Andy Rooney: Soldiers in Iraq aren't heros.

[KAMAZON]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: KAMAZON[/iIgnoring the meat of the discussion and focusing on 2 non important links...

I rest my case; you provided "non important links' in support of your hypothesis...strike two.

Compared to the people I listed who are hardcore republicans, yes, the links are not so important. Regardless, the links still backup my point. Now YOU are ignoring the people I listed who are important republicans. If you are honestly trying to have a discussion, then you will point to those people I listed such as Scowcroft, James Baker the "Turd" (III), Scott Ritter, and many others. I answered your questions, you ignoring them is just pure sophistry or ignorance.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
UQ is right.

A hero in a true sense is someone who performs an extraordinary act in extraordinary circumstances. Soldiers fight do not make them heroes. Our troops do a terrific job and there are heroes among them. Using it as a general term cheapens the meaning, and it is indeed being used in a back slapping way.

Well said.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Yes, I believe the assessment that a good chunk (40%) of the soldiers over there are Reserve-National Guardsmen who probably never imagined they'd be deployed overseas to fight on the front lines. Or pull cop duty in the Sunni triangle.

I doubt it's 40% but I agree with your premise. If the university system did not require tuition, our all volunteer force would have substantially fewer volunteers.

In times of local, state, and national emergencies all sorts of ordinary people rise to the occasion to provide extraordinary service. And then you have people that spend most of their lives committed to extraordinary service . . . you know like Valerie Plame. I'm sure every American appreciates such sacrifices.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
UQ is right. A hero in a true sense is someone who performs an extraordinary act in extraordinary circumstances. Soldiers fight do not make them heroes. Our troops do a terrific job and there are heroes among them. Using it as a general term cheapens the meaning, and it is indeed being used in a back slapping way.

In combat, I guarantee you, every single soldier on both sides is shot through with fear. Most do their jobs anyway. Some do extraordinary things, despite their fear, out of basic instinct or the sheer inability not to let yourself or your buddies down. Shame (and training) trumps fear, go figure. You can go to war with the highest and purest of ideals. Two weeks in the field will suck that right out of you. The brass give these guys who respond well despite themselves medals and call them heroes. Most of the time in a combat situation, you are running on fumes. It can happen so fast, and seem like some kind of bad dream afterwards. People you know well blown to pieces just yards from you. All you can feel is a hard yet somehow dulled rage, and the weird guilt that you are still alive. War, real war, sucks worse than any civilian could ever imagine.

 

[Zebo]

Vets, do you agree? Were medals pinned on your chests to "keep you going"?

That's exactly the thought behind why they were created and first instituted around 1890s. We got the idea from Nepolean who was the first to use such incentives. Look at some old civil/spanish american war portaits you'll see no metals even in full dress.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
UQ is right. A hero in a true sense is someone who performs an extraordinary act in extraordinary circumstances. Soldiers fight do not make them heroes. Our troops do a terrific job and there are heroes among them. Using it as a general term cheapens the meaning, and it is indeed being used in a back slapping way.

In combat, I guarantee you, every single soldier on both sides is shot through with fear. Most do their jobs anyway. Some do extraordinary things, despite their fear, out of basic instinct or the sheer inability not to let yourself or your buddies down. Shame (and training) trumps fear, go figure. You can go to war with the highest and purest of ideals. Two weeks in the field will suck that right out of you. The brass give these guys who respond well despite themselves medals and call them heroes. Most of the time in a combat situation, you are running on fumes. It can happen so fast, and seem like some kind of bad dream afterwards. People you know well blown to pieces just yards from you. All you can feel is a hard yet somehow dulled rage, and the weird guilt that you are still alive. War, real war, sucks worse than any civilian could ever imagine.

Talked with some guys who said it was the ultimate "hunt" when prey can shoot back.

 

[maluckey]

I don't know about "guilt that you are still alive" Perknose....

My old buddies (some have been in Panama, The first Gulf War, and now this one), are thrilled to have proven themselves, and sad for the families who lost their sons. They are not sad for their buddies. Their buddies died doing what hey chose to do, and knew full well that it could have been themselves and not their buddy in the ground. For that, they are happpy, and gratefull. Most now believe that since they are now battle toughened, they can teach the next generation how to survive, and that generation will carry on when they are handed the torch.

Heroes, no, proud to have served....absolutely.

The Spartans used to have a pledge between them. It roughly translates, that their famililies will never see the smoke of enemy fires. They proved the determination of their pledge at Thermopylae, versus the Persians. The cost was 100 percent of the soldiers dead.

Soliers fight, soldiers die, soldiers move on. That's what they do. Heroes do something other than that. Heroes often die for their fellow soldiers. Heroes put themselves in situations of known immediate mortal peril so that their buddies can survive and deliver defeat to the enemy. Anything less is an "you done good!", and an "atta- boy!" and free beer when you finally return to the rear.