Anjem Choudary arrested for encouraging support for ISIS

[Orignal Earl]

So all it took for you was a single article saying S.A. used to support ISIS?

That is a pretty low bar to set is it not?

No, there has been hundreds of articles
The Iraqi president has accused SA

 

[realibrad]

No, there has been hundreds of articles
The Iraqi president has accused SA

Do you mind providing one that gives a logical explanation of why they think S.A. is funding ISIS or an article that has evidence?

Which Iraqi president? There has been a few, and one believed the world was out to get him.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Do you mind providing one that gives a logical explanation of why they think S.A. is funding ISIS or an article that has evidence?

Which Iraqi president? There has been a few, and one believed the world was out to get him.

Man..you really need things spelled out for you eh
I hope you can find your way around this site without any additional help

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/funding-isis-infographic

This is the Iraqi president that accused SA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouri_al-Maliki

 

[Orignal Earl]

Man..you really need things spelled out for you eh
I hope you can find your way around this site without any additional help

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/funding-isis-infographic

This is the Iraqi president that accused SA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouri_al-Maliki

Prime Minister, but we both knew that eh

 

[realibrad]

Man..you really need things spelled out for you eh
I hope you can find your way around this site without any additional help

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/funding-isis-infographic

This is the Iraqi president that accused SA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouri_al-Maliki

So, you did something amazing. That first link has a source for the part where it says "Saudi funding of ISIS". I would bet that is where you stopped reading. If you were to click that link, guess what article it links to...? The link I provided earlier about how the government DID NOT fund ISIS. Feel free to click the link and read it. Too funny.

Now, for Nouri al-Maliki. He was pretty paranoid and is the one that I figured you would use. Frontline did a great segment about that guy and I would not take what he has to say as truth.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/losing-iraq/

Maliki did not like Sunnis and tried to push them out of the government. He likely would not be afraid to blame S.A. for anything.

So, you gave 2 links. One link was something you did not understand, and the other did not give credibility.

Do you have anything of substance for your claim? You said there were hundreds of articles, but I did not find one and you have not provided anything. I hope you don't just give up, and can actually back up your claim.

 

[Orignal Earl]

So, you did something amazing. That first link has a source for the part where it says "Saudi funding of ISIS". I would bet that is where you stopped reading. If you were to click that link, guess what article it links to...? The link I provided earlier about how the government DID NOT fund ISIS. Feel free to click the link and read it. Too funny.

Now, for Nouri al-Maliki. He was pretty paranoid and is the one that I figured you would use. Frontline did a great segment about that guy and I would not take what he has to say as truth.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/losing-iraq/

Maliki did not like Sunnis and tried to push them out of the government. He likely would not be afraid to blame S.A. for anything.

So, you gave 2 links. One link was something you did not understand, and the other did not give credibility.

Do you have anything of substance for your claim? You said there were hundreds of articles, but I did not find one and you have not provided anything. I hope you don't just give up, and can actually back up your claim.

Looks like we are back to everything I have already posted, no smoking gun etc.
If you want to keep repeating it, I don't care I'll play your silly game, but man it's kind of crazy

I wasn't stating it was an absolute fact though right

I was suggesting to read up on how Saudi could be funding Daesh

 

[realibrad]

Looks like we are back to everything I have already posted, no smoking gun etc.
If you want to keep repeating it, I don't care I'll play your silly game, but man it's kind of crazy

I have been asking for the reason you believe S.A.

Is it possible, yes, but many things are possible that you don't believe. You said your statement because you believe something is there. The logical context of your statement is that you believe S.A. is funding or was funding ISIS.

Do you believe S.A. is or has funded ISIS?
If so, why do you believe S.A. is or has funded ISIS?

 

[Orignal Earl]

I have been asking for the reason you believe S.A.

Is it possible, yes, but many things are possible that you don't believe. You said your statement because you believe something is there. The logical context of your statement is that you believe S.A. is funding or was funding ISIS.

Do you believe S.A. is or has funded ISIS?
If so, why do you believe S.A. is or has funded ISIS?

I made my post "Google Daesh Saudi funding" in reply to davmat787's post "Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family give daesh a run for their money in the biggest gang in the Middle East title race lol?"

What you see there is two adults shooting the shit

You became fixated on my post and your need to constantly prove me wrong kicked in.
It's all good and somewhat entertaining

 

[realibrad]

I made my post "Google Daesh Saudi funding" in reply to davmat787's post "Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family give daesh a run for their money in the biggest gang in the Middle East title race lol?"

What you see there is two adults shooting the shit

You became fixated on my post and your need to constantly prove me wrong kicked in.
It's all good and somewhat entertaining

What was the point of saying to google that though? Were you trying to imply there was a link between the 2? Did you want him to google random things?

You very often post things that are ambiguous that have implicit meanings. Rarely have I seen you say anything explicitly. So when I ask you direct questions like I did in the previous post you will not answer them. I have you 2 very simple direct questions, and you completely avoided them. Answering those 2 questions would likely give me what I was looking for. You are in no way obligated to give me anything, but, the fact that you are willing to take the time to deflect has some meaning to how you feel I believe.

 

[Orignal Earl]

What was the point of saying to google that though? Were you trying to imply there was a link between the 2? Did you want him to google random things?

I made my post "Google Daesh Saudi funding" in reply to davmat787's post "Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family give daesh a run for their money in the biggest gang in the Middle East title race lol?"

What you see there is two adults shooting the shit

Google Daesh Saudi funding is not random things

You stated that you believe SA supports terrorist groups, what makes you believe that and what's the difference between that and Daesh

 

[realibrad]

Google Daesh Saudi funding is not random things

I know you telling someone to google things was not random. You had a purpose in the suggestion. What I don't understand was the purpose. You said you were not trying to imply that S.A. was funding Daesh, but then you support why it might be. That to me is very confusing.

You stated that you believe SA supports terrorist groups, what makes you believe that and what's the difference between that and Daesh

Yes, I believe S.A. supports terrorists. They support terrorists that further their agenda. Daesh does not qualify for that, which is why I question your claims.

I really doubt that you think all terrorists groups are the same, so I am even more confused by that statement. I would bet that S.A. never funded the IRA, and that was a terrorist group.

Do you think S.A. is or has funded Daesh?
If so, why do you believe S.A. is or has funded Daesh?
Why do you choose not to answer those questions?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes, I believe S.A. supports terrorists. They support terrorists that further their agenda. Daesh does not qualify for that, which is why I question your claims.

I really doubt that you think all terrorists groups are the same, so I am even more confused by that statement. I would bet that S.A. never funded the IRA, and that was a terrorist group.

Do you think S.A. is or has funded Daesh?
If so, why do you believe S.A. is or has funded Daesh?
Why do you choose not to answer those questions?

Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism,[97] which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia

I don't know if they do or don't. I guess that's why you think I "refuse" to answer your question.
Why don't you think Daesh furthers their agenda?

 

[realibrad]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia

I don't know if they do or don't. I guess that's why you think I "refuse" to answer your question.
Why don't you think Daesh furthers their agenda?

If you don't know if they do or don't then what was the point of not implicitly saying they do or might? Why did you pick S.A. and not Mexico?

The reason I doubt S.A. funding Daesh, is because Daesh wants to take over S.A. Those in power want to stay in power, and would not support a group that want to take that away.

S.A. fund Sunni terrorist groups, but only to further their own power. They want smaller terrorist groups to disrupt and do shit, without challenging S.A.'s power. ISIS is a group that wants to take over and establish a new power in the region.

But, back to the questions I asked.

You don't "know" if S.A. funded or is funding ISIS. I take that to mean you don't have definitive proof. Do you have a logical reason for thinking they might be?

If so, then the 2nd question still has not been answered.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Do you have a logical reason for thinking they might be?

If so, then the 2nd question still has not been answered.

US Vice President Joe Biden openly admits at a speech in Harvard University that ISIS terrorists were armed and funded by Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLYTG2kCUu0

 

[realibrad]

US Vice President Joe Biden openly admits at a speech in Harvard University that ISIS terrorists were armed and funded by Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLYTG2kCUu0

So after all of that, you come back with "proof" to back up your claim. It sure does seem like you think S.A. funded ISIS, even though you said you were not sure what you thought.

Anyway, Biden's comments are not all that clear. The point that Biden was making is that S.A. funded terrorists groups that either became ISIS or supplied ISIS. To me, funding Sunni terrorists that eventually become ISIS is not the same as funding ISIS if the funding stopped when ISIS formed.

I already agreed that S.A. was funding Sunni terrorists. They did this as a way to increase their power in the region by fighting proxy wars. Once the people who left Syria to go into Iraq, the funding stopped for the most part, because S.A. was funding fighters in Syria. If you want to say that in a round about way S.A. funded ISIS then maybe.

 

[Orignal Earl]

So after all of that, you come back with "proof" to back up your claim. It sure does seem like you think S.A. funded ISIS, even though you said you were not sure what you thought.

Anyway, Biden's comments are not all that clear. The point that Biden was making is that S.A. funded terrorists groups that either became ISIS or supplied ISIS. To me, funding Sunni terrorists that eventually become ISIS is not the same as funding ISIS if the funding stopped when ISIS formed.

I already agreed that S.A. was funding Sunni terrorists. They did this as a way to increase their power in the region by fighting proxy wars. Once the people who left Syria to go into Iraq, the funding stopped for the most part, because S.A. was funding fighters in Syria. If you want to say that in a round about way S.A. funded ISIS then maybe.

I was just working my way down my "google saudi daesh funding" search.
It's messed up yours did not work

He noted that “Saudi Arabia is the one logically funding the 'Daesh”

http://www.islamtimes.org/en/doc/article/382261/

 

[realibrad]

I was just working my way down my "google saudi daesh funding" search.
It's messed up yours did not work



http://www.islamtimes.org/en/doc/article/382261/

That last article is useless. Nothing as a source so none of it can be verified or corroborated in any way. Further, its another Iraqi source it seems, and as I explained, Iraq does not like S.A. mainly do to the fact that S.A. is Sunni and Iraq is mainly Shia.

Out of that entire article, I could only find claims and hardly anything that could be verified. There are not names either, so you cant look up the people that made the claim.

Do you have anything better?

 

[Orignal Earl]

That last article is useless. Nothing as a source so none of it can be verified or corroborated in any way. Further, its another Iraqi source it seems, and as I explained, Iraq does not like S.A. mainly do to the fact that S.A. is Sunni and Iraq is mainly Shia.

Out of that entire article, I could only find claims and hardly anything that could be verified. There are not names either, so you cant look up the people that made the claim.

Do you have anything better?

How Does ISIS Fund Its Reign of Terror?

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-282607.html

 

[realibrad]

How Does ISIS Fund Its Reign of Terror?

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-282607.html

Maybe I am reading a different article, but where does its say the Saudi government funded or is funding ISIS?

The closest thing I see is this.

Grossing as much as $40 million or more over the past two years, ISIS has accepted funding from government or private sources in the oil-rich nations of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait—and a large network of private donors, including Persian Gulf royalty, businessmen and wealthy families.

It could mean that S.A. was sending money, or it could mean private people in S.A. could have sent money. The article does not explain either way.

 

[woolfe9998]

The very notion that free speech needs a line drawn demonstrates a total lack of qualifications and objectivity regarding the subject, which you also go onto say that only liberals could possess to draw the line in question lol.

Unlike you I won't fall into the mentally lazy trap of viewing all conservatives or liberals monolithically.

So my remarks are strictly for you and do not apply to all identifying as liberal. 😉

In the US, we draw lots of "lines" on free speech. They are different and usually wider lines than in the UK, but lines nonetheless. They're called: obscenities, kiddy porn, fighting words, defamation, threats, false advertising, etc.

The main difference is we tend to stay away from criminalizing any sort of political speech, while in the UK they may criminalize political speech if it relates to violent extremism, even if the speech doesn't directly advocate violence, i.e. advocating joining a violent organization is deemed close enough to advocating violence directly.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Maybe I am reading a different article, but where does its say the Saudi government funded or is funding ISIS?

The closest thing I see is this.


It could mean that S.A. was sending money, or it could mean private people in S.A. could have sent money. The article does not explain either way.

The “State Sponsors” of ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey: Why are they No Subject to Sanctions?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-st...hy-are-they-no-subjected-to-sanctions/5403310

Why does Saudi Arabia fund the ISIS?

http://www.oneindia.com/feature/why-does-saudi-arabia-fund-the-isis-1791158.html

 

[realibrad]

The “State Sponsors” of ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey: Why are they No Subject to Sanctions?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-st...hy-are-they-no-subjected-to-sanctions/5403310

Why does Saudi Arabia fund the ISIS?

http://www.oneindia.com/feature/why-does-saudi-arabia-fund-the-isis-1791158.html

Again, both articles you listed are very ambiguous about their claims, and do nothing to back them up. Again, the articles you listed include S.A. in a group and does not explain if all in the group are doing the same thing.

give explanations ranging from outright admissions that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, and Turkey are directly arming, funding, aiding and abetting ISIS, to descriptions that read like an immense money laundering operation, to ridiculous claims including “ransom payments” and “robbed banks” have been behind ISIS’ regional rise to menace.

You keep spitting out articles that you googled, but these articles are not the reason you believe what you believe. I am all for the information, but again, my questions were not about what you could find.

Do you believe S.A. has or is funding ISIS?
If so, why do you believe S.A. has or is funding ISIS?

For you to answer the 2nd question, you would need to explain why you believe S.A. to do what they have or are doing. The articles you are now providing are things you are looking for after you came to your belief. Do you remember what made you believe this in the first place?

 

[justoh]

Oh I see now, we got ourselves our very own Muslim fanatic.

Where does this hostility come from? We're all the same. I just want to earn a decent living, own a home, marry a suitably modest woman, retire early, and watch the kids blow up.

 

[Abwx]

So after all of that, you come back with "proof" to back up your claim. It sure does seem like you think S.A. funded ISIS, even though you said you were not sure what you thought.

Anyway, Biden's comments are not all that clear. The point that Biden was making is that S.A. funded terrorists groups that either became ISIS or supplied ISIS. To me, funding Sunni terrorists that eventually become ISIS is not the same as funding ISIS if the funding stopped when ISIS formed.

I already agreed that S.A. was funding Sunni terrorists. They did this as a way to increase their power in the region by fighting proxy wars. Once the people who left Syria to go into Iraq, the funding stopped for the most part, because S.A. was funding fighters in Syria. If you want to say that in a round about way S.A. funded ISIS then maybe.

Saudi freed their criminal inmates if they agreed to go to Syria fight the legal government..

In Saudi Arabia, however, there were no breakouts: criminals serving jail sentences were released from the kingdom’s prisons on condition they join the Syrian jihad.
A top secret memo sent by the Ministry of Interior in Saudi Arabia “reveals the Saudi Kingdom sent death-row inmates, sentenced to execution by decapitation, to Syria to fight Jihad against the Syrian government in exchange for commuting their sentences.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/convic...ates-replenish-al-qaeda-ranks/5369055?print=1

 

[realibrad]

Saudi freed their criminal inmates if they agreed to go to Syria fight the legal government..



http://www.globalresearch.ca/convic...ates-replenish-al-qaeda-ranks/5369055?print=1

I am sure you are coming to this late. The issue is not if S.A. funds terrorism or supports them, they do. I do not question that fact.

The claim that Earl made is that S.A. funds or has funded ISIS and where he got his information from.