Angry Apple Rant

[AnthroAndStargate]

:disgust: So I go to lunch today, my network and Time Capsule are working fine. Come home and the internet is out. Look at the TC, light is off. Unplug it and plug it in. Dead. Hard boot it. Dead. Ugh.

So I take it to the Apple store and the "Genuis" goes "Oh wow, I've never seen one do this. I don't know what to do, let me try to plug it in. *Nothing*. Uhmmm.. OK We will replace it."

Me: Can I get the data off?

Her: It wont turn on. So I guess not.

Me: Can I pry it open and get the data off myself?

Her: Maybe. I don't know if we would take it back then.

She then precedes to tell me they will ship one to the Apple store and I can get it in 4-5 days. I go home really ticked off and call Apple Care to have them ship it to my house to go back. (BIG MISTAKE). The guy informs me that it wont be here till Friday, I ask for expedited shipping since I would have gotten it Tuesday at the Apple store, he says they cant do it. He then takes my credit card so they can charge me if they dont get the old one back (understandable but still, irritating). He informs me that he doesn't know if I can take the hard drive out to get my data off and he "wants to say yes" but isnt sure.

I know this isn't the worst Apple story and I don't mean to be a crybaby (trust me I LOVE Apple) but its times like this I get so frustrated with them. I had a similar problem on my new 2 week old MBP (the corrupt sectors issue where you cant install Bootcamp) and they just shrugged and said who knows.

I think they should do a little more when critical things (like your back up solution) fail and you loose all your back ups. So now I'm unsure if I should pry it open or cry.

 

[Kmax82]

Call me crazy but where would you put the backups if you had access to them? Just curious... and sorry about all the issues you had.

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

Originally posted by: Kmax82
Call me crazy but where would you put the backups if you had access to them? Just curious... and sorry about all the issues you had.

Good question. I have about a terrabyte of external hard drive storage so I would have just thrown it in one of my externals and then copied it to my other 500gig.

What really irks me is the nonchalant attitude Apple takes. Backups failing = serious issue. Most people dont keep triple backups and assume the TC is all they need. Apparently its not.

 

[Kaido]

Sigh. This is why I have a Hackintosh computer and a FreeNAS server at home. I can work on my own equipment if it breaks and I KNOW it's going to work correctly. Even when Apple's service is good, you're still working with some hourly kid who doesn't really care. Despite their advertising, Apple doesn't care about you, nor do it's workers. At least their products are pretty +

 

[aphex]

This has been one thing that has kept me away from the TC. Its a great little device, it really is, but having a non-user accessible HD is just too risky IMO.

 

[Zaap]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Sigh. This is why I have a Hackintosh computer and a FreeNAS server at home. I can work on my own equipment if it breaks and I KNOW it's going to work correctly. Even when Apple's service is good, you're still working with some hourly kid who doesn't really care. Despite their advertising, Apple doesn't care about you, nor do it's workers. At least their products are pretty +

Same here- just substitute Linux server for FreeNAS.

The Time Capsule doesn't seem like a bad deal, especially buying the 500GB model and installing a 1TB hard drive yourself.

This is another of those cases where Apple pretends in 'whole widget' nonsense-fashion that it's a big deal just to open something up, and take a damn hard drive out. Heaven forbid consumers would discover the standard Seagate hard drive and not the magic Apple one. A real 'genius' would just grab a screwdriver, crack the case, hand you your drive, and replace the faulty hardware.

If Apple made cars, it wouldn't have a hood that opened, and they'd encase the bottom in plastic. They'd charge you $150 for an Apple-store-only oil change, and make you send your car off for 4 or 5 days to change a spark plug.

 

[Parasitic]

Why didnt they just give you a new one right on the spot? My last product replacements were all swapped out right in the store.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: aphex
This has been one thing that has kept me away from the TC. Its a great little device, it really is, but having a non-user accessible HD is just too risky IMO.

agreed. Which is why I wish the air disk thing worked more reliably. I had a freenas server, but killed it because I hate having that extra computer on all the time.

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
Why didnt they just give you a new one right on the spot? My last product replacements were all swapped out right in the store.

No clue, I should have asked :brokenheart: Too late now I suppose

 

[hiromizu]

What the hell kind of backup system requires a replacement of the entire device? That's a bit..ridiculous to say the least. So you've completely lost your snapshots?

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
What the hell kind of backup system requires a replacement of the entire device? That's a bit..ridiculous to say the least. So you've completely lost your snapshots?

Guess so :/

Every person I've called says crap like "Oh sorry dont know how to get it back".

 

[ViRGE]

What you'll find with all consumer backup gear is that backups are considered to be a copy of your current data, not your past data. Microsoft, Apple, etc all treat it the same way. In their eyes it's no big deal that you lost your TC because you can just get a new one, you still have all of your original data on the computer to be backed up.

 

[Zaap]

Apple hypes the TC hard drive as 'server grade' - it says so on their website right now. By that standard, the opposite should be true- if your computer HD fails, no biggie- it's the backup that should be what you can rely on more. At any rate, it should be no big deal to take the hard drive out of the old, and throw it right back in a working TC, and hand it back to the customer- their data intact, new working hardware, done.

 

[umrigar]

Any drive manufacturer will not get your data back from a failed drive for free. Don't single out Apple. Time Capsule isn't some miracle device.

EDIT: Most companies require a credit card for a cross-ship replacement.

 

[Kmax82]

Originally posted by: Zaap
Apple hypes the TC hard drive as 'server grade' - it says so on their website right now. By that standard, the opposite should be true- if your computer HD fails, no biggie- it's the backup that should be what you can rely on more. At any rate, it should be no big deal to take the hard drive out of the old, and throw it right back in a working TC, and hand it back to the customer- their data intact, new working hardware, done.

Apple's Genius Bar is a nice addition to their stores for quick answers, but unfortunately they aren't technicians. Most of them probably could manage to take apart a TC and switch the HDD out... but Apple doesn't train them in that. If they did it would lead to quite a salary hike at the stores, and I think Apple just wants to Genius Bar to be a sounding board for little issues like, "I can't get my iPod to turn on".

Not saying it's right, but every HDD I've ever had fail on me (only 2 in my lifetime so far), they've required that I ship the device back to them... and they do not give me my data. It's up to me to get it off. And with Apple's proprietary solutions, I don't expect them to be any different. If you rip the thing open to get your data off, how are they supposed to know that it was broken as a result of internal error?

I agree that this isn't the way that it should be, but unfortunately it is the way that it is right now, until someone comes along and changes it.

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

Originally posted by: umrigar
Any drive manufacturer will not get your data back from a failed drive for free. Don't single out Apple. Time Capsule isn't some miracle device.

EDIT: Most companies require a credit card for a cross-ship replacement.

I wasn't asking to get my data for free. I couldn't even get an answer concerning whether or not I could get the data off my drive myself. And I understand about the CC thing, its still frustrating though when you have had all these tech support/customer support problems and they still make you do stuff like that.

 

[sourceninja]

The way I use time machine, I could deal with the loss of the drive I have assigned to it. I would just get a new one and drop it in place and let the backup take over from there. I suspect 90% of the people out there are like this. However, if I was using that drive for things other then time machine, I would have a big problem with not being able to open up the device, get the drive out and attempt data recovery before sending it in for a RMA.

 

[Kmax82]

Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate

Originally posted by: umrigar
Any drive manufacturer will not get your data back from a failed drive for free. Don't single out Apple. Time Capsule isn't some miracle device.

EDIT: Most companies require a credit card for a cross-ship replacement.

I wasn't asking to get my data for free. I couldn't even get an answer concerning whether or not I could get the data off my drive myself. And I understand about the CC thing, its still frustrating though when you have had all these tech support/customer support problems and they still make you do stuff like that.

You make a very valid point. The problem is that Apple does it the way that they want to do it. It is a royal pain in the rear, honestly. Sometimes you get that nirvana support experience with them. Other times, it's down right horrendous. Luckily I haven't had to deal with them, or any other support company, too much.

I did have an issue with my LCD TV (Westinghouse), and I have yet to get that rectified. I call and call and no one ever does anything about it. Needless to say I won't ever buy another one of their products. Luckily my TV still works, just sometimes it won't turn on and you have to unplug it from the wall. Turns out it's a firmware issue, and I'm tempted to see if I can't update it myself. It's getting ridiculous.. but now I'm super off topic.

 

[Zaap]

Originally posted by: Kmax82
Apple's Genius Bar is a nice addition to their stores for quick answers, but unfortunately they aren't technicians. Most of them probably could manage to take apart a TC and switch the HDD out... but Apple doesn't train them in that. If they did it would lead to quite a salary hike at the stores, and I think Apple just wants to Genius Bar to be a sounding board for little issues like, "I can't get my iPod to turn on".

I agree it's not a Genuis Bar issue- but I don't think it's all that big of a stretch for a store that sells computer hardware to have a person who is able to fix computer hardware issues on staff. Of course, not someone who could rewire the circuit board in the TC blindfolded- but someone who can use a screwdriver, knows what inside the thing, and has an ounce of common sense? Not a big deal. Granted, the larger issue is that Apple likes the pretense of there being more than just standard stuff inside their enclosures- so fine, have the technician in the back somewhere out of sight of the client, and send the device back to him. Again- harvest the hard drive (there's no data recovery involved in this scenario) and put it in a working enclosure.

Not saying it's right, but every HDD I've ever had fail on me (only 2 in my lifetime so far), they've required that I ship the device back to them... and they do not give me my data. It's up to me to get it off. And with Apple's proprietary solutions, I don't expect them to be any different. If you rip the thing open to get your data off, how are they supposed to know that it was broken as a result of internal error?

This isn't a data recovery issue- from the OP's story, I doubt very much that the third-party internal hard drive was damaged in the least. There's certainly a strong chance it wasn't. The Apple-made enclosure that grants access to the hard drive was what took a dump. Of course, if the hard drive itself had failed in the classic sense, then sure, it's up to the customer to recover their own data- that's a completely separate issue.

You make a great point about Apple not knowing if something is user error or not if it's ripped open, but see, there again is one of the things I take fault with about Apple, and goes back to my "car encased in plastic" analogy. There's no freakin' reason to make a hard drive enclosure that has to be 'ripped' open or broken in any way to access a hard drive out of it. It shouldn't be an issue for a user to harvest his own hard drive and worry in any way about 'breaking' the device or violating a warranty in the first place, any more than me taking a look myself under the hood of my car is. But of course, Apple is deep into the 'whole widget' pretense, and they especially don't want the customers to wise up and realize that the ONLY difference between their $300 500GB model, and the 1TB $500 is a few star screws, a screw driver, and a self-upgrade of hard drive. So they make out that it's a big deal to get into the thing, even to the detriment of their customer.

I understand why they do it- the whole widget pretense is insanely profitable. There are just times (like this one) when they could put it aside for the sake of some common sense.

 

[Kmax82]

Originally posted by: Zaap

Originally posted by: Kmax82
Apple's Genius Bar is a nice addition to their stores for quick answers, but unfortunately they aren't technicians. Most of them probably could manage to take apart a TC and switch the HDD out... but Apple doesn't train them in that. If they did it would lead to quite a salary hike at the stores, and I think Apple just wants to Genius Bar to be a sounding board for little issues like, "I can't get my iPod to turn on".

I agree it's not a Genuis Bar issue- but I don't think it's all that big of a stretch for a store that sells computer hardware to have a person who is able to fix computer hardware issues on staff. Of course, not someone who could rewire the circuit board in the TC blindfolded- but someone who can use a screwdriver, knows what inside the thing, and has an ounce of common sense? Not a big deal. Granted, the larger issue is that Apple likes the pretense of there being more than just standard stuff inside their enclosures- so fine, have the technician in the back somewhere out of sight of the client, and send the device back to him. Again- harvest the hard drive (there's no data recovery involved in this scenario) and put it in a working enclosure.

Not saying it's right, but every HDD I've ever had fail on me (only 2 in my lifetime so far), they've required that I ship the device back to them... and they do not give me my data. It's up to me to get it off. And with Apple's proprietary solutions, I don't expect them to be any different. If you rip the thing open to get your data off, how are they supposed to know that it was broken as a result of internal error?

This isn't a data recovery issue- from the OP's story, I doubt very much that the third-party internal hard drive was damaged in the least. There's certainly a strong chance it wasn't. The Apple-made enclosure that grants access to the hard drive was what took a dump. Of course, if the hard drive itself had failed in the classic sense, then sure, it's up to the customer to recover their own data- that's a completely separate issue.

You make a great point about Apple not knowing if something is user error or not if it's ripped open, but see, there again is one of the things I take fault with about Apple, and goes back to my "car encased in plastic" analogy. There's no freakin' reason to make a hard drive enclosure that has to be 'ripped' open or broken in any way to access a hard drive out of it. It shouldn't be an issue for a user to harvest his own hard drive and worry in any way about 'breaking' the device or violating a warranty in the first place, any more than me taking a look myself under the hood of my car is. But of course, Apple is deep into the 'whole widget' pretense, and they especially don't want the customers to wise up and realize that the ONLY difference between their $300 500GB model, and the 1TB $500 is a few star screws, a screw driver, and a self-upgrade of hard drive. So they make out that it's a big deal to get into the thing, even to the detriment of their customer.

I understand why they do it- the whole widget pretense is insanely profitable. There are just times (like this one) when they could put it aside for the sake of some common sense.

I completely agree! Especially when customer service is very rare this day and age. It would look good on them as a whole, to keep their customers (who are reasonable, not Joe Smoe who dropped his iPod in a lake and wants a replacement for free) happy.

As they gain in marketshare, they better shape up on issues like this, or else it could cause many growing pains in their business. But that's probably still years away.

 

[earthman]

This is sad but hilarious. Another reason I will never buy any more Apple products. I mean seriously, would you buy a car from a dealer that couldn't take it apart and fix it? "Sorry, we have to send it back to Tokyo!"

 

[TheStu]

Well, as unfortunate as this story is, I will say this much, Apple, just like every other company I can think of, is staffed by human beings, and some stores are better than others. I have seen my share of crummy retail experiences, Circuit City was usually good until they refused to help me out with a monitor issue (stuck pixel, brought back within the return period, they would not have one sent from another store so i could go home with a perfect monitor) Best Buy usually has crummy service in my opinion, and every Apple Store I have ever been to has been a great customer experience. However, I do recognize that it will not always be the same, that people will have off days, and that some people are just working there to make money, and don't care about the job.

If it had been me working there, then I probably would have pulled a drive swap behind closed doors. But what if Apple's official policy is to not do that, and doing that could get me fired?

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: earthman
This is sad but hilarious. Another reason I will never buy any more Apple products. I mean seriously, would you buy a car from a dealer that couldn't take it apart and fix it? "Sorry, we have to send it back to Tokyo!"

Well a car is different. If my car had a problem and I took it to the dealer and they gave me a new car instead of fixing it, well I'd be happy. Not true with my private data however.