And THIS is why I support "Racial profiling"

[Isla]

People are just idiots.

When my daughter was 14---and CLEARLY a minor---she flew down to visit grandparents. She was 'randomly chosen' and got poked about her breasts as a security measure. There wasn't anything I could do about it as we had already been separated 'for security reasons' and I didn't find out until she reached her destination.

The best I could do was explain to her that a lot people are creeps who will take advantage of being in a position of relative power.

 

[OutHouse]

Racial profiling is kinda stupid though, because how do you identify the difference between someone from say... Brazil and someone from Iraq... it's pretty difficult.

and that is why it should be called CRIMINAL PROFILING!!!

 

[Stark]

sorry to go against the grain, but airline travel is not a "right."

If you can't manage to take off your shoes and put all your metallic objects in the little basket before going through the scanner, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If you're too fat to sit in the seat, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If your haven't taught your children any manners or they generally cry for hours at a time when they're unhappy, maybe they don't need to be flying anywhere.

Most of the people I know over 80 don't travel anymore. It's a lot easier for their out of state relatives to come see them.

I agree that airport security can be a pain, but the last few times I've flown I've known what to expect and get through pretty quickly. Most of the delays come from other travellers who haven't figured out how to swiftly get through the lines.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Stark
sorry to go against the grain, but airline travel is not a "right."

If you can't manage to take off your shoes and put all your metallic objects in the little basket before going through the scanner, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If you're too fat to sit in the seat, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If your haven't taught your children any manners or they generally cry for hours at a time when they're unhappy, maybe they don't need to be flying anywhere.

Most of the people I know over 80 don't travel anymore. It's a lot easier for their out of state relatives to come see them.

I agree that airport security can be a pain, but the last few times I've flown I've known what to expect and get through pretty quickly. Most of the delays come from other travellers who haven't figured out how to swiftly get through the lines.

Man I want to punch you in the face... you make me angry.

:|

People come in all shapes and sizes... are we now going to build our transportation systems to only accomodate the lowest common denominator?... That is ridiculous.... It isnt' that fvcking difficult to make some accomodations for people who are different. People like you make me sick to my stomach. G-d help the airline industry if they ever try and turn me down for a plane ticket because of my size... or a relative because of their age.

-Max

 

[jagec]

All I know is that when I accidentally wore my boots into the airport a few years back, I got "randomly searched" three times: Just inside the airport, at the gate right before boarding the plane, at the gate right before boarding the next plane (and I hadn't left and re-entered the airport, mind you), and the lady was JUST about to pull me aside at the gate before boarding the final plane when one of the people I was travelling mentioned I'd already gotten searched 3 times...

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Whisper
Sorry, but I see nothing wrong with that. There's no way of knowing just who might pose a threat on an airplane; who might be "in on" an attempt to hijack another aircraft, or who might simply be crazy and have gotten it into his head that he was going to try and hurt someone that day. Terrorists aren't the only ones to be worried about on airplanes. So what, now we're supposed to narrow the searches to those that only seem "physically able" of causing havoc? Who knows what kind of shape someone is in, whether or not they're elderly; perhaps that person's limp is a ruse, etc. Just because someone is old, white, or an armed services veteran does not make them harmless.

I bet you support these cops' actions too, right?: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1554119

Ya actually I do....

 

[venk]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

When you start focusing on a specific profile, then those that do not fit the profile make it through. i.e. THe Shoe Bomber

But the question is whether or not you would stop more of those that do fit the profile and had ill intentions. These few exceptions you people keep bringing up are exactly that... exceptions. Also, why couldn't you stop more people who fit the profile while still mixing in random searches? Lastly, there is no reason you can't treat people with respect during a search (i.e. I'm not advocating rounding up everyone that fits a certain profile and treating them badly). But reality must intrude on your PC world at some point. Sorry.

I don't travel much by air but considering my close proximity to Canada, I venture quite a few trips up there. Since 9/11, I have been through the security checkpoint 14 times (7 Trips, one going in and one coming out) and have been stopped and had my car searched 12 times. Random searches should only occur roughly once or twice every ten trips across the border, which is roughly consistent with searches for friends of mine, have been searched.

Guess what, I'm not Middle Eastern or Arab. I'm an American Citizen of Indian decent who has no criminal record.

But I guess I look like a terrorist.

You can't understand unless you've had people treat you like a criminal, hell not even a criminal, a terrorist, a mass murderer.

When you have border patrol search through the contents of your trunk every time you cross, come back and tell me that I?m a PC crybaby.

 

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Stark
sorry to go against the grain, but airline travel is not a "right."

If you can't manage to take off your shoes and put all your metallic objects in the little basket before going through the scanner, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If you're too fat to sit in the seat, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If your haven't taught your children any manners or they generally cry for hours at a time when they're unhappy, maybe they don't need to be flying anywhere.

Most of the people I know over 80 don't travel anymore. It's a lot easier for their out of state relatives to come see them.

I agree that airport security can be a pain, but the last few times I've flown I've known what to expect and get through pretty quickly. Most of the delays come from other travellers who haven't figured out how to swiftly get through the lines.

Man I want to punch you in the face... you make me angry.

:|

People come in all shapes and sizes... are we now going to build our transportation systems to only accomodate the lowest common denominator?... That is ridiculous.... It isnt' that fvcking difficult to make some accomodations for people who are different. People like you make me sick to my stomach. G-d help the airline industry if they ever try and turn me down for a plane ticket because of my size... or a relative because of their age.

-Max

Im gonna have to throw my opinion in here and say that if you are too obease to fly in an airplane because you cant sit in the seat, perhaps that should tell you something about your dietary habits.

Other than that, I disagree with what start said...you cant control aging, and sometimes kids...you can control what you eat.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Im gonna have to throw my opinion in here and say that if you are too obease to fly in an airplane because you cant sit in the seat, perhaps that should tell you something about your dietary habits.

Other than that, I disagree with what start said...you cant control aging, and sometimes kids...you can control what you eat.

yeah, I don't think that the airlines should refuse people just because they're fat, but there is certainly nothing wrong with making them pay for another seat if they can't fit in one. There's nothing worse than sitting next to someone whose rolls of fat are oozing into YOUR seat...

 

[cronos]

Originally posted by: Isla
People are just idiots.

When my daughter was 14---and CLEARLY a minor---she flew down to visit grandparents. She was 'randomly chosen' and got poked about her breasts as a security measure. There wasn't anything I could do about it as we had already been separated 'for security reasons' and I didn't find out until she reached her destination.

The best I could do was explain to her that a lot people are creeps who will take advantage of being in a position of relative power.

that sucks. btw, are you caucasian? if you are, do you think you would be more mad or less mad if you're not caucasian and the same thing happened to your daughter?

a friend of mine was traveling with his family (wife, 3 yr old girl, 1 yr old boy. nice young family from southeast asia), and they actually searched the kids (clothes, shoes, etc)!! pi**ed him off big time, but there was nothing he could do about it. the 3 yr old little girl was just standing there, confused of what these strangers were doing to her.

the point i'm making is that i think that's why people will never get along, there's too much prejudice going on both ways. i can't blame my friend of being more pi**ed off because he felt they were searching and touching his kids mainly because of their skin color. i wish i could blame the officers, but they were just doing their job and 'search every asian, including their kids' might be one of their tasks.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Stark
sorry to go against the grain, but airline travel is not a "right."

If you can't manage to take off your shoes and put all your metallic objects in the little basket before going through the scanner, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If you're too fat to sit in the seat, maybe you don't need to be flying anywhere.

If your haven't taught your children any manners or they generally cry for hours at a time when they're unhappy, maybe they don't need to be flying anywhere.

Most of the people I know over 80 don't travel anymore. It's a lot easier for their out of state relatives to come see them.

I agree that airport security can be a pain, but the last few times I've flown I've known what to expect and get through pretty quickly. Most of the delays come from other travellers who haven't figured out how to swiftly get through the lines.

Man I want to punch you in the face... you make me angry.

:|

People come in all shapes and sizes... are we now going to build our transportation systems to only accomodate the lowest common denominator?... That is ridiculous.... It isnt' that fvcking difficult to make some accomodations for people who are different. People like you make me sick to my stomach. G-d help the airline industry if they ever try and turn me down for a plane ticket because of my size... or a relative because of their age.

-Max

who is "we"?

Are YOU an owner of an airline... a private company that provides a service to make a profit? Because the last I checked, the US doesn't have a state run airline (without discussing subsidies). As a result, you and I have nothing to say regarding the size of the seats in airlines (other than not flying carriers that don't give enough space in coach). And like it or not, these seats are ALREADY designed for the average human body.

If someone rolls to the airport after being surgically removed from their computer chair and can't fit between the armrests, the airline has the right to make them buy a new seat or kick them off the plane if the plane is full.

I work in IT and our department has plenty of 300+ guys in it. I've seen them fit into seats at the ballpark and into the seat on Southwest. I know my co-workers are fat slobs because I eat with them everyday and they admit to it.

I'm sorry, but if someone gets so big that they can't fit into the seat, maybe, just maybe, they need to take some personal responsibility for the state of their body and do something about it other than claiming to be a victim that everyone else has to coddle through life. And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're arrogant, lazy and stupid.

 

[huesmann]

How do you know some terry isn't going to try to hijack a plane disguised as a feeble old man?

 

[StageLeft]

I support it, because it's simply idiotic to pay no more attention to a 28 year old scraggly bearded guy from Libya than a 16 year old ditzy blond. Simple common sense. Legal or not, police use profiling on people in their regular jobs, and could not operate properly without it.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I support it, because it's simply idiotic to pay no more attention to a 28 year old scraggly bearded guy from Libya than a 16 year old ditzy blond. Simple common sense. Legal or not, police use profiling on people in their regular jobs, and could not operate properly without it.

Right, I agree on who is more LIKELY to hijack, but as we learned from 9/11 Al-Qaida and others are going to exploit known weaknesses. Now if that means recruiting ditzy blondes... then they might just do that.

 

[JeffCos]

I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but I thought I'd just reply to it because of my signature...btw, I live in NJ.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I support it, because it's simply idiotic to pay no more attention to a 28 year old scraggly bearded guy from Libya than a 16 year old ditzy blond. Simple common sense. Legal or not, police use profiling on people in their regular jobs, and could not operate properly without it.

Right, I agree on who is more LIKELY to hijack, but as we learned from 9/11 Al-Qaida and others are going to exploit known weaknesses. Now if that means recruiting ditzy blondes... then they might just do that.

Well until they do, let's target those who are MUCH easier to get. Many countries do racial profile, without hiding it, and it's STILL the "typical" middle eastern person doing it, because it's very difficult to recruit a lot of competent ditzy 16 year old's or middle aged women on crutches.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Citrix
its NOT Racial Profiling!!! :|

Its CRIMINAL PROFILING!!!!!!
and yes i support it as well.

Actually, it is not legitimate criminal profiling; the OP is either suggesting that old people, or white people (not sure which) should be given a free pass. White guys with grey hair have blown things up before, and will probably do it again.

Real profiling involves weighting many factors, not only one, and doesn't involve 'free passes' for anyone.

😕

I'm confused too - what are you trying to say here?

If you follow P&N, you'll see that this has been brought up before, and I'm not uniformly in favour of ignoring any useful information. But I made a pretty lengthy argument for why racial profiling would result in poor coverage of potential threats.

Ruling out old white men isn't any more intelligent than ruling in all young brown men. It sounds like they could have treated the man with more respect, but that's a training issue.

 

[SuperTool]

So you support racial profiling because you only want middle eastern looking people to be inconvenienced for your security?