but put things in context, that was the 18th century, where an empire loomed at the borders of America to the north. Things are very different now, do you still fear the king of England? The founding fathers also condoned & liberally partook in slavery, so it doesnt follow that everything they said and did was holy. We can question the validity of that amendment in the 21st century, no? i think its quite outdated by today's standards dont you think? im not against guns per say, but i dont think private citizens have any business owning guns, it should be reserved for law enforcement and the military, albeit that just seems like the most logical conclusion. What's your arguement for owning guns aside from this 2nd amendment? (im not american btw, im canadian, and its hard as heck to get a gun here in Toronto, Ontario. most ppl just give up trying from what i hear).
but put things in context, that was the 18th century, where an empire loomed at the borders of America to the north. Things are very different now, do you still fear the king of England? The founding fathers also condoned & liberally partook in slavery, so it doesnt follow that everything they said and did was holy. We can question the validity of that amendment in the 21st century, no? i think its quite outdated by today's standards dont you think? im not against guns per say, but i dont think private citizens have any business owning guns, it should be reserved for law enforcement and the military, albeit that just seems like the most logical conclusion. What's your arguement for owning guns aside from this 2nd amendment? (im not american btw, im canadian, and its hard as heck to get a gun here in Toronto, Ontario. most ppl just give up trying from what i hear).
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
We have a much more violent culture than Canada so I'm not sure how discussion is relevant but as far as having guns I had no problem bear & moose hunting in Ontario or Alberta. My friend owns a lodge up there (@eagle lake) and has tons of guns too.
In violent USA guns prevent lots of crimes. I read a story at least once a week of an aborted rape or robbery when gun owner shoots the felon. Besides right to self defense is a fundamental right no one should be able to take away. Someone bigger stronger faster younger has no right to victimize physically weak or elderly people. Guns are equalizer. All these school shootings could have been prevented, the type where gun yielding psycho is roaming the halls for hours executing at will, if only one or two had guns.
As far as govt oppression. a few hundred thousand hunters with high powered rifles and optics here could make the mujahideen in Iraq look like a school yard brawl. Never discount the power of small arms from a determined resistance.
Lots of reasons to own them besides hunting.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
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I personally am dumping many guns because safe is overfull with guns and ammo. I had a gun show problem for years and was a spend thrift. Now I have over 20 guns I don't shoot and about 10000 rounds of ammo. I'd like to keep it down to one good pistol, one rifle probably a .308, and two shotguns my turkey gun and upland game gun. I'm waiting until Obama hysteria reaches full throttle before selling.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
johnny buys a gun. He moves 5 years later. Johnny doesn't know or remember about that the Feds are watching so he forgets to report. He's now a criminal. Wonderful.
Which was exactly the argument Jefferson and others had against even creating a Bill of Rights.
But hey, when you can get your entire edumacation from YouTube and stupid websites, why bother reading actual history books written by scholars, historians, and peer reviewed journals.
Far better to listen to everything on the internet, especially with regards to the Constitution, BoR, and finance/economics.
Johnny should stop smoking weed....
Owning a gun is not something you simply forget about and if you actually shoot your gun it makes it even tougher to forget about.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! A national gun registry. Scary!!:roll:
Considering how it takes the Federal government to get states to cooperate with each other and considering how easy it is for criminals to cross state lines, something like this should've been done ages ago.
Considering how it takes the Federal government to get states to cooperate with each other and considering how easy it is for criminals to cross state lines, something like this should've been done ages ago.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
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Ignorance of the law has never been an excuse. Furthermore, while I have a problem with any infringement, there is some good basis for this yearly update if you believe in back ground checks in the first place, which even NRA is on board with. Did the person go crazy since purchasing gun? Did his criminal status change? and so on.
Some (or their friends or kin) do. That will just make law enforcement's job easier should they flee across state line.
Again, we have a federal system, not a centralized one. In situations like this, a more centralized setup makes more sense considering how easy it is for Americans to travel between states and how difficult it can be for states to cooperate. Besides, if all 50 states wanted to cooperate better it would have to be done through the Federal Government.
Doc Savage Fan
Lifer
- Nov 30, 2006
- 15,456
- 389
- 121
More laws...more taxes...more control...isn't America great! :roll: Tell me again...I'm kinda slow...why is this a good thing?
hmm...this is relatively tame for the typical AT gun thread
to the op - paranoid much? how about "and more paranoia begins"?
my favorite quote in this thread is "Criminals don't have registered guns. One can go downtown or in the meth hills and buy an AR15 serials wiped for $200 a .45 for $100, etc. This system, like all control and registration measures, will not impact criminals whatsoever."
This highlights the problem with people that are pro-gun without any common sense - are you telling me there is absolutely nothing that can be done to make things more difficult for criminals to acquire guns in this country?
I love the "you can go downtown and buy an AR15 w/serials wiped for $200" myth. Criminals steal guns or buy them, it's a rather simple equation. No, they don't buy them from gun dealers, they buy them from people who legally buy them - and sell them at a profit to criminals - heaven forbid we put any type of restrictions on how many guns you can buy though, wouldn't want to infringe on anyone's rights.........
you continue to believe that guns grow on trees, and that we just have to suck it up and accept that we live in the most violent country on the planet that isn't the site of a war
Just for the record, I'm not for banning guns in this country, but I think we should all be ashamed at the amount of gun-related violence we simply accept here, it's sad really.
Finally - to quote the founding fathers as 'proof' that any imposition on buying a gun is evil - these are the same people who said that women couldn't vote and that slavery was ok.
to the op - paranoid much? how about "and more paranoia begins"?
my favorite quote in this thread is "Criminals don't have registered guns. One can go downtown or in the meth hills and buy an AR15 serials wiped for $200 a .45 for $100, etc. This system, like all control and registration measures, will not impact criminals whatsoever."
This highlights the problem with people that are pro-gun without any common sense - are you telling me there is absolutely nothing that can be done to make things more difficult for criminals to acquire guns in this country?
I love the "you can go downtown and buy an AR15 w/serials wiped for $200" myth. Criminals steal guns or buy them, it's a rather simple equation. No, they don't buy them from gun dealers, they buy them from people who legally buy them - and sell them at a profit to criminals - heaven forbid we put any type of restrictions on how many guns you can buy though, wouldn't want to infringe on anyone's rights.........
you continue to believe that guns grow on trees, and that we just have to suck it up and accept that we live in the most violent country on the planet that isn't the site of a war
Just for the record, I'm not for banning guns in this country, but I think we should all be ashamed at the amount of gun-related violence we simply accept here, it's sad really.
Finally - to quote the founding fathers as 'proof' that any imposition on buying a gun is evil - these are the same people who said that women couldn't vote and that slavery was ok.
Well I'd say registering guns is about as basic a form of regulation as you can possibly get?
Your car is registered. Your boat. Your pet. Your marriage. But your gun? The one thing that specifically is referenced as needing regulation in the Bill of Rights? Nah. Bad idea.
Or if you want to go by the presumed intended meaning of the phrase "well regulated (militia)" in the bill of rights, this whole argument is moot.
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