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Another great achievement by humans

Might be an example of shoot, shovel, shut up. Seriously, if you own land and an endangered species so much as looks at it much less decides to stay for a while, you basically will never be able to use the land again much less redevelop it.
 
glenn1 said:
Might be an example of shoot, shovel, shut up. Seriously, if you own land and an endangered species so much as looks at it much less decides to stay for a while, you basically will never be able to use the land again much less redevelop it.
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Yeah, I think ES Act really needs to find a common ground with this. I'm all for protecting species and preserving habitats, but I think it's only reasonable to adequately compensate land owners, or at least work with them regularly to develop solutions to make fair use of their land along with the species.

I think most property owners would be cooperative if the current laws weren't so callous towards land owners.

In the case in the OP, I think it's also possible that it was nothing more than an accident. A lot of hunters tend to be very responsible when it comes to the animals they target, and are generally more conscious and respectful of species and bird behavior than your amateur bird watcher/overnight environmentalist. It probably sounds weird to people that don't hunt, but hunters tend to love the animals to a greater degree than anyone else.
 
zinfamous said:
Yeah, I think ES Act really needs to find a common ground with this. I'm all for protecting species and preserving habitats, but I think it's only reasonable to adequately compensate land owners, or at least work with them regularly to develop solutions to make fair use of their land along with the species.

I think most property owners would be cooperative if the current laws weren't so callous towards land owners.

In the case in the OP, I think it's also possible that it was nothing more than an accident. A lot of hunters tend to be very responsible when it comes to the animals they target, and are generally more conscious and respectful of species and bird behavior than your amateur bird watcher/overnight environmentalist. It probably sounds weird to people that don't hunt, but hunters tend to love the animals to a greater degree than anyone else.
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The point is that instead of worrying about manmade treaties and laws, the thing that escapes most people is that the human being is totally irresponsible towards the Earth. Whether its the land, the ocean, the air, or the animals - he will destroy and exploit them if its for his gain. Or what he things is his gain.

I'm asking, do we really gain if we kill off animals and pollute the Earth as we've been doing for a couple of centuries?

Does hunting give you so much pleasure as to take an animal's life? Apparently it does.

So, let's carry on destroying the Earth and its animals for our pleasures. But lets not complain when there is total imbalance in the environments at all levels. We should accept dirty air, increase in natural disasters, increase in global conflicts and increase in illnesses. I know it sounds very cliche but we reap what we sew. For us, our science and technology, combined with personal gain, trumps everything.
 
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raildogg said:
I'm asking, do we really gain if we kill off animals and pollute the Earth as we've been doing for a couple of centuries? Does hunting give you so much pleasure as to take an animals life? Apparently it does.
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Are you saying hunting is bad? Or stupid hunters shooting cranes during goose season is bad?
 
surfsatwerk said:
Are you saying hunting is bad? Or stupid hunters shooting cranes during goose season is bad?
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It doesn't matter what I say. I'm just pointing out what we humans are.

We're wiping out species after species. As for hunters, they are glorified killers of animals.
 
read the giraffe news in the morning. that made me sick. these guys definitely need their head cleaned. no matter what the explanation, this is so wrong!
 
raildogg said:
It doesn't matter what I say. I'm just pointing out what we humans are.

We're wiping out species after species. As for hunters, they are glorified killers of animals.
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absolutely false. I'm no hunter and I have never had an interest in shooting animals, but that is enviro-poseur talk right there.
 
zinfamous said:
absolutely false. I'm no hunter and I have never had an interest in shooting animals, but that is enviro-poseur talk right there.
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I don't what enviro-poseur is so I can't comment on that. But are hunters not animal killers? I mean, whatever their "reason" is, they do in fact kill animals.
 
waggy said:
pure ignorance.

without hunters many animal populations would be in worse condition.

now i will say the idiots that shot the cranes are fucking idiotic.
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You might be right. I don't hang out with hunters nor do I want to.

Please explain how shooting endangered birds, endangered large mammals in Africa, wild cats, deer and many other animals helps protect them. I am serious with this question.

The problem isn't hunters though. It's how human beings are in general. If they were truly decent, I doubt there would be any need for any environmental organization or movement. There would be harmony between humans and animals and the Earth.

But then again, humans drop bombs on other humans without any care so killing animals should come easily to them.
 
zinfamous said:
Sure, they kill animals.

Are you a vegan, by chance?
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Not a vegan. I don't eat meat though. I don't have any issue with people who eat meat. Anyway, this isn't important.

I understand that the treatment of cows is inhumane in some cases so consuming dairy products would be supporting the bad practices. But being a vegan is a bit too much for me. But enough about me.

zinfamous, I don't have any contacts with any environmental group nor do I desire to be with them. The problem stems from something far bigger. Environmental problems don't come in a vacuum.
 
surfsatwerk said:
How the hell do you mistake a crane for a goose?
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In flight depending on the angle, and into the sun, it's easier to mistake a crane for a goose than you'd think (I've seen it myself). However, at least in my experience it's almost like cranes know they're endangered because they're abnoxious as hell (DON'T HIT ME I'M A CRANE SEE SQUAAAAK). Much easier to tell a crane from a goose from all the racket they make, but a seasoned hunter who knows that it's bad to shoot cranes will take the extra time to ensure they're not aiming at a crane.

I'm curious, when did you last go goose hunting?
 
raildogg said:
The problem isn't hunters though. It's how human beings are in general. If they were truly decent, I doubt there would be any need for any environmental organization or movement. There would be harmony between humans and animals and the Earth.

But then again, humans drop bombs on other humans without any care so killing animals should come easily to them.
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LOL, humans are animals too, and act no differently from how any animal would act under the same circumstances. Do you think that lions conduct an environmental impact study before they take down a gazelle, and debate the merits of different killing techniques to minimize its pain and suffering?

It's delusional to think that humans have any special moral quality that is not shared by any other species.
 
jagec said:
LOL, humans are animals too, and act no differently from how any animal would act under the same circumstances. Do you think that lions conduct an environmental impact study before they take down a gazelle, and debate the merits of different killing techniques to minimize its pain and suffering?

It's delusional to think that humans have any special moral quality that is not shared by any other species.
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Humans are animals, that is true. We are a living thing on this planet.

However, there are differences.

Lions and cheetahs, for instance, don't drill to the bottom of the ocean to extract oil and destroy the fish. They don't, for instance, hunt for sport. They don't start destroy the oceans.

Lions cannot conduct a study. They're not that stupid. It's we who conduct studies. Lions get hungry and eat their meal. They may hunt a certain way though as to catch their prey.
 
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