Another day, another active shooter - Virginia Beach

[purbeast0]

Ok let's go with that idea. 1. How many shootings percentage wise would this stop? 2. If someone commits a mass shooting after their mental health check, are you going to admit that sometimes horrible things happen and move on or are you going to propose more laws? At what point are you going to admit (if ever) you can't stop every shooting from happening?

You are part of the problem.

 

[Bird222]

You are part of the problem.

I'm not part of the problem because I want to live my life in a supposedly 'free country' and I want anyone who challenges that to prove to me with facts that it is worth it. I'm not part of the problem because I know that crap happens unfortunately. You still didn't answer the question, is there a limit for you? When it comes to gun violence, is there an (for lack of a better term) acceptable loss or will you just keep coming up with more and more laws that are not going to totally eliminate it? This shooting is a prime example. This guy went through the 'process' and still apparently snapped and killed a bunch of people.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

You are part of the problem.

When you propose a solution and people try to anticipate what the consequences will be, that is not ever a part of the problem.

 

[purbeast0]

When you propose a solution and people try to anticipate what the consequences will be, that is not ever a part of the problem.

When you've already decided that there is no solution no matter what anyone says, you are part of the problem. Think where technology would be if that was people's mindsets. We'd still be in the stone ages.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm not part of the problem because I want to live my life in a supposedly 'free country' and I want anyone who challenges that to prove to me with facts that it is worth it. I'm not part of the problem because I know that crap happens unfortunately. You still didn't answer the question, is there a limit for you? When it comes to gun violence, is there an (for lack of a better term) acceptable loss or will you just keep coming up with more and more laws that are not going to totally eliminate it? This shooting is a prime example. This guy went through the 'process' and still apparently snapped and killed a bunch of people.

Yeah and by your "logic" the process can't be changed.

Imagine if the process of allowing people to keep slaves in America was never changed. Or women to vote. Or a bajillion other things that change with the times.

 

[TheVrolok]

I'm not part of the problem because I want to live my life in a supposedly 'free country' and I want anyone who challenges that to prove to me with facts that it is worth it. I'm not part of the problem because I know that crap happens unfortunately. You still didn't answer the question, is there a limit for you? When it comes to gun violence, is there an (for lack of a better term) acceptable loss or will you just keep coming up with more and more laws that are not going to totally eliminate it? This shooting is a prime example. This guy went through the 'process' and still apparently snapped and killed a bunch of people.

The USA is the only "free" country because everyone has guns? Western Europe, Australia, not "free?" That's just an absurd thing to say.

Funny that you want to bring up facts when all available and reliable data suggests owning a gun is LESS safe than owning one. Then, if we wanted more data on a national organizational level, we can't do it (with federal money) because it's illegal for the CDC to do so. Gee.. I wonder why that is?

Answer your own question regarding acceptable losses. Obviously the current level of loss is acceptable. How much further loss before you would become uncomfortable? What's your threshold for action? This is a silly reductionist argument because it supposes that all types of risk/loss are equal and that we cannot act on multiple issues simultaneously. Next you're going to tell me something about how dangerous cars are.

 

[Bird222]

Yeah and by your "logic" the process can't be changed.

Imagine if the process of allowing people to keep slaves in America was never changed. Or women to vote. Or a bajillion other things that change with the times.

I didn't say there is no solution and I didn't say the process can't be changed but you are going to need to show me how it will really make a difference. Like I said, this guy went through the process and it didn't matter he still flipped out and killed a bunch of people. In addition, he didn't use an 'assault weapon' to do it either. He's basically complied with all the gun grabber talking points and it still happened.

 

[ivwshane]

I didn't say there is no solution and I didn't say the process can't be changed but you are going to need to show me how it will really make a difference. Like I said, this guy went through the process and it didn't matter he still flipped out and killed a bunch of people. In addition, he didn't use an 'assault weapon' to do it either. He's basically complied with all the gun grabber talking points and it still happened.

You make a really compelling argument for having an outright ban on guns. The fact that you can't come up with a solution and no one else can either, really only points to one solution.




See: self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Lanyap]

You make a really compelling argument for having an outright ban on guns. The fact that you can't come up with a solution and no one else can either, really only points to one solution.




See: self fulfilling prophecy.

So we ban and confiscate all guns in the US. There will be no more mass shootings since criminals don’t do mass shootings. Then we can focus on the criminals who have illegal guns.

 

[ivwshane]

So we ban and confiscate all guns in the US. There will be no more mass shootings since criminals don’t do mass shootings. Then we can focus on the criminals who have illegal guns.

No but there will be less and less shootings as time goes on and more guns are taken away as opposed to more and more guns being available and more shootings occurring.

I hope you realize how utterly retarded your argument is as your logic basically boils down to, laws are pointless.

 

[ImpulsE69]

When you've already decided that there is no solution no matter what anyone says, you are part of the problem. Think where technology would be if that was people's mindsets. We'd still be in the stone ages.

Ask the Boston marathon bomber what his thoughts are on gun control. Crazy people going to kill, guns, bombs, knives it really doesn't matter. There's a lot more to the problem than a surplus of guns. People get creative. What might slow down is immediate 'temporary insanity' murder/suicides because of time passing, but I expect what will mostly happen is just people dying differently, not less. There's a shit load of unhappy people in this country who like to lash out because people don't agree with them.

There needs to be stricter regulations of some sort, not really clear on what that would actually be that would help. Without search and seizure you can't control what gun owners do with their guns (meaning parents owning guns and their kids taking them). Stricter background checks don't seem to do any good because people can snap at any time.

Let's say they ban guns entirely, our country is probably too lazy to fight a revolution if the government becomes a dictatorship anyway so it probably wouldn't matter. They'd just complain about it on social media while they still could. Make them cost an insane amount of money where only the rich can buy them, you really have the same problem, the rich are in control and the masses are at their will...much like we already are today.

 

[soundforbjt]

Ask the Boston marathon bomber what his thoughts are on gun control. Crazy people going to kill, guns, bombs, knives it really doesn't matter. There's a lot more to the problem than a surplus of guns. People get creative. What might slow down is immediate 'temporary insanity' murder/suicides because of time passing, but I expect what will mostly happen is just people dying differently, not less.

Again, I'll ask the same question as earlier, why is America the only first world country with this problem for the most part?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Again, I'll ask the same question as earlier, why is America the only first world country with this problem for the most part?

In my opinion some of it is culture. Our culture is hugely based on ego and people expecting unearned respect. Our country looks up to people who shouldn't be looked up to and emulates people they shouldn't emulate. Many other countries the culture is to go out of the way to not embarrass people and be humble. That is not the case here. There also seems to be a complete lack of fear of punishment. This comes from my generation trying to be their kids' friends.

This is only one aspect. There is a ton of undiagnosed mental illness because our country is owned by the pharma and insurance companies that have no interest in actually helping anyone.

All of that still only sounds like excuses. There are plenty of us who were bullied and had shitty childhoods that turned out just fine and didn't go on killing sprees and we had plenty of access to guns. The difference ultimately was we were actually scared of the repercussions and when things like this happened it wasn't plastered all over the news. Plenty of us have also been screwed by the man, screwed over a by a chick, etc etc. Unstable people are going to do unstable things. The majority are not.

(oh look I have a stalker) You want some noodies to diddle with your clicker button finger?

 

[ivwshane]

Gun Nutter logic 101: we can't get rid of guns because we are steeped in gun culture. Other countries don't have our gun culture, that's why they could get rid of their guns!

/face palm


Other brilliant gun Nutter logic:
The constitution says we are guaranteed the right to own guns. How else would an authoritarian, democratically elected government be overthrown?!!

The constitution also says the government should put down any insurrection or rebellion.
Seems like we don't have a democracy (a constitutional republic) if it can be dissolved by those who disagree with democratically elected officials, voted in by a majority of the people, if a minority group has enough guns.

Oops

 

[ImpulsE69]

Or...maybe our parents were right and it's the violent movies and videogames 😛

 

[ImpulsE69]

Gun Nutter logic 101: we can't get rid of guns because we are steeped in gun culture. Other countries don't have our gun culture, that's why they could get rid of their guns!

/face palm


Other brilliant gun Nutter logic:
The constitution says we are guaranteed the right to own guns. How else would an authoritarian, democratically elected government be overthrown?!!

The constitution also says the government should put down any insurrection or rebellion.
Seems like we don't have a democracy (a constitutional republic) if it can be dissolved by those who disagree with democratically elected officials, voted in by a majority of the people, if a minority group has enough guns.

Oops

idiot logic is thinking I'm a gun nutter, I don't even own a gun. Nutty is thinking that because you remove access to one thing someone isn't going to find another thing to accomplish the same thing. It's called common sense. Look how well things being illegal in this country has kept people from them. Our country has a pretty pathetic history of actually enforcing laws that people think aren't worthy of being laws.

 

[ivwshane]

idiot logic is thinking I'm a gun nutter, I don't even own a gun. Nutty is thinking that because you remove access to one thing someone isn't going to find another thing to accomplish the same thing. It's called common sense. Look how well things being illegal in this country has kept people from them. Our country has a pretty pathetic history of actually enforcing laws that people think aren't worthy of being laws.

When we have a mass stabbing over here that kills 50+ people and multiple multi (3+) people stabbed on a regular occurrence then you might have a point (feel free to replace the word stabbing with what ever method you can think of).

Btw, you don't have to be a gun Nutter to use gun Nutter logic.

 

[ivwshane]

Or...maybe our parents were right and it's the violent movies and videogames 😛

Do other countries that don't have guns also not had violent movies and video games?

 

[ImpulsE69]

When we have a mass stabbing over here that kills 50+ people and multiple multi (3+) people stabbed on a regular occurrence then you might have a point (feel free to replace the word stabbing with what ever method you can think of).

Btw, you don't have to be a gun Nutter to use gun Nutter logic.

Do you only follow news that fits your emotional agenda?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Do other countries that don't have guns also not had violent movies and video games?

You and others like to use the causation comparison. Are you trying to say the only problem in the US is guns? There's no other issue that could contribute to people going on killing sprees? We're going to conveniently forget decades of mass murders, serial killers, bombers, cults and pretend that all will be well if we could just get rid of those pesky guns. I certainly am not saying guns are not an issue, but there is way more to the equation than just that.

Want to spread FUD? Wait until 3D printers become more cheaper, more capable and widespread. That is something that should really concern you.

 

[ivwshane]

You and others like to use the causation comparison. Are you trying to say the only problem in the US is guns? There's no other issue that could contribute to people going on killing sprees? We're going to conveniently forget decades of mass murders, serial killers, bombers, cults and pretend that all will be well if we could just get rid of those pesky guns. I certainly am not saying guns are not an issue, but there is way more to the equation than just that.

Then I suggest you get to posting some links to validate your claim. You can start by showing us how the examples you listed are worse in the US vs anywhere else in the world that doesn't have gun violence as prevalent as here.

 

[dawp]

What would you propose? He already had background checks to buy guns legally, he used handguns (i.e. not the big bad AR-15 'assault weapon'), and it was in a 'gun-free zone' (hmm somehow that didn't matter). I guess you could go for confiscation.

he had large capacity magazines so he could shoot longer uninterrupted, if he had to reload more frequently fewer people might have been killed.

 

[ivwshane]

he had large capacity magazines so he could shoot longer uninterrupted, if he had to reload more frequently fewer people might have been killed.

Didn't he also have a suppressor, so people were unable to tell how close the shooter was?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Didn't he also have a suppressor, so people were unable to tell how close the shooter was?

He did yes.

 

[Bird222]

In my opinion some of it is culture. Our culture is hugely based on ego and people expecting unearned respect. Our country looks up to people who shouldn't be looked up to and emulates people they shouldn't emulate. Many other countries the culture is to go out of the way to not embarrass people and be humble. That is not the case here. There also seems to be a complete lack of fear of punishment. This comes from my generation trying to be their kids' friends.

This is only one aspect. There is a ton of undiagnosed mental illness because our country is owned by the pharma and insurance companies that have no interest in actually helping anyone.

All of that still only sounds like excuses. There are plenty of us who were bullied and had shitty childhoods that turned out just fine and didn't go on killing sprees and we had plenty of access to guns. The difference ultimately was we were actually scared of the repercussions and when things like this happened it wasn't plastered all over the news. Plenty of us have also been screwed by the man, screwed over a by a chick, etc etc. Unstable people are going to do unstable things. The majority are not.

(oh look I have a stalker) You want some noodies to diddle with your clicker button finger?

Just to piggyback on the culture point. I think alot of Americans have a strong spirit of self-determination. We want to 'do it' ourselves. Tie this with the very personal feelings about self-defense and you have this great gun debate. I do think something has changed with the mental health of people. My understanding from older people were that even teenagers back in the day had rifles/shotguns in trucks at school and there didn't seem to have a problem with people going on shooting rampages. Are we getting less mental health treatment these days? Are the drugs people are on setting them off? I don't know but I think something is different. Also, hello to all the haters out there who can't seem to read an opposing opinion without downvoting it. lol