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ANOTHER bad guy with a gun story

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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
This sums up the situation


Heart wrenching. As a father, I can only imagine and I don't want to. How do you propose this guy would have been stopped? How would you have made it so this ex service member wouldn't have been able to buy a handgun and do this?
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
4,742
1,162
136
12 people died in "this one". https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html

To make it a little more real, I live less than a mile from this place. My daughter heard the gun shots. This is the same girl that was going to UCSB when that shooting happened and she knew one of the girls that died.

Oh yeah I know two people that were at the Las Vegas shooting.
I grew up in camarillo, just over the hill. Friend of mine from high school lost her son.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,517
1,826
136
Heart wrenching. As a father, I can only imagine and I don't want to. How do you propose this guy would have been stopped? How would you have made it so this ex service member wouldn't have been able to buy a handgun and do this?
I don't know what the answer is. Neither do you. It's a complicated issue with nuances that needs experts to tease out. The gun issue is akin to global warming, or healthcare, or our education issues. Its a massive problem with no simple solution that will satisfy everyone.

I think as a populace we should first try and not make the gun issue as politically charged as crazies on TV make it out to be so that state and federal congresses can actually work on it.
The NRA basically wins the gun debate by not even allowing debate to occur.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,230
21,273
146
Heart wrenching. As a father, I can only imagine and I don't want to. How do you propose this guy would have been stopped? How would you have made it so this ex service member wouldn't have been able to buy a handgun and do this?
It's complicated and you are woefully incapable of providing a serviceable solution, or suggestion, as proven time and time again around here.

You, and your ilk, should just sit the fuck down and stay out of the conversation, and let adults fix your shitty child problems for you. Because you obviously can't do it. No amount of adult conversation gets through to you, and everyone is sick of going out of their way trying to treat you with respect. You, and your ilk. There is no point to it.

So, sit the fuck down. Take your scum with you, and let the adults fix your disease.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,734
400
136
I don't know what the answer is. Neither do you. It's a complicated issue with nuances that needs experts to tease out. The gun issue is akin to global warming, or healthcare, or our education issues. Its a massive problem with no simple solution that will satisfy everyone.
You're right, this is complex. No one or two or any number of solutions will completely eliminate gun murders. IMO you have to start with low hanging fruit. As in what is a law(s) we could pass that would drastically reduce gun murders without severe negative consequences?

Ending the war on drugs would be a very productive first start. That couldn't have prevented this particular shooting, but could save far more lives than were taken in this incident. As for mass shootings, I'd like to better understand why so many of them involve someone on certain types of anti-depressant drugs and if there are better ways to administer these drugs or better alternative treatments altogether.

I think as a populace we should first try and not make the gun issue as politically charged as crazies on TV make it out to be so that state and federal congresses can actually work on it. The NRA basically wins the gun debate by not even allowing debate to occur.
Much of this debate will NEVER happen if it centers on taking things away from people who never used them to hurt anybody. That will always be a hard sell. There are potentially great solutions to a significant portion of this violence without harming people who have never hurt anybody.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,660
10,008
136
You're right, this is complex. No one or two or any number of solutions will completely eliminate gun murders. IMO you have to start with low hanging fruit. As in what is a law(s) we could pass that would drastically reduce gun murders without severe negative consequences?

Ending the war on drugs would be a very productive first start. That couldn't have prevented this particular shooting, but could save far more lives than were taken in this incident. As for mass shootings, I'd like to better understand why so many of them involve someone on certain types of anti-depressant drugs and if there are better ways to administer these drugs or better alternative treatments altogether.



Much of this debate will NEVER happen if it centers on taking things away from people who never used them to hurt anybody. That will always be a hard sell. There are potentially great solutions to a significant portion of this violence without harming people who have never hurt anybody.
Which brings us to another low hanging fruit, those involved in domestic violence or any violence should lose their right to own guns.
 
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Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,734
400
136
Which brings us to another low hanging fruit, those involved in domestic violence or any violence should lose their right to own guns.
To me that is a great proposal and should be implemented in some form. Not enforcing weak, catchall words such as "any" or "involved in" but sure, violent people rarely make responsible gun owners.

Yet this is not low hanging fruit in that it is not a fast, big win. I would suspect that the number of gun murders we could successfully prevent with such laws would be eliminated by rounding to the nearest %. Which would make this the shriveled-up fruit at the top of the tree that we should eventually get to after picking all the abundant, juicy, ripe fruit that hangs low just ready to be picked. You know, that sweet, sweet nectar of eliminating the war on drugs and treating addiction as a medical issue instead of an assrape-them-in-prison-and-ruin-their-fucking-future issue.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,734
400
136
It's complicated and you are woefully incapable of providing a serviceable solution, or suggestion, as proven time and time again around here.

You, and your ilk, should just sit the fuck down and stay out of the conversation, and let adults fix your shitty child problems for you. Because you obviously can't do it. No amount of adult conversation gets through to you, and everyone is sick of going out of their way trying to treat you with respect. You, and your ilk. There is no point to it.

So, sit the fuck down. Take your scum with you, and let the adults fix your disease.
I've finally found him: Mr. Wonderful! Congrats on being a really great dude!!! I look forward to hearing more logical and persuasive arguments from you in the future. You even used the word "ilk" a whole lot...radLOL!
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,155
7,737
146
Heart wrenching. As a father, I can only imagine and I don't want to. How do you propose this guy would have been stopped? How would you have made it so this ex service member wouldn't have been able to buy a handgun and do this?
Aren’t you the same guy who created a thread just before this shooting whining that a state enacted a red flag law that allowed law enforcement to seize the guns from someone deemed to be a potential immediate threat to himself or others because a man who turned out to be a threat to himself or others was killed by police after going for a gun they were there to seize?

Tell us again how you want proactive approaches to preventing gun violence.
 
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Stopsignhank

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2014
1,993
862
136
I grew up in camarillo, just over the hill. Friend of mine from high school lost her son.
ACHS class of 1983. So sorry to hear about your friends son.

You know we saw a new story about someone who had a horrible thing happen and she said she got tired of people asking "is there anything I can do" She said, don't give me an assignment, just do it." So instead of asking your friend if they would like you to make them dinner, just do it and bring it to them.

Sorry off my soap box. You all can go back to your hand waving and arguing.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,415
4,047
126
The news was so depressing last night, I just went to bed early... earlier than explainable by going to standard time.

1. 12 killed, CBS evening news with Jeff Glor (on site) didn't even mention the 20 some wounded as if they didn't exist. Just the dead. Like it isn't a tragedy to be shot and survive???? Briefly, they acknowledged that there's an "epidemic" of mass shootings in the country in the last couple weeks. Not one word about gun control, though.

2. A wild fire 150 miles from me that started at 6:30AM and had already destroyed a whole town spewed smoke directly into the Bay Area where I live. I didn't even find out until I watched the news and had just spent an hour outside doing yard work. Wondered why I was coughing so much again. I've had a cold for a week, damn, wish I could have found out about the bad air... I don't watch TV all day, most days not at all. It was Nov. 8, for fuck's sake. Can you say "global warming?"

3. Protests in dozens of cities all over the country because Trump is throwing a noose around the Mueller investigation.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,415
4,047
126
Your title kind of sucks. I was about to post this here because I didn't see a thread about it then saw your "parody" of a title.

Anyways, this is pretty tragic and I am interested to hear more about the suspect when it comes out and what the motive was.
People always talk about motive. I think even using that word fosters misconceptions when it comes to murder. Killers are killers, they are angry, they hate, they are unhinged, they act out. They are not cold and calculating, which is what the word "motive" suggests.

This guy was angry. He was a handful. They'd hear him yelling, presumably at his mother, who he lived with in her house. He'd been a machine gunner in the Marines in Afghanistan in 2011 or so. A neighbor would wave at him sometimes when the guy would drive by but was always ignored. He was seething. He kept it inside. It came out of his Glock yesterday, from a high capacity magazine. What was his motive? HE DIDN'T HAVE A GODDAMN MOTIVE. He was a killer... they're all the same. "Killing is killing by any name."

He was interviewed some months ago after an incident at his house and they decided not to put him in a 72 hour detention to determine if he was safe. That was a mistake. It allowed him to legally own his Glock. I don't think YOU should be allowed to own a Glock, much less that guy.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,415
4,047
126
Tell us again how you want proactive approaches to preventing gun violence.
I'm not speaking for him, but I'll speak again for myself. I think nobody period should be allowed to own a gun. They should not be allowed to keep guns on their premises. Yeah, I've thought through all the ramifications and I will be happy to do so again for any protestors. Maybe you've seen my posts before... This is very doable. It would not only prevent these things from happening it would let people relax and enjoy. Right now, there's no such thing as safety anywhere in the USA. YOU ARE NEVER SAFE.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,926
3,814
136
You're right, this is complex. No one or two or any number of solutions will completely eliminate gun murders. IMO you have to start with low hanging fruit. As in what is a law(s) we could pass that would drastically reduce gun murders without severe negative consequences?

Ending the war on drugs would be a very productive first start. That couldn't have prevented this particular shooting, but could save far more lives than were taken in this incident. As for mass shootings, I'd like to better understand why so many of them involve someone on certain types of anti-depressant drugs and if there are better ways to administer these drugs or better alternative treatments altogether.
I think the anti-depressant connection is a red-herring. There are many mass shootings where the shooter isn't on them, and a vast number of people on them who don't go on killing-sprees. Plus what overlap there is, is at first glance probably explainable by confounding factors (i.e. correlation not causation). Though I am personally skeptical about psychiatric medication (I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies or the psychiatric profession) and am far from convinced they do more good than harm, I don't see they are of much importance in the larger picture, not least because they are just as commonly used in countries that don't have these mass shooting incidents.


Much of this debate will NEVER happen if it centers on taking things away from people who never used them to hurt anybody. That will always be a hard sell. There are potentially great solutions to a significant portion of this violence without harming people who have never hurt anybody.
Though you are assuming 'taking guns away' is a meaningful form of 'harm'. I don't see that is necessarily the case. People are denied all sorts of things and don't seem to suffer much harm as a consequence. There are always constraints to life in a society.

More to the point, I don't think you can say it will 'never' happen. It depends largely on numbers, I would have thought. When that group is a very small one the 'sell' becomes a lot easier. Probably at the moment there are still too many folk emotionally attached to their firearms.
 
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Stopsignhank

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2014
1,993
862
136
The news was so depressing last night, I just went to bed early... earlier than explainable by going to standard time.

1. 12 killed, CBS evening news with Jeff Glor (on site) didn't even mention the 20 some wounded as if they didn't exist. Just the dead. Like it isn't a tragedy to be shot and survive???? Briefly, they acknowledged that there's an "epidemic" of mass shootings in the country in the last couple weeks. Not one word about gun control, though.

2. A wild fire 150 miles from me that started at 6:30AM and had already destroyed a whole town spewed smoke directly into the Bay Area where I live. I didn't even find out until I watched the news and had just spent an hour outside doing yard work. Wondered why I was coughing so much again. I've had a cold for a week, damn, wish I could have found out about the bad air... I don't watch TV all day, most days not at all. It was Nov. 8, for fuck's sake. Can you say "global warming?"

3. Protests in dozens of cities all over the country because Trump is throwing a noose around the Mueller investigation.
FYI. The area by the Borderline where the shooting happened is under mandatory evacuation because of wild fires.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,660
10,008
136
To me that is a great proposal and should be implemented in some form. Not enforcing weak, catchall words such as "any" or "involved in" but sure, violent people rarely make responsible gun owners.

Yet this is not low hanging fruit in that it is not a fast, big win. I would suspect that the number of gun murders we could successfully prevent with such laws would be eliminated by rounding to the nearest %. Which would make this the shriveled-up fruit at the top of the tree that we should eventually get to after picking all the abundant, juicy, ripe fruit that hangs low just ready to be picked. You know, that sweet, sweet nectar of eliminating the war on drugs and treating addiction as a medical issue instead of an assrape-them-in-prison-and-ruin-their-fucking-future issue.
You think think half of the mass shootings that are perpetrated by people with domestic violence record would have barely been affected by such laws? Is that what your gut tells you?
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,155
7,737
146
Shooters last Facebook post.... sounds awfully familiar...

"I hope people call me insane... (laughing emojis).. wouldn't that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah.. I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is 'hopes and prayers'.. or 'keep you in my thoughts'... every time... and wonder why these keep happening..."
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
10,728
1,192
126
So many angry white guys.

Why? Was this guy pissed that he didn't have a girlfriend? What gives.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
33,940
12,753
146
So many angry white guys.

Why? Was this guy pissed that he didn't have a girlfriend? What gives.
Woah woah woah, hold on there. You're dangerously close to infringing on my 2A rights. Even the mere discussion will mean the end of America.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,993
1,679
126
immigrants are, by far, safer and better citizens than your average priveliged white conservative asshole.

It's a simple goddamn fact. Data sits on the side of the truth. Sucks that you don't care. Sucks that your feels put you in a losing battle against the world around you.

But that's your problem.

Hell, I'd rather live next to 1k central american illegals than a single fucking sociopath like SlowSpider. Fuck that obvious asshole, bigoted fake American.
LMAO at the "Why don't you take them in" people. The Tree of Life congregation was literally doing just that. My dad hired a Syrian refugee last year. He hasn't done any terrorism yet, but we're keeping an eye on him.

Fuck do these MAGA chuds know, except racism and hate?
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,517
1,826
136
Much of this debate will NEVER happen if it centers on taking things away from people who never used them to hurt anybody. That will always be a hard sell. There are potentially great solutions to a significant portion of this violence without harming people who have never hurt anybody.
But to fixate on the perceived harms "of taking away things from people who never used them to hurt anybody" is part of the gun hysteria.
We don't have that level of hysteria about anything else and its whats preventing even minor things being done that may not even have anything to do with removing owned guns from people.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,415
4,047
126
But to fixate on the perceived harms "of taking away things from people who never used them to hurt anybody" is part of the gun hysteria.
We don't have that level of hysteria about anything else and its whats preventing even minor things being done that may not even have anything to do with removing owned guns from people.
Get a clue. Guns are for directing projectiles at supersonic speeds, dense projectiles so fast that you can't see them and when they hit living humans or animals they tear into the flesh and do catastrophic damage. That's what guns do, that's what they are for. You go to a gun range and you're just practicing for your carnage events, sucker. You keep them around and they are always whispering in your ear, "pick me up, direct me at living breathing potential victims, pull the trigger... kill, KILL, KILL!!!"

Mass shootings are happening practically every day now in the USA. It is an epidemic. It's gotten worse and worse. Americans are numb... NUMB!

I saw an ad by the NRA where the actor they hired (big muscular macho white male American on an outdoor target range) said that logically what the anti-gun folks want to do ultimately is take away all the guns. Guess what? That's exactly what I think we need to do (I'm the NRA's worst nightmare). All of them. What guns there are should only be accessible to people who are virtually certain to use them responsibly. Trained and vetted personnel and even they should only have access to them in specific monitored situations and then returned to safe keeping.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,415
4,047
126
Woah woah woah, hold on there. You're dangerously close to infringing on my 2A rights. Even the mere discussion will mean the end of America.
Yeah, well, fuck America if by that you mean gun-toting America. I want a kinder, gentler America where you don't have to think you might be in the middle of a mass shooting event anywhere you go. I know, you were being facetious, I don't think you are packing ... or are you?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,415
4,047
126
This sums up the situation

Agreed. That guy Doer, I saw a previous video he did. He's very up front and puts together great videos. He said it again and again. "It's the guns." Realize it or keep denying it, it's up to you. You know it already. You either acknowledge it, or continue to deny it. It's up to you.
 

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