Android Circuit: Galaxy S6's Sales Disaster

[openwheel]

It's not that every flagship has one glaring weakness, just that we have too many choices and everyone wants the best of all Android flagships.

 

[PowerYoga]

probably because the phone has atrocious battery life and removed features that people actually want.

 

[sm625]

It's not surprising really. Anyone who is willing to be violated to the tune of nearly $1000 for a frickin phone is already bending over and taking fruit up their rears. Android is for the $49-$250 phones.

 

[Brian Stirling]

It took a few years but now that there are a number of Chinese makers and that they have a huge percentage of the worlds biggest market it's not hard to see how the market for everyone else would have declined. Add to that the bite Apple took out of the high end Android market with the two iPhones in the 4.7 inch and larger sizes. And finally, the total market hasn't grown much in the last year or two as we've reached a saturation replacement market.

So, total market flat, Chinese makers grabbing a significant share and Apple eating some of the high end market and ....


Brian

 

[dawheat]

It took a few years but now that there are a number of Chinese makers and that they have a huge percentage of the worlds biggest market it's not hard to see how the market for everyone else would have declined. Add to that the bite Apple took out of the high end Android market with the two iPhones in the 4.7 inch and larger sizes. And finally, the total market hasn't grown much in the last year or two as we've reached a saturation replacement market.

So, total market flat, Chinese makers grabbing a significant share and Apple eating some of the high end market and ....


Brian

<shrugs>Yet Samsung still sold 80m+ phones last quarter. Folks act like the sky is falling and their heyday might be over, but they're still going to sell 250m+ phones in 2015.

I think the bigger sign is there just isn't much room in the high end android space any more - HTC and Sony are pretty clear signs of that. LG looks to be making some space for themselves, but that's probably it.

You can make a strong case the S6 isn't worth 2X the price of a Chinese phone, but at least you're getting something, even if there is diminishing returns. The best 2K screen, UFS storage, touch biometrics, arguably the best camera, the best non-Apple SOC.

HTC and Sony have none of the above to distinguish themselves.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I don't know. I honestly don't know one single person (personally, forums are another matter) that pays full price for a cell phone. Not one. Almost everybody in the US market at least is paying the same $200 subsidized price for whatever flagship phone they fancy when their upgrade comes up. I would be interested to see what the numbers for the S6 are in the subsidized market. I have seen one person with a S6, but a ton with the iPhone 6.

Don't a bunch of MOs have the "pay full price over your contract through $30 monthly payments"?

 

[ControlD]

Don't a bunch of MOs have the "pay full price over your contract through $30 monthly payments"?

That's true. I know Verizon has such a plan where they take the phone price and divide it by (I think) 20 months. Right now it is a decent deal because they will also lower your monthly plan price by $25 if you switch over. I am guessing they are hoping to move more and more people over to this model going forward. I just worry that the $25 monthly credit will go away at some point.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's not surprising really. Anyone who is willing to be violated to the tune of nearly $1000 for a frickin phone is already bending over and taking fruit up their rears. Android is for the $49-$250 phones.

I would pay $600+ for an Android phone today that gave me what I wanted. Hell even if it only gave me 80% of what I want. We don't have the perfect device yet, and there are people who want a nicer phone.

The S6 is close except Touchwiz and battery.

 

[WelshBloke]

The S6 is close except Touchwiz and battery.

I'll keep the Touchwiz if you make it waterproof.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I'll keep the Touchwiz if you make it waterproof.

Exactly! There isn't a perfect device in Androidland that works for everyone, but that doesn't mean we aren't willing to pay the price for a device that meets our needs. Up until this year (since 2013) we have had a lot of good options, and after Qualcomm dropped the ball in 2015 maybe we will get more diversity in the ecosystem for SOCs.

I bet you feel good about that 805 S5 now, still the best normal sized device if you really care about a SD slot and battery replacement. That was a good buy in retrospect.

I am still glad I anticipated the Qualpocalypse and got a M8 for cheap at the end of last year, as if I still had my S4 I would have felt like I had to burn an upgrade on a S6 day one and stay locked into ATT. I still have an inchy trigger finger though, so if the 2015 Nexus sucks I am probably going to get an off contract S6 later in the year.

 

[WelshBloke]

Exactly! There isn't a perfect device in Androidland that works for everyone, but that doesn't mean we aren't willing to pay the price for a device that meets our needs. Up until this year (since 2013) we have had a lot of good options, and after Qualcomm dropped the ball in 2015 maybe we will get more diversity in the ecosystem for SOCs.

Yeah. I'm all for variety in the Android market. Its its main strength. Things are getting a little stale.

I bet you feel good about that 805 S5 now, still the best normal sized device if you really care about a SD slot and battery replacement. That was a good buy in retrospect.

I just bought a couple of new 3500mAh batteries for it as I guess I'll be keeping it for longer than I expected. There's not much that I don't like about it TBH. The faux metal trim is typical old school Samsung but it's not something that particularly bothers me, everything else is great about it. There's a few things I'd like out of the S6 but I'm happy to stick with the S5 for now.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It seems like waterproof stopped being a feature, so I don't blame you for staying put. Plus that 805 is still probably Qualcomm's best SoC, with a 1080p screen it can't be beat in power per pixel. It should last another year plus really at a high end. Samsung is good about updates for their Galaxies.

Honestly almost all these flagship Androids are good enough on some parts of the hardware, we hit good enough a while ago. I like being an Android enthusiast but at some point that becomes less about a new device every year and more about the platform.

Honestly more than anything I want that reversible plug Lol. That is my favorite thing about the iPad. I am always plugging my stuff in in the dark.

 

[JeffMD]

Saturation of "good enough" hardware. Many people aren't going to upgrade until they have to.

I would have to point here. I would probably point at the S4/G2 era of android phones and say "Here is where phone speeds no longer mattered, and the only thing people look at now is screen size, quality, and the look of the phone". Obviously phones did get much faster but frankly we don't have anything like apps or games that need to be faster than a snapdragon 800. These 800 level phones can be had for $200 off contract, or for the more stupid people, "Free after signing 2 years of your life away paying $80 a month."

I was close to buying an S6 on prepaid because I was unable to find a good mid range upgrade, and in the end an S6 on prepaid would still come out cheaper then any of the post paid plans and contracts. I ended up jumping prepaid carriers though and found my lg g flex for $200 on another and happy I saved $450. ^^

 

[WelshBloke]

It seems like waterproof stopped being a feature, so I don't blame you for staying put.

Yeah, I love the waterproofing. I get that it's a niche feature but it's one that I find really useful.

Plus that 805 is still probably Qualcomm's best SoC, with a 1080p screen it can't be beat in power per pixel. It should last another year plus really at a high end. Samsung is good about updates for their Galaxies.

Performance wise it's a beast. The only place I can see it getting dated is in the speed of the storage.

Honestly almost all these flagship Androids are good enough on some parts of the hardware, we hit good enough a while ago. I like being an Android enthusiast but at some point that becomes less about a new device every year and more about the platform.

The performance opens up new things in the platform. Ultra HD video recording needs a fairly beefy CPU and some fast storage. The phone as a desktop replacement is becoming a doable thing as well with the power of the hardware and the flexibility of the OS. But it definitely takes a synergy of the hardware and software to make something special.

Honestly more than anything I want that reversible plug Lol. That is my favorite thing about the iPad. I am always plugging my stuff in in the dark.

Lol. :awe: I really don't have a problem plugging my phone in in the dark, even with the flap and the superfluous usb3 socket. But I see where you're coming from, sometimes change is fun just for the sake of change.

 

[soccerballtux]

called this after the s4 came out

 

[jpeyton]

Where does Android go from here?

World domination?

Where will Samsung go from here? If their phones sell well, great. If Apple's phones sell well, Samsung is a key component vendor. Win win.

 

[kaerflog]

I would have to point here. I would probably point at the S4/G2 era of android phones and say "Here is where phone speeds no longer mattered, and the only thing people look at now is screen size, quality, and the look of the phone". Obviously phones did get much faster but frankly we don't have anything like apps or games that need to be faster than a snapdragon 800. These 800 level phones can be had for $200 off contract, or for the more stupid people, "Free after signing 2 years of your life away paying $80 a month."

I was close to buying an S6 on prepaid because I was unable to find a good mid range upgrade, and in the end an S6 on prepaid would still come out cheaper then any of the post paid plans and contracts. I ended up jumping prepaid carriers though and found my lg g flex for $200 on another and happy I saved $450. ^^

I agreed with this except you need to leave the S4 out of the equation.
It more like the G2/S5 era.
I had the S4. Nice phone but no where near the G2. Snapdragon S600 and terrible battery life. Not on an equal footing with the G2.

 

[RussianSensation]

I would pay $600+ for an Android phone today that gave me what I wanted. Hell even if it only gave me 80% of what I want. We don't have the perfect device yet, and there are people who want a nicer phone.

The S6 is close except Touchwiz and battery.

If Samsung took Sony's plain Android OS, added the SD card slot and water-proof rating of Xperia Z3/Z4 lines, made the phone 8mm and shoved a ~3300mAH battery in there, pretty much they would have made all Android phones besides the Note 5 irrelevant for 12 months. I think a lot of people would have been more willing to accept the non-removable battery if the battery life was closer to Note 4/Xperia Z3/Z3 Compact levels. It would be interesting to see how many consumers would prefer a thinner phone (<7mm) with iPhone 6/S6 battery life vs. a thicker 8-8.5mm phone with 50% more battery life. I still think the iPhone 6 and S6 went a bit too far since their cameras have protruding lenses which look kinda ugly. I think a lot of customers would been OK with an 7.5-8mm phone even as long as the battery life increased . In LG's case, they lost the message completely making a phone nearly 10mm thick that has worse battery life than a < 7mm phones. Yawn.

I would have to point here. I would probably point at the S4/G2 era of android phones and say "Here is where phone speeds no longer mattered, and the only thing people look at now is screen size, quality, and the look of the phone". Obviously phones did get much faster but frankly we don't have anything like apps or games that need to be faster than a snapdragon 800. These 800 level phones can be had for $200 off contract, or for the more stupid people, "Free after signing 2 years of your life away paying $80 a month."

I've used iPhone 5/5S and 6 back to back. They feel exactly the same to me in snappiness without using a stop-watch. For light tasks, I can't tell the difference even though 5S's CPU is 2X faster and iPhone 6 is 1.25X faster than iPhone 5S. All 3 phones fail when it comes to hardcore Internet browsing as 1GB of RAM just isn't enough (i.e., Safari starts reloading Internet pages you have saved).

For the most part, the biggest advancements in phones have come in screen IQ (Samsung S5/Note 4/S6 really elevated the IQ against crappy screens like LG's G3 or Sony's Z2's). Also, obviously for iPhone users the move from tiny 3.5-4" screens to 4.7-5.5" was revolutionary. The other major change that's happening is in the camera space. Cameras are constantly improving to the point where unless you are rocking a Canon S95-120 or Sony RX100 I-III series (or similar), don't even bother with a compact Point and Shoot. In that sense, the latest gen of smartphones (LG G4/S6/Note 4) are doing to P&S cameras space what Intel's IGP/AMD APU's are doing to the sub-$100 GPU space - making them irrelevant. It also cost a lot of $ to get a camera that can record 4K and many expensive cameras still can't even record at 1080P @ 60 fps or slow motion 120 fps. Speed wise, we are slowly reaching a point of diminishing returns though. Once phones adapt UFS 2.0/faster flash memory to mimic SSDs on the PC, it's going to make a lot of mid-range next gen 2017-2018 phones feel snappy enough to probably start lasting 4-5 years.

I mean honestly for the average user an iPhone 5/Samsung S4 (without the bloat) is still snappy and those phones are approaching 2.5-3 years old.

 

[WelshBloke]

If Samsung took Sony's plain Android OS, added the SD card slot and water-proof rating of Xperia Z3/Z4 lines, made the phone 8mm and shoved a ~3300mAH battery in there, pretty much they would have made all Android phones besides the Note 5 irrelevant for 12 months.

Lets be honest, whether you're a fan of the S6 or not (and I'm not) they've already done that. Now, yes, partly it's Qualcomms fault for not giving the other OEMs anything to work with but Samsung have pretty much made what everyone was nagging them to make over the years.

 

[ThisIsChrisKim]

If Samsung took Sony's plain Android OS, added the SD card slot and water-proof rating of Xperia Z3/Z4 lines, made the phone 8mm and shoved a ~3300mAH battery in there, pretty much they would have made all Android phones besides the Note 5 irrelevant for 12 months. I think a lot of people would have been more willing to accept the non-removable battery if the battery life was closer to Note 4/Xperia Z3/Z3 Compact levels. It would be interesting to see how many consumers would prefer a thinner phone (<7mm) with iPhone 6/S6 battery life vs. a thicker 8-8.5mm phone with 50% more battery life. I still think the iPhone 6 and S6 went a bit too far since their cameras have protruding lenses which look kinda ugly. I think a lot of customers would been OK with an 7.5-8mm phone even as long as the battery life increased . In LG's case, they lost the message completely making a phone nearly 10mm thick that has worse battery life than a < 7mm phones. Yawn.



I've used iPhone 5/5S and 6 back to back. They feel exactly the same to me in snappiness without using a stop-watch. For light tasks, I can't tell the difference even though 5S's CPU is 2X faster and iPhone 6 is 1.25X faster than iPhone 5S. All 3 phones fail when it comes to hardcore Internet browsing as 1GB of RAM just isn't enough (i.e., Safari starts reloading Internet pages you have saved).

For the most part, the biggest advancements in phones have come in screen IQ (Samsung S5/Note 4/S6 really elevated the IQ against crappy screens like LG's G3 or Sony's Z2's). Also, obviously for iPhone users the move from tiny 3.5-4" screens to 4.7-5.5" was revolutionary. The other major change that's happening is in the camera space. Cameras are constantly improving to the point where unless you are rocking a Canon S95-120 or Sony RX100 I-III series (or similar), don't even bother with a compact Point and Shoot. In that sense, the latest gen of smartphones (LG G4/S6/Note 4) are doing to P&S cameras space what Intel's IGP/AMD APU's are doing to the sub-$100 GPU space - making them irrelevant. It also cost a lot of $ to get a camera that can record 4K and many expensive cameras still can't even record at 1080P @ 60 fps or slow motion 120 fps. Speed wise, we are slowly reaching a point of diminishing returns though. Once phones adapt UFS 2.0/faster flash memory to mimic SSDs on the PC, it's going to make a lot of mid-range next gen 2017-2018 phones feel snappy enough to probably start lasting 4-5 years.

I mean honestly for the average user an iPhone 5/Samsung S4 (without the bloat) is still snappy and those phones are approaching 2.5-3 years old.

You're forgetting something fairly important in this equation--as hardware gets better, developers make the existing apps more and more resource heavy by adding more features that weren't possible before. Even though we're still just "browsing the web" or "writing an email", the interfaces are more sleek, have more context sensitive info, allow faster navigation, and are more graphics heavy than before. This is were all these resources go. So good enough is not good enough sooner rather than later in this space.

 

[blairharrington]

Don't forget the fact that iOS will always run best on a 'newer' device. I know iOS 9 is supposed to be optimized for legacy devices but I'll believe it when I see it.

The camera alone is worth an upgrade every two years personally. But I certainly understand why many consumers will hold onto their phones for more than 2 years or purchase older devices.

Regarding the S6, I really don't think now is the time to make any proclamations. We will know in due time whether it sold well or not.

 

[pokepud3]

Honeslty the biggest issue is the jump from s4 to s5 to s6 has all been less than minimal. I see people using the g2 that cant tell the difference between the g2 and g4 other than screen size.

 

[openwheel]

Honeslty the biggest issue is the jump from s4 to s5 to s6 has all been less than minimal. I see people using the g2 that cant tell the difference between the g2 and g4 other than screen size.

You just described the iPhone experience. No one complains there.
Only Android phones get the same old tiring comparison. Same reviews process and everything is claimed to be a compromise.

You get big battery, but it's too heavy.
You get good optics, but it's not Android.
You get beautiful construction, but no swap-able battery.
You get pure Android, but it's too big.
You get big sensor, but no OIS.
You get a fantastic phone, but it cost too much at $350.00
You get a cheap phone, but it's not expensive.

Bottom line is, it's not an iPhone.

 

[Oyeve]

You just described the iPhone experience. No one complains there.
Only Android phones get the same old tiring comparison. Same reviews process and everything is claimed to be a compromise.

You get big battery, but it's too heavy.
You get good optics, but it's not Android.
You get beautiful construction, but no swap-able battery.
You get pure Android, but it's too big.
You get big sensor, but no OIS.
You get a fantastic phone, but it cost too much at $350.00
You get a cheap phone, but it's not expensive.

Bottom line is, it's not an iPhone.

Hehe.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Honeslty the biggest issue is the jump from s4 to s5 to s6 has all been less than minimal.

S4->S5= Huge Battery Life Increase

S5->S6= Huge storage speed increase