Android devices - Are they really powered off when shut down?

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Throckmorton

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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Is power cut off from all hardware (except the clock and whatever monitors the buttons)? You'd think so, but what makes me wonder is the battery animation that appears when you plug in the charger (at least on this Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 I have). It has to be run by something.

Surely the mainboard, processors, RAM, etc can't all be constantly powered or the battery would be drained within a day or two after shut down, right?
 
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Red Storm

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Throckmorton said:
Is power cut off from all hardware (except the clock and whatever monitors the buttons)? You'd think so, but what makes me wonder is the battery animation that appears when you plug in the charger. It has to be run by something.
Click to expand...

You answered it yourself, it's being powered by the charging cable...
 
corkyg

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
27,370
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My phone does, my tablet does not.
 
B

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
81
If we've learned anything over the past two months it's that, unless you've physically disconnected the battery from the system board, these device never actually turn all the way off.
 
Bateluer

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
NSA needs a way to access the microphone remotely, couldn't if the device was all the way off.
 
AznAnarchy99

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
I've had some HTC phones where I had to pull the battery to completely power off otherwise it would go into some hibernate mode. Never had that issue with Samsung phones though.
 
T_Yamamoto

T_Yamamoto

Lifer
Jul 6, 2011
15,007
795
126
Samsung Galaxy Nexus, completely off, the AC/USB powers the screen to show the charging status
ASUS Nexus 7, does the same thing
Motorola Droid 1 (or the Milestone), does the same thing
Samsung Stratosphere, same thing

If I pull the battery (except the Nexus 7, since I can't), and turn it on, it will work (as in, I can use the phone as long as its on an outlet)
 
Midwayman

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
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On my android phones I've had them turned off for weeks and noticed no battery drop. If there is any power use, its very low.
 
H

Hunt3rj2

Member
Jun 23, 2008
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It's off. Of course, it not actually possible to have it completely turned off for charging, but the SoC is completely power gated, the only thing that might have power is the PMIC.
 
NikolaeVarius

NikolaeVarius

Lifer
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Android is open source so I'm pretty goddamn sure that someone would have noticed something that shifty by now.

You should be more concerned with iOS, you have no idea wtf goes on behind that walled garden.
 
J

JeffMD

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2002
2,026
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Thats what im thinking nik, the code has been poured over, and im sure there are several groups who are looking specifically and androids power management. And then there are people who are probably investigating the hardware, although I suspect the more functions that are added to a single chip, the harder it gets to determine the full functionality of the chip.
 
S

Suspicious-Teach8788

Lifer
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
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NikolaeVarius said:
Android is open source so I'm pretty goddamn sure that someone would have noticed something that shifty by now.

You should be more concerned with iOS, you have no idea wtf goes on behind that walled garden.
Click to expand...
How is that even relevant? Why do you just make idiotic statements all the time like this? Post something useful.

Anyhow, on some older phones like the Nokia N-series, you can have the phone powered off and the alarm still go off, so clearly there's some power used. The only way ANYONE knows for sure is to measure current draw from the battery.

Regarding the clock, doesn't the clock need to remain powered or is there another battery to handle that?
 
NikolaeVarius

NikolaeVarius

Lifer
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
DLeRium said:
How is that even relevant? Why do you just make idiotic statements all the time like this? Post something useful.

Anyhow, on some older phones like the Nokia N-series, you can have the phone powered off and the alarm still go off, so clearly there's some power used. The only way ANYONE knows for sure is to measure current draw from the battery.

Regarding the clock, doesn't the clock need to remain powered or is there another battery to handle that?
Click to expand...

Because apparently in a topic about privacy/a phones ability to do things without your consent, the idea of open source vs close source code that can be reviews for code that governs this possible behavior apparently isn't relevant?

Do you think before you post?
 
NikolaeVarius

NikolaeVarius

Lifer
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
bearxor said:
Yeah, I was ignoring you too because it seemed totally unnecessary. Nobody asked anything about iOS or even mentioned it before you. But I suppose you've missed this news:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-03/security-enhanced-android-nsa-edition

Of course, it's for our protection right now... Sureeeee... ...
Click to expand...

And you apparently missed the memo that if you want, you can go into AOSP right now and see for yourself if there is any weird tracking going on.

You ALSO apparently missed the memo that because android is open source, companies can contribute code to google to be used. Do you think the NSA is just a bunch of people sitting around phones listening to conversations? No. The NSA has some of the top security minded programmers in the world. So why exactly is it a bad thing when the NSA contributes security code? Especially since it seems that 4.3 introduced alot more security features.

Also, phones don't necessarily keep time when they're off/battery out. I learned that the hard way when I was in another country with 0 phone service.
Also, most likely, if they DID keep the clock or something on , they would use technology that is literally over 200 years old. Have people forgotten that clocks have used capacitors to keep time when disconnected from a power source for decades now? Capacitors DO hold a charge you know...

Lastly, why is it not relavent to bring in all phone OS's when we're talking about the possbility of phones to track us even when they're off. Don't you think all OS's should be analyzed for this ability?
 
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WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,695
10,861
136
bearxor said:
Yeah, I was ignoring you too because it seemed totally unnecessary. Nobody asked anything about iOS or even mentioned it before you. But I suppose you've missed this news:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-03/security-enhanced-android-nsa-edition

Of course, it's for our protection right now... Sureeeee... ...
Click to expand...

It might not be specifically for your protection but government agencies need to use phones as well so it's in their interests to try and make them secure if they can.

The point he was making about open/closed source software was very relevant. That stuff gets picked apart by a bunch of very clever people (quite a few of whom would be classed as "tin foil hat wearing conspiracy buffs" ;) ). You want to worry more about proprietary software and the stuff that the carriers pass on really.
 
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WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,695
10,861
136
DLeRium said:
...
Regarding the clock, doesn't the clock need to remain powered or is there another battery to handle that?
Click to expand...

That should be easy to test. Turn off wifi and take the sim card out. Then remove the battery for a while.

See what time it says when you turn it on.
 
Throckmorton

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
I'm guessing the NSA microphone thing is BS. The phone has to be on to grab audio and send it over the network. Same with GPS.
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,695
10,861
136
Throckmorton said:
I'm guessing the NSA microphone thing is BS. The phone has to be on to grab audio and send it over the network. Same with GPS.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it just an app that stops the phone from fully shutting down, then grabs the audio and transmits it while making it appear that the phone is off? That's why the "infected" phones showed a large power draw while "off".
 
L

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
bearxor said:
Yeah, I was ignoring you too because it seemed totally unnecessary. Nobody asked anything about iOS or even mentioned it before you. But I suppose you've missed this news:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-03/security-enhanced-android-nsa-edition[/B]

Of course, it's for our protection right now... Sureeeee... ...
Click to expand...

People making a mountain out of a mole hill...
***Yawn***What else is new?

All Android code is available for public review, and plenty of people are reviewing it.

It came to light today (though it was never a secret) that the NSA (the National Security Agency), a U.S. intelligence service that's been in the news as of late for things nobody likes, is contributing code to Google's Android project. Of course, the Internet's first reaction was predictably "OMG PRISM! They're building in PRISM!!11one!"

You can relax folks. While the NSA has no official statement about what they call their Security Enhancements for Android project's link to the PRISM project, this isn't something new. They've been working on this Android code since 2011, which is an offshoot of their SE (Security-Enhanced) Linux project before that. Their SELinux code was peer reviewed by anyone and everyone, and the commits were generally accepted as being great additions that make a secure operating system even more safe.

While Android isn't developed in the open, upon release the code is all available. There are all manner of very smart and god-like code nerds pouring through it, and any shenanigans would be quickly uncovered. Let's just take a deep breath, and realize that the NSA could be very helpful writing code to keep systems secure.
Click to expand...
http://www.androidcentral.com/nsa-contributes-android-there-no-secret-backdoor
 
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