Copy the url, go to mozilla, and hit the middle button anywhere on the page. voila! What a horrible user interface mistake, making for less work and whatnot.
Originally posted by: CTho9305
Originally posted by: pitupepito2000
Just because something is hard or takes some work and tries to educated through the process doesn't mean is not ready for the "average" desktop. For example an average linux newbie is more likely to learn more stuff in 5 years than a windows newbie
Yes, but the point is, the "average" desktop belongs to one of those windows newbies, and until they can get around at least as well in linux as in windows, it's not ready. Even if you use KDE, toss a KDE newb in front of a GNOME box and it's as foreign again as the Windows->Linux transition.
When I first tried gnome, after being a faithful KDE user, I didn't have a hard time. In my opinion, you just have to be curious and a nosy person. You will learn through the process. For example, a lot of us were told not to put your hands on a burner because it hurts, but because we are curious we had to put the hand on a burner. Because we were curious, we made mistakes and learnt at the end
Normal people don't give a damn about the less work of pressing 2 key board combinations if it will ensure what they have copyed doesn't get deleted. Your mozilla middle click it just a hack to try and get around the hack that is the x copy and paste. How would any one using linux even know that middle clicking sent the browser to what ever is in the clipboard? Do you except some one to read man pages to figure out the correct way to use copy and paste for each application.
Nothing you say is going to convice me that a clip board that lack the ablity to replace text is a feature, but feel free to try.
sssshhhh! don't reveal that linux user's figure out ways to be a little bit more of slackers
After all we want to do little work and have more fun with the CLI You have to remember that when you give a computer with Windows installed to somebody, they have probably used a version of Windows before, and they are probably familiar, and now how some things work under that OS. But heck, when people first use a piece of software or an OS whether it is Windows or Linux, they don't know how it works, they usually click around or go to help. Well, in desktop environments like KDE the man pages are displayed more user friendly an you can access them through the help menu, just like in Windows.
I think threads like this are funny. A couple of times in the past I had to help some CAD users make the transition from Solaris to windows 2000. I think they were the biggest whiners of anyone I've ever seen about not being able to figure out how to do anything in windows.
Its all a matter of what you learn and to open yourself up to new ideas. If you go into it expecting it to be a positive learning experience, thats what it will be... If you go into it worried about all the thing you won't be able to figure out, those will be the things glaring at you when you think back about your experiences.
Also, I saw some references to the GIMP UI, you are using gimp 2 right? since its been ported to GTK 2 I think its UI is much better looking, but it still functions the same.
Its all a matter of what you learn and to open yourself up to new ideas. If you go into it expecting it to be a positive learning experience, thats what it will be... If you go into it worried about all the thing you won't be able to figure out, those will be the things glaring at you when you think back about your experiences.
Also, I saw some references to the GIMP UI, you are using gimp 2 right? since its been ported to GTK 2 I think its UI is much better looking, but it still functions the same.
Whatever the clipboard situation is crap.
it's crap it's crap it's crap it's crap.
2 ways to do something is cool, if it worked correctly.
keyboard combo = long term buffer.
middle click = short term.
Then you could do something like (some people do) have a Gvim window or something open full of commonly used commands and phrases. Keep it in a corner, and treat it like a buffer. Middle click here, middle click there. So on and so forth. URL, phrases, whatever.
Then when you have something you need to copy and paste over and over again, even thru other more inconsiquencial copy and pastes then you use the keyboard combo.
That way you have 2 copy'n'paste buffers in X. You can use both, or choose the one you like the most.
HOWEVER. IT doesn't work, it's broken. That's the way it's SUPPOSE to work, but many applications can't handle that. Many applications have different ways to do the keyboard combo, some when you copy with middle click it puts it in the buffer that's suppose to be for the keyboard combo, and visa versa.
So when you middle click here, middle click their, you get the old copy. WTF? Then the keyboard combo works and shows the stuff you just highlighted and middle clicked?
That doesn't make sense. So you end up with 2 different buffers and 4-5 different possible ways it could react if you try to copy stuff based on the brain-dead-ness of the application your using. Most applications work fine, but there are enough older stuff floating or badly written stuff around that it just makes it confusing.
it's crap it's crap it's crap it's crap.
2 ways to do something is cool, if it worked correctly.
keyboard combo = long term buffer.
middle click = short term.
Then you could do something like (some people do) have a Gvim window or something open full of commonly used commands and phrases. Keep it in a corner, and treat it like a buffer. Middle click here, middle click there. So on and so forth. URL, phrases, whatever.
Then when you have something you need to copy and paste over and over again, even thru other more inconsiquencial copy and pastes then you use the keyboard combo.
That way you have 2 copy'n'paste buffers in X. You can use both, or choose the one you like the most.
HOWEVER. IT doesn't work, it's broken. That's the way it's SUPPOSE to work, but many applications can't handle that. Many applications have different ways to do the keyboard combo, some when you copy with middle click it puts it in the buffer that's suppose to be for the keyboard combo, and visa versa.
So when you middle click here, middle click their, you get the old copy. WTF? Then the keyboard combo works and shows the stuff you just highlighted and middle clicked?
That doesn't make sense. So you end up with 2 different buffers and 4-5 different possible ways it could react if you try to copy stuff based on the brain-dead-ness of the application your using. Most applications work fine, but there are enough older stuff floating or badly written stuff around that it just makes it confusing.
Originally posted by: pitupepito2000
sssshhhh! don't reveal that linux user's figure out ways to be a little bit more of slackers
You have NO idea how irritating it is when moz decides to paste rather than let me scroll when I hit the mouse button. When I middle click a tab, it is supposed to close, not go to whatever is on my clipboard. Fortunately, there is a pref to disable that behavior.
There are two clipboards that are used - primary and clipboard. In many apps, if you highlight some text, then middle click somewhere else, it will copy the text to the new location. At first glance, this is very cool. That is, until you realize that the text doesn't actually get COPIED until you paste it. This means a few things. 1) you can't select text, deselect it to do something else, and then paste later 2) if the app you want to copy from gets closed / crashes, the text is gone. This is done using "primary".
"clipboard" appears to work more like the windows clipboard - you select some text, hit whatever key combo is set to copy (e.g. ctrl+c), and then you can paste elsewhere, even if you deselect the text. At first glance, this is also good, until you realize that on the backend, it's just doing a hack, and in reality, the text still isn't copied until you paste it, so again, you can't close whatever app you're copying from.
Two (well, three, but nobody uses secondary) clipboards is idiotic. Not copying to an X buffer from the app immediately is also idiotic.
It's not idiotic. X windows is something that evolved, not something that was created.
This is just the way it ended up as.
Middle click is cool, actually. it's easy and quick. The only downside is that each application has it's own control over it's copy and pasting, so if that application is closed then you lose the copy. People plenty of times has done clipboards and deamons to restle control of these sort of things from each application, it's one of those issues that is going to be resolved once the Xorg and Freedesktop.org stuff starts kicking in. (the main reason I like it though is that it works great with the command line stuff. Long filenames, URLs and crap like that.)
see here for what is going on with this
This is just the way it ended up as.
Middle click is cool, actually. it's easy and quick. The only downside is that each application has it's own control over it's copy and pasting, so if that application is closed then you lose the copy. People plenty of times has done clipboards and deamons to restle control of these sort of things from each application, it's one of those issues that is going to be resolved once the Xorg and Freedesktop.org stuff starts kicking in. (the main reason I like it though is that it works great with the command line stuff. Long filenames, URLs and crap like that.)
see here for what is going on with this
Ok, so it evolved into something idiotic
. Anyway, you claim it will be fixed. Thus linux is not yet ready. If it was ready, it would either not need to be fixed, or already be fixed .Originally posted by: CTho9305
Ok, so it evolved into something idiotic
What?! I am insencensed.
Like there isn't anything about Windows that pisses you off.
Like why hasn't the CLI realy improved that much since DOS 7.10. Why do developer tools cost extra? Why isn't there anything like Apt-get or Yum for Windows? Why isn't there any middle click paste into a terminal? Why is it so hard to upgrade computers and keep the same OS? Why can't you change drive letters around? Why do they still have this C: D: A: crap, and not a decent directory tree yet? Why can't I have a application menu when I middle/right/left click the background?
hehe.
So everything has limitations. Doesn't mean that it's not a capable enviroment, for the most part copy/paste works just the same as in Windows, you don't have to use middle click copy if you don't want too. Hell, it doesn't even exist as far as most people are concerned.
LOTS of stuff about windows annoys me. But copy/paste, which I use constantly, works easilyOriginally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: CTho9305
Ok, so it evolved into something idiotic
What?! I am insencensed.
Like there isn't anything about Windows that pisses you off.
.Tab completion, for loops, stderr vs stdout redirection, etc. It's pretty mediocre now (big step up
).I don't see where I'm supposed to pay for these free developer tools.
Because installers became standard long ago. Packages usually include most of their dependencies.
Enable quick edit mode, and then right-click to paste.
Because windows takes more advantage of hardware it's presented, so you can't just swap out the IDE controller. Note that on linux, you'd have just as much trouble if you switched to an IDE controller you didn't have a driver for (happens all the time if you squeeze the bloat out of your kernel when you compile it).
You can. You can do it without a reboot in the NTs. You can dynamically reassign them, mount/unmount drives, etc. Very convenient. If you're asking, "why can't I rename D to C after installing a bunch of stuff and have it work?", that's like renaming /usr to /user (see below, it's just a mount point). Drives are actually referred to as \Device\somestuffidontremember.
It's for backwards compatibility. NTs can mount drives anywhere. If you moved your /usr drive to be called /user, it wouldn't work. If you try building a distro with /lib named /Libraries, you'll be pulling your hair out. Backwards compatibility is annoying, but important.
Works for me... I'm sure there are less-drastic extensions that do that. Of course, since I have shortcuts for the only apps I use on my desktop/quicklaunch/aliased in the "run" menu, there's no need.
It was just an example. Someone has to fend off the "hippie pinko trolls", as Ameesh likes to call people who don't give ~$300 every ~two years to Microsoft for miniscule feature additions, and point out GNU/Linux's imperfections now and then
.to me its a sense of knowledge. If someone who has never used linux start playing with it for the first time, it will take them a while (depending on the person of course, some picku p faster than others) to catch on. After they actually learn how to do something (such as install a prog), then the speed of installing the prog is up to the user (if you decide to take your sweet time or bang it out and of course people will say hardware does play a factor). Years of experience in the field, I've met countless computer stupid users who couldnt even figure out how to use a start menu the first couple of times they ran into the Windows OS; after they got the hang of it, they became faster at launching programs and using windows.
I guesss a person would automatically know how to race a car on a track as soon as they hit the age of 10, even though they've never done it or they've seen it done, so now they say they mastered the skill. im not gunning anyone down and i know i sound like an a$$.... learn it... master it.... be able to riup it apart and rebuild better of, out and with it. then state you dont like it and explain why....
I guesss a person would automatically know how to race a car on a track as soon as they hit the age of 10, even though they've never done it or they've seen it done, so now they say they mastered the skill. im not gunning anyone down and i know i sound like an a$$.... learn it... master it.... be able to riup it apart and rebuild better of, out and with it. then state you dont like it and explain why....
Dos 7.1 had tab completion.
But then theirs tab completion and then there is tab completion. MS's CLI is quite a bit more braindead then most.
I don't know about the rest, though.You and I know it's not anywere near the same thing. Were is the infamious Visual IDE?
Sounds like Linux has had them too then. They are called "tarballs".
Of course when your trying to uninstall stuff and upgrade from versions to versions over the period of a few years you tend to run into messes.
(but then again MS has a solution for that.. it's called "reinstall")It was just an example. Someone has to fend off the "hippie pinko trolls", as *CENSORED* likes to call people who don't give ~$300 every ~two years to Microsoft for miniscule feature additions, and point out GNU/Linux's imperfections now and then
Ya that is a unfortunate and pitiful case.
After all he's the "hippie pinko troll" (but doesn't realise it, which makes it worse), but instead of Lenon or Stalin as his idol, he has someone else in mind...
Originally posted by: CTho9305
Originally posted by: pitupepito2000
sssshhhh! don't reveal that linux user's figure out ways to be a little bit more of slackers
You have NO idea how irritating it is when moz decides to paste rather than let me scroll when I hit the mouse button. When I middle click a tab, it is supposed to close, not go to whatever is on my clipboard. Fortunately, there is a pref to disable that behavior.
There are two clipboards that are used - primary and clipboard. In many apps, if you highlight some text, then middle click somewhere else, it will copy the text to the new location. At first glance, this is very cool. That is, until you realize that the text doesn't actually get COPIED until you paste it. This means a few things. 1) you can't select text, deselect it to do something else, and then paste later 2) if the app you want to copy from gets closed / crashes, the text is gone. This is done using "primary".
"clipboard" appears to work more like the windows clipboard - you select some text, hit whatever key combo is set to copy (e.g. ctrl+c), and then you can paste elsewhere, even if you deselect the text. At first glance, this is also good, until you realize that on the backend, it's just doing a hack, and in reality, the text still isn't copied until you paste it, so again, you can't close whatever app you're copying from.
Two (well, three, but nobody uses secondary) clipboards is idiotic. Not copying to an X buffer from the app immediately is also idiotic.
That is a feature because X server is was intended to run over high speed serial connect in like 1970. So to save bandwidth when some one might highlight stuff the data isn't sent to the server.
Back in the day, it made sense to not copy to clipboard. It doesn't any more. They've fixed other things like that... for example DRI, is a new feature that wouldn't have worked then. Fix the clipboard! Then it will be closer to being ready for the desktop.
Most linux distros I've used don't install an IDE by default, or if they do, not a decent one, or if it's there, I didn't know about it (which is as good as not including it). Besides, every free GUI debugger I've used in *nix has been junk compared to MS Visual Studio - Microsoft's product is actually worth the price.
Most linux distros I've used don't install an IDE by default, or if they do, not a decent one, or if it's there, I didn't know about it (which is as good as not including it). Besides, every free GUI debugger I've used in *nix has been junk compared to MS Visual Studio - Microsoft's product is actually worth the price.
Ya, I wouldn't know anything about debuggers. The only things I've ever programmed would be smallish Python scripts. With that I just use lots of "print" commands to help me figure out what is going on. That and I try to make the code as module-like as possible with lots of "def this():" and "def that():" type things to make it easy to isolate problems. Or something like that.
But I suppose that's a different beast entirely, no memory management for me to deal with and stuff like that I guess.
As far as IDE's go you have eclipse and kdevelope among others. Most *nix developers refuse to touch the stuff. Unless you count Emacs and/or Vim with it's extensions.
But I suppose that's a different beast entirely, no memory management for me to deal with and stuff like that I guess.
As far as IDE's go you have eclipse and kdevelope among others. Most *nix developers refuse to touch the stuff. Unless you count Emacs and/or Vim with it's extensions.
you cannot compare linux and windows.. one is free and one isnt. if ms was free then you could compare.
and btw, n0cmonkey is the man. he has contributed plenty to users of anandtech forums. he has helped me personally in many instances.
Sure you can. Lots of people don't care about freedom and wouldn't mind if the future of computing for the next few decades was controlled and manipulated for the benifit of a handfull of large coporations.
So you ignore the obvious and nitpick over the details that most people don't care about. That's why we are Geeks!
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