federal HST or winchester rangers in my pistols. In my "compact" and larger sized ones, I use 147grain and in my little kahr pm9, I use 124gr +p. See here for information found on winchester' website that I made a chart out of.
http://www.kelvrick.com/rangerchart.jpg

:thumbsup:
I'm also wagering someone with 135 or 147 grains of 9mm Hydra-Shok in his right ventricle will be rolled into the ER to be pronounced, if they don't just take him straight to the M.E.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
M&P was a fine gun. I had the "full sized" 9mm. Ended up selling it because it didn't stack up to my P229 but I'm considering getting another one.

Go and join this forum if you want a bigger source of information.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php

PliableMoose: I'm sure your multiple gsw victims might also be because 9mm is such a popular round. I'm guessing that 9mm you found in the heart wasn't a jhp? I personally like Federal HST or winchester rangers in my pistols. In my "compact" and larger sized ones, I use 147grain and in my little kahr pm9, I use 124gr +p. See here for information found on winchester' website that I made a chart out of.

http://www.kelvrick.com/rangerchart.jpg

I'm no expert on 9mm only have one because I got it in a kit... http://www.sigsauer.com/Produc...oryid=35&productid=228

but what do think of Cor-Bon 115gr DPX dealer recommended to me? That's what I have in 226 atm...

 

[Blueychan]

Sig 226 or Sig 229 imo. Polymer pistols suck epically.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Blueychan
Sig 226 or Sig 229 imo. Polymer pistols suck epically.

I love my Glocks - personal opinion, I guess.

Plus, they're really, really hard to kill. :Q

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: Blueychan
Sig 226 or Sig 229 imo. Polymer pistols suck epically.

I love my Glocks - personal opinion, I guess.

Plus, they're really, really hard to kill. :Q

That poor Glock.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
M&P is a fine gun. I had the "full sized" 9mm. Ended up selling it because it didn't stack up to my P229 but I'm considering getting another one.
Go and join this forum if you want a bigger source of information.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php
PliableMoose: I'm sure your multiple gsw victims might also be because 9mm is such a popular round. I'm guessing that 9mm you found in the heart wasn't a jhp? I personally like Federal HST or winchester rangers in my pistols. In my "compact" and larger sized ones, I use 147grain and in my little kahr pm9, I use 124gr +p. See here for information found on winchester' website that I made a chart out of.
http://www.kelvrick.com/rangerchart.jpg

:thumbsup:
I'm also wagering someone with 135 or 147 grains of 9mm Hydra-Shok in his right ventricle will be rolled into the ER to be pronounced, if they don't just take him straight to the M.E.

Yea, it IS a fine pistol. I was thinking was since I had one. I personally think Hyda-shok is outdated now, but its still way better then some cheap (relatively) fmj's you get from walmart for range purposes.

Zebo: That is a fine combo you have there. I actually really like my P226 as well, although I mainly use my Kahr PM9 since its just so light and comfortable to carry. I think

You gotta test what your gun likes. I went out to the woods with a stack of 10 soaked phone books, my kahr, sig p226 and 6 different boxes of 9mm and put 5 rounds through both guns to see what the bullets looked like and which ones the gun liked more. I didn't like how the 147gr versions performed in my kahr and I'm guessing because of the short barrel and lost velocity.

HST 124gr +p
HST 147gr
Gold dot 124gr +p
Gold dot 147gr
Ranger 124gr +p
Ranger 147gr

Certainly not scientific, but check out this page for 9mm comparisons. Boxotruth is nice as well. Your P226 with its full-sized barrel should have all of them performing well, you just have to see which one it happens to dislike. Get a couple magazines through to make sure the shape of the bullet doesn't cause feeding issues with your ramp.

http://frag.110mb.com/

Bloueychan: Good guns are good guns as long as they work for whoever as them. I don't like HK's magazine release system but I'll put out the x box at 20 yards with a P2000 and a box of 50 and I haven't had a malfunction yet. I'd hate to carry a full-framed 1911 compared to my polymer 3" kahr, but a 9mm 1911 is just a joy to shoot at the range.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Whenever I see the name "Springfield XD", I think Springfield smiley face.

same here

 

[SparkyJJO]

I've fired one of those, even for someone who hasn't shot very many guns I noticed it was well balanced and I could fire off several shots and get a decent pattern, and I'm just a noob.

Very nice gun IMO. My friend who's a pretty big gun nut liked it a lot too.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Yea, it IS a fine pistol. I was thinking was since I had one. I personally think Hydra-shok is outdated now, but its still way better then some cheap (relatively) fmj's you get from walmart for range purposes.

I prefer to think of it as a "vintage projectile design"

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
I've fired one of those, even for someone who hasn't shot very many guns I noticed it was well balanced and I could fire off several shots and get a decent pattern, and I'm just a noob.

You make a good point; in most cases, a good pistol is one that fits your hand correctly (assuming basic reliability). One test I like to make is what I call my "natural point test". I close my eyes and point a pistol at a target. I then open my eyes, and see how close the sight point is to bullseye. The M&P passes the test, as does my Ruger P95DC. The Glocks I've tried don't come close. This means the Glock is a bad pistol - for me.
Obviously, YMMV.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
M&P is a fine gun. I had the "full sized" 9mm. Ended up selling it because it didn't stack up to my P229 but I'm considering getting another one.
Go and join this forum if you want a bigger source of information.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php
PliableMoose: I'm sure your multiple gsw victims might also be because 9mm is such a popular round. I'm guessing that 9mm you found in the heart wasn't a jhp? I personally like Federal HST or winchester rangers in my pistols. In my "compact" and larger sized ones, I use 147grain and in my little kahr pm9, I use 124gr +p. See here for information found on winchester' website that I made a chart out of.
http://www.kelvrick.com/rangerchart.jpg

:thumbsup:
I'm also wagering someone with 135 or 147 grains of 9mm Hydra-Shok in his right ventricle will be rolled into the ER to be pronounced, if they don't just take him straight to the M.E.

The guy with a 9mm slug in his ventricle is doing fine, extubated today, he'll walk out of the hospital in a week or so.

I'm waiting on a guy that was hit 8 times today by a 9mm to roll out of the OR as we speak...

8 freaking shots (3 center mass) and he's likely going to survive, as I said, I see it every day, the 9mm is a shit caliber.

Give me a .40, a .45, 357 sig, or a 10mm.

 

[Orsorum]

I have an M&P Compact 9mm, and love it.

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
M&P is a fine gun. I had the "full sized" 9mm. Ended up selling it because it didn't stack up to my P229 but I'm considering getting another one.
Go and join this forum if you want a bigger source of information.
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php
PliableMoose: I'm sure your multiple gsw victims might also be because 9mm is such a popular round. I'm guessing that 9mm you found in the heart wasn't a jhp? I personally like Federal HST or winchester rangers in my pistols. In my "compact" and larger sized ones, I use 147grain and in my little kahr pm9, I use 124gr +p. See here for information found on winchester' website that I made a chart out of.
http://www.kelvrick.com/rangerchart.jpg

:thumbsup:
I'm also wagering someone with 135 or 147 grains of 9mm Hydra-Shok in his right ventricle will be rolled into the ER to be pronounced, if they don't just take him straight to the M.E.

The guy with a 9mm slug in his ventricle is doing fine, extubated today, he'll walk out of the hospital in a week or so.

I'm waiting on a guy that was hit 8 times today by a 9mm to roll out of the OR as we speak...

8 freaking shots (3 center mass) and he's likely going to survive, as I said, I see it every day, the 9mm is a shit caliber.

Give me a .40, a .45, 357 sig, or a 10mm.

You cannot possibly make judgments on the caliber unless you know what type of ammo and firearm was used, and from what distance.

I consider my self a very good shot, and with four mags I will keep one loaded with defensive rounds.

 

[Pliablemoose]

With over 15 years of ER experience, and working in a trauma level 1 & 2 hospitals, I sure as hell will call the 9mm a POS round, no one that works trauma will carry a 9mm as a result...

An honest assessment of the round without all the hype is needed here, not fanboy BS.

Real life isn't paper targets.

 

[Pliablemoose]

My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

Kinetic energy is not *that* different

Take these highest loaded Cor-Bon JHP's

9mm Luger+P

115gr JHP

1350fps

466ftlbs

vs.

45 Auto+P

165gr JHP

1250fps

573ftlbs

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm

The 357sig is right there with 45ACP and 40 in between the 9mm and 45. But really it's only ~20% difference top to bottom and cheaper 45ACP rounds which most people use have less KE than 9mm above ex: 396 ft/lbs. Something else has to explain your trends or KE is not entire story.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Zebo
...Something else has to explain your trends.

You don't suppose the overwhelming popularity of the 9mm round has something to do with the overwhelming proportion of 9mm GSW survivors, do you?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Zebo
...Something else has to explain your trends.

You don't suppose the overwhelming popularity of the 9mm round has something to do with the overwhelming proportion of 9mm GSW survivors, do you?

No I think gangsters and pimps dont shoot people with $40 a box loads but go to wal-mart and get the weak 250ftlbs stuff for $12.

It's just like a 223's so-called nonlethalality - buy cheap 55 grain shit and no fragmentation passes right though. Buy NATO loaded heavy gr. bullets like TAP LE rounds and it 'explodes' ripping chest out.

Ammo selection is key on these small calibers. And why I like 308, 44mag etc - no guess work and cheapest ammo does the job.

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

IRC it started to be more popular after the Miami indecent where FBI agents hit their adversary with a 9mm and he kept fighting and killed a few agents. First off, they only hit him once, in the arm, after passing through the arm it stopped short of the heart. Second of all, they brought pistols to a rifle fight, thirdly he was a much better shot then they were, and finally, they were using 115 grain crap rounds.

And please, I am supposed to believe you can tell how expensive ammo is after you pull the bloody mess out of a human body? And furthermore you can tell how expensive the firearm that shot it was? Even if I believed that for a second "expensive" has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a defense round.

With all that being said, I have a 12, 16, and 20 gauge available to me for home defense. My state does not have a CC law, more than likely this gun will never have to be used on a human. And if it does, I am more than confident in my shooting and the effectiveness of the caliber to defend myself.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

IRC it started to be more popular after the Miami indecent where FBI agents hit their adversary with a 9mm and he kept fighting and killed a few agents. First off, they only hit him once, in the arm, after passing through the arm it stopped short of the heart. Second of all, they brought pistols to a rifle fight, thirdly he was a much better shot then they were, and finally, they were using 115 grain crap rounds.

And please, I am supposed to believe you can tell how expensive ammo is after you pull the bloody mess out of a human body? And furthermore you can tell how expensive the firearm that shot it was? Even if I believed that for a second "expensive" has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a defense round.

With all that being said, I have a 12, 16, and 20 gauge available to me for home defense. My state does not have a CC law, more than likely this gun will never have to be used on a human. And if it does, I am more than confident in my shooting and the effectiveness of the caliber to defend myself.

LOL, I love this thread, tell you what, you get a shot at me with a 9mm and I get to use a 44 mag, no head shots, guess who's fucked?

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

IRC it started to be more popular after the Miami indecent where FBI agents hit their adversary with a 9mm and he kept fighting and killed a few agents. First off, they only hit him once, in the arm, after passing through the arm it stopped short of the heart. Second of all, they brought pistols to a rifle fight, thirdly he was a much better shot then they were, and finally, they were using 115 grain crap rounds.

And please, I am supposed to believe you can tell how expensive ammo is after you pull the bloody mess out of a human body? And furthermore you can tell how expensive the firearm that shot it was? Even if I believed that for a second "expensive" has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a defense round.

With all that being said, I have a 12, 16, and 20 gauge available to me for home defense. My state does not have a CC law, more than likely this gun will never have to be used on a human. And if it does, I am more than confident in my shooting and the effectiveness of the caliber to defend myself.

LOL, I love this thread, tell you what, you get a shot at me with a 9mm and I get to use a 44 mag, no head shots, guess who's fucked?

No one is debating that a .44 magnum is more powerful than a 9mm. Don't argue like a tool. To answer your question, we're both fucked. A Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P moving 1275 ft/sec is going to fuck you up, I don't care who you are.

Federal 115-gr. JHP:
Average Velocity: 1111 ft/sec

Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P:
Average Velocity: 1276 ft/sec

Care to explain to me how you would tell the difference between these two rounds after you pull them out of a body? Or would you like to post another irrelevant .44 MAG vs 9mm statement?

 

[Zebo]

44 now you're talking - Check these bad boys out 1649 ft/lbs
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#44P

The closest semi-auto is 10mm with less than half that.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

IRC it started to be more popular after the Miami indecent where FBI agents hit their adversary with a 9mm and he kept fighting and killed a few agents. First off, they only hit him once, in the arm, after passing through the arm it stopped short of the heart. Second of all, they brought pistols to a rifle fight, thirdly he was a much better shot then they were, and finally, they were using 115 grain crap rounds.

And please, I am supposed to believe you can tell how expensive ammo is after you pull the bloody mess out of a human body? And furthermore you can tell how expensive the firearm that shot it was? Even if I believed that for a second "expensive" has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a defense round.

With all that being said, I have a 12, 16, and 20 gauge available to me for home defense. My state does not have a CC law, more than likely this gun will never have to be used on a human. And if it does, I am more than confident in my shooting and the effectiveness of the caliber to defend myself.

LOL, I love this thread, tell you what, you get a shot at me with a 9mm and I get to use a 44 mag, no head shots, guess who's fucked?

No one is debating that a .44 magnum is more powerful than a 9mm. Don't argue like a tool. To answer your question, we're both fucked. A Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P moving 1275 ft/sec is going to fuck you up, I don't care who you are.

Federal 115-gr. JHP:
Average Velocity: 1111 ft/sec

Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P:
Average Velocity: 1276 ft/sec

See the difference?

Care to explain to me how you would tell the difference between these two rounds after you pull them out of a body? Or would you like to post another irrelevant .44 MAG vs 9mm statement?

What the hell are you babbling about rounds after they've been removed? Who cares? 100fps difference in your puny ass rounds doesn't mean squat...

The 9 does not have the knockdown power to be an adequate weapon, it's all gang related rap song BS...

LOL, another 9mm victim in the ER tonight walked fucking in...

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My patient had 4 hits to the chest today, the slugs go into custody so we don't examine them, but I promise you these guys buy expensive guns and ammo.

Just took the guy to ICU... He'll walk out of here too...

I have 1 9mm weapon, it's a curio piece and holds 50 rounds.

A little reading shows the average # of shots in a firefight etc, any weapon that won't take someone down in 1 or 2 shots is pretty useless, maybe reading up a bit about how the 45 became a regular issue weapon might lead to a little illumination about things like kinetic energy, etc...

All hail the mighty 9mm, what a joke...

IRC it started to be more popular after the Miami indecent where FBI agents hit their adversary with a 9mm and he kept fighting and killed a few agents. First off, they only hit him once, in the arm, after passing through the arm it stopped short of the heart. Second of all, they brought pistols to a rifle fight, thirdly he was a much better shot then they were, and finally, they were using 115 grain crap rounds.

And please, I am supposed to believe you can tell how expensive ammo is after you pull the bloody mess out of a human body? And furthermore you can tell how expensive the firearm that shot it was? Even if I believed that for a second "expensive" has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a defense round.

With all that being said, I have a 12, 16, and 20 gauge available to me for home defense. My state does not have a CC law, more than likely this gun will never have to be used on a human. And if it does, I am more than confident in my shooting and the effectiveness of the caliber to defend myself.

LOL, I love this thread, tell you what, you get a shot at me with a 9mm and I get to use a 44 mag, no head shots, guess who's fucked?

No one is debating that a .44 magnum is more powerful than a 9mm. Don't argue like a tool. To answer your question, we're both fucked. A Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P moving 1275 ft/sec is going to fuck you up, I don't care who you are.

Federal 115-gr. JHP:
Average Velocity: 1111 ft/sec

Corbon 115-gr. DPX +P:
Average Velocity: 1276 ft/sec

See the difference?

Care to explain to me how you would tell the difference between these two rounds after you pull them out of a body? Or would you like to post another irrelevant .44 MAG vs 9mm statement?

What the hell are you babbling about rounds after they've been removed? Who cares? 100fps difference in your puny ass rounds doesn't mean squat...

The 9 does not have the knockdown power to be an adequate weapon, it's all gang related rap song BS...

LOL, another 9mm victim in the ER tonight walked fucking in...

I want to know how you can promise me these thugs walking in use expensive equipment and ammo. I didnt mean that 100 fps would make a huge differene, Im just asking how you would tell the difference between the two.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Ok, you've got me, every single gsw I've treated has been shot with cheap ammo, god damn, I've been proven a liar in front of all of ATOT...

Doesn't change the fact that the 9 is an inadequate round for anything less than head shots, paper targets and counterstrike.

I'm on my phone, but I know someone can find a link to the reason the FBI no longer carries a 9mm, something about a perp taking 9 slugs to the chest and still killing one or two agents

 

[Pliablemoose]

Found it, the perp in Miami took 12 rounds before he does, took out 2 Agents and crippled 2 more.

Factor in how fat people are now, and you have a useless weapon