And so the war begins

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: TranceGOD
Oil has nothing to do with the stock market moving as it has. The stock market recently has been moved more on news than strong financial results of companies. Even if it were about oil, the time it would take for the US to benefit from "cheap oil" would be far off into the future. Your average investor is scared to put his money into the volatile stock market when his country COULD be at war. This uncertainty keeps everyone off the table, resulting in low demand, hence the falling of stock prices. Once the coutnry is certain that war is inevitable, they have nothing to fear, so the money comes back out to take advantage of low prices.

As a stock market player myself, i would have to disagree... if the oil price were falling, it would not only affect the oil price, but other industy prices as well...

You seem to be extremely uninformed and i bet my butt you are NOT a stock market dealer...

The results of industy companies are expenses-incomes, if expenses (oil) are getting lower, incomess will incrase... even you, get that, now don't you...

Your average investor is looking for a medium term investment, right now, exxon is a good choice... wonder why?

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: maladroit
I don't understand, why does being at war have a positive effect on the economy?

Can you spell oil?

More like the ending of months of uncertainty. The Iraq situation has been a drag on the economy because everything has been on hold with the UN. Now that a path is clear, confidence can return to the economy.

Yup previously, no oil, no much oil...

Try as you may, you cannot say that the released embargo (us being the no1 importer of iraki oil) does not matter... but i bet you WILL try, or someone else...

Keep hanging in there, I know you don't have much else to go with, but you gotta keep your integrity, ya know.

Am i the only one who think that the US have problems with saying that iraki oil does not matter while they are the no1 importer?

Uhhh I though that was France.....

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: SnapIT
Well, if you do not get what a better oil price can do for the US industy, i doubt anyone can explain it to you...

Actually, Bush would likely prefer the price go up so his freinds in the industry make more money. but we have already stated that the US is not interested in the oil. if we were, we would own the oil producing parts of Iraq after '91.

IMHO the first gulf war was about oil. It was about protecting the stability and security of the middle east (and therby oil producing) countries. This helped ensure that world oil prices remained predictable.

If Saddam had been allowed to get away with occupying Kuwait - might he have tried his luck elsewhere? (Saudi Arabia?) The only reason such a broad international agreement was reached was due to the importance of that region.

Andy

 

[LH]

Sure we will need more weapons produced, but this isn't like the 1940's when we needed mass amounts of factory workers. Most things can be done by machine and computer.

Not just weapons.

See the rebuilding of Iraq will be done by private companies in the US, and our allies(that are with us vs Iraq). Thats going to create alot of jobs, not just in Iraq but in the countries that are home to the various private companies. The short term effect of the war will be good on the economy, the long term effect of the war(5-10 years) will be even better on the economy.

Its not just the US economy that will be helped, but the world economy.

However that is not the reason we are fighting this war. We are fighting this was because Iraq and Saddam have refused to follow cease fire agreements and 17 UN resolutions.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: TranceGOD

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: 308nato

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: maladroit
I don't understand, why does being at war have a positive effect on the economy?

Can you spell oil?

More like the ending of months of uncertainty. The Iraq situation has been a drag on the economy because everything has been on hold with the UN. Now that a path is clear, confidence can return to the economy.

Yup previously, no oil, no much oil...

Try as you may, you connot say that the released embargo (us being the no1 importer of iraki oil) does not matter... but i bet you WILL try, or someone else...

It doesn't matter. Please answer my question.

Well, if you do not get what a better oil price can do for the US industy, i doubt anyone can explain it to you...

Let me jump in,

The US industry is not about OIL! It's about products and services, demand and supply. If there were FREE OIL at all gas pumps and no demand for those goods and serives, your stock market would suffer.

The direction of the U.S stock market is NOT inversely proportional to the price of gas at your pump. Oil could reduce the cost of transportation, reduce the operational cost of companies etc, but would not have a direct effect.

Everything stabilizes in the long run. So if prices fell to 0.50 per gallon and stayed that way for a while (10 years) and then bumped to $1 per gallon, everyone would complain all over again.

Ah, but you could be correct, if you actually knew how it works, which you obviously do not...

You are halfway correct, the US industry is about oil, products made from oil, and services, to state that if there was free oil at gas pumps the industry would die is just stupid...

Gas and diesel, even oil that is burned in furnaces is refined oil, if the prices of raw oil decreases the economy of the US get's better, it is really not that hard to understand...

But you refuse to get it...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: 308nato

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: maladroit
I don't understand, why does being at war have a positive effect on the economy?

Can you spell oil?

More like the ending of months of uncertainty. The Iraq situation has been a drag on the economy because everything has been on hold with the UN. Now that a path is clear, confidence can return to the economy.

Yup previously, no oil, no much oil...

Try as you may, you connot say that the released embargo (us being the no1 importer of iraki oil) does not matter... but i bet you WILL try, or someone else...

It doesn't matter. Please answer my question.

Which country is the most oil dependant, which country buys most oil from Irak? (eventhough the french seem to do that, they are not even close)

If you do not need the damn oil, why the fvck do you import it and are still in need? (last was norwegian oil imports for 90* the price... cool huh)

 

[TubStain]

Originally posted by: maladroit

Originally posted by: TranceGOD
Oil has nothing to do with the stock market moving as it has. The stock market recently has been moved more on news than strong financial results of companies. Even if it were about oil, the time it would take for the US to benefit from "cheap oil" would be far off into the future. Your average investor is scared to put his money into the volatile stock market when his country COULD be at war. This uncertainty keeps everyone off the table, resulting in low demand, hence the falling of stock prices. Once the coutnry is certain that war is inevitable, they have nothing to fear, so the money comes back out to take advantage of low prices.

That just seems silly to me. If you're afraid that your country is going to war, you won't invest. But then you KNOW your country is going to war, so you invest away! Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Yeah it seems stupid, I totally understand. Let's see if I can explain it differently:

Investing is about certainty/risks/anticipation. Think a few months ago, stocks were higher than they were before the rally that started this week. People didnt know if Bush was going to go to war for certain, so they decided, that they dont want to take the risk of the stocks falling, since they all know that other people will get paranoid as well. So they sell their stocks, when everyone does this, the price starts falling, and falling and falling, since everyone is uncertain and wants to keep their money as cash. Hence the markets start falling. Now bush says we are going to war no matter what. Everyone now knows that it is inevitable. There is nothing to fear about their money losing more value.

Why would it lose value? We are the stronger nation, chances of it being a short war are high (or so the experts say) so we should be confident in our economy turning back up, so we should invest in it, since it is at all time lows. What better time to be buying then now?


Make any sense? I dunno if I can explain any better.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: maladroit
I don't understand, why does being at war have a positive effect on the economy?

Can you spell oil?

More like the ending of months of uncertainty. The Iraq situation has been a drag on the economy because everything has been on hold with the UN. Now that a path is clear, confidence can return to the economy.

Yup previously, no oil, no much oil...

Try as you may, you cannot say that the released embargo (us being the no1 importer of iraki oil) does not matter... but i bet you WILL try, or someone else...

Keep hanging in there, I know you don't have much else to go with, but you gotta keep your integrity, ya know.

Am i the only one who think that the US have problems with saying that iraki oil does not matter while they are the no1 importer?

Uhhh I though that was France.....

Oh, well, then you were wrong, the US is the main importer, as far as anyone knows france si no3 on the list, and not getting any now....

 

[TubStain]

Ah, but you could be correct, if you actually knew how it works, which you obviously do not...

You are halfway correct, the US industry is about oil, products made from oil, and services, to state that if there was free oil at gas pumps the industry would die is just stupid...

Gas and diesel, even oil that is burned in furnaces is refined oil, if the prices of raw oil decreases the economy of the US get's better, it is really not that hard to understand...

But you refuse to get it...

I actually am a stock market player. Day trader in fact.

I did NOT say that if there were free oil at gas pumps, the industry would die. What I meant to say was that the industry would stabilize with the new prices. You are talking about immediate gains in profit from the cheaper oil. I'm talking much longer term than you.

plz do not take my comments as being hostile towards you.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: SnapIT
Well, if you do not get what a better oil price can do for the US industy, i doubt anyone can explain it to you...

Actually, Bush would likely prefer the price go up so his freinds in the industry make more money. but we have already stated that the US is not interested in the oil. if we were, we would own the oil producing parts of Iraq after '91.

IMHO the first gulf war was about oil. It was about protecting the stability and security of the middle east (and therby oil producing) countries. This helped ensure that world oil prices remained predictable.

If Saddam had been allowed to get away with occupying Kuwait - might he have tried his luck elsewhere? (Saudi Arabia?) The only reason such a broad international agreement was reached was due to the importance of that region.

Andy

Well, then you are totally wrong, Irak attacked and invaded Kuwait... the UN followed the rules and said no...

The rules are simple, if you are under attack, you can defend yourself, and if just was just, the world would defend irak atm...

I would have signed up...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: TranceGOD

Ah, but you could be correct, if you actually knew how it works, which you obviously do not...

You are halfway correct, the US industry is about oil, products made from oil, and services, to state that if there was free oil at gas pumps the industry would die is just stupid...

Gas and diesel, even oil that is burned in furnaces is refined oil, if the prices of raw oil decreases the economy of the US get's better, it is really not that hard to understand...

But you refuse to get it...

I actually am a stock market player. Day trader in fact.

I did NOT say that if there were free oil at gas pumps, the industry would die. What I meant to say was that the industry would stabilize with the new prices. You are talking about immediate gains in profit from the cheaper oil. I'm talking much longer term than you.

plz do not take my comments as being hostile towards you.

Heh, well, i just assumed you were not, as you were so completely off base... i am sorry, and no, i will not percieve your comments as hostile...

The industry will always adjust and therefore your point is moot... but this is a specieal case, i have seen european rates go down while prices also go down for a few hours... i say.. time to buy before morning that is my recommendation, that is what i will do..

Noone knows how long this will take, let's play while the play is good...

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: LH

Sure we will need more weapons produced, but this isn't like the 1940's when we needed mass amounts of factory workers. Most things can be done by machine and computer.

Not just weapons.

See the rebuilding of Iraq will be done by private companies in the US, and our allies(that are with us vs Iraq). Thats going to create alot of jobs, not just in Iraq but in the countries that are home to the various private companies. The short term effect of the war will be good on the economy, the long term effect of the war(5-10 years) will be even better on the economy.

Its not just the US economy that will be helped, but the world economy.

However that is not the reason we are fighting this war. We are fighting this was because Iraq and Saddam have refused to follow cease fire agreements and 17 UN resolutions.

Some good points there, that clears it up for me. Thanks!

 

[xirtam]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: maladroit
I don't understand, why does being at war have a positive effect on the economy?

Can you spell oil?

More like the ending of months of uncertainty. The Iraq situation has been a drag on the economy because everything has been on hold with the UN. Now that a path is clear, confidence can return to the economy.

Yup previously, no oil, no much oil...

Try as you may, you cannot say that the released embargo (us being the no1 importer of iraki oil) does not matter... but i bet you WILL try, or someone else...

Keep hanging in there, I know you don't have much else to go with, but you gotta keep your integrity, ya know.

Am i the only one who think that the US have problems with saying that iraki oil does not matter while they are the no1 importer?

Uhhh I though that was France.....

Oh, well, then you were wrong, the US is the main importer, as far as anyone knows france si no3 on the list, and not getting any now....

Anybody else find this annoying? Not ready to start a war over it quite yet, but still...

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: maladroit

Originally posted by: LH

Sure we will need more weapons produced, but this isn't like the 1940's when we needed mass amounts of factory workers. Most things can be done by machine and computer.

Not just weapons.

See the rebuilding of Iraq will be done by private companies in the US, and our allies(that are with us vs Iraq). Thats going to create alot of jobs, not just in Iraq but in the countries that are home to the various private companies. The short term effect of the war will be good on the economy, the long term effect of the war(5-10 years) will be even better on the economy.

Its not just the US economy that will be helped, but the world economy.

However that is not the reason we are fighting this war. We are fighting this was because Iraq and Saddam have refused to follow cease fire agreements and 17 UN resolutions.

Some good points there, that clears it up for me. Thanks!

Who rebuilds Iraq will be decided by the Iraqi's and the UN (check out Blair's last speech). If they decide to let/not let anyone participate then they'll just have to live with it!

Andy

 

[Kev]

Anybody else find this annoying? Not ready to start a war over it quite yet, but still...

According to AT's webmaster, most people enjoy reading endless strings of quotes.

Beats me as to why...

 

[TubStain]

Who rebuilds Iraq will be decided by the Iraqi's and the UN (check out Blair's last speech). If they decide to let/not let anyone participate then they'll just have to live with it!

Andy

I agree.

Saying the rebuilding of Iraq is what caused the stock markets to move up recently is false. If you looked carefully, certainty in any direction caused the market to move up. If there was some sign/news of peace, the stock market took a temporary breather.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: SnapIT
Well, if you do not get what a better oil price can do for the US industy, i doubt anyone can explain it to you...

Actually, Bush would likely prefer the price go up so his freinds in the industry make more money. but we have already stated that the US is not interested in the oil. if we were, we would own the oil producing parts of Iraq after '91.

IMHO the first gulf war was about oil. It was about protecting the stability and security of the middle east (and therby oil producing) countries. This helped ensure that world oil prices remained predictable.

If Saddam had been allowed to get away with occupying Kuwait - might he have tried his luck elsewhere? (Saudi Arabia?) The only reason such a broad international agreement was reached was due to the importance of that region.

Andy

Well, then you are totally wrong, Irak attacked and invaded Kuwait... the UN followed the rules and said no...

The rules are simple, if you are under attack, you can defend yourself, and if just was just, the world would defend irak atm...

I would have signed up...

I'm sorry - but I think you're "totally wrong" as you so kindly put it. Look at the history of the UN sanctioning wars (i'll give you a clue, it = 2 and there's been ~150 in the last 60 or so years). The only reason it did so then is because of the large international support for action - and the only reason that happened if for the reasons I explained above. To deny the reasoning behind the gulf war is IMHO to ignore the way in which the world works.

I'd like to believe your answer and I'm sure it was *part* (and the right part also IMHO) of the reason to act - but I'm afraid my more cynical answer makes more sense to me.

Andy

 

[etech]

If the US is so damn hellbent on getting oil from Iraq that they would send 300,00 of our troops over there then why did the US Senate that voted for that action then today vote not to allow drilling in ANWR?

Answer me that one SnapIT and Andy.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: etech
If the US is so damn hellbent on getting oil from Iraq that they would send 300,00 of our troops over there then why did the US Senate that voted for that action then today vote not to allow drilling in ANWR?

Answer me that one SnapIT and Andy.

I'm talking about the last war - I'm talking about the security of the oil region - not ownership.

Andy

 

[InFecTed]

Originally posted by: tec699
cool... I need to get some buttered popcorn for this great movie!!! Do you guys think CNN will show the movie all night?

Yeah!!! A great movie indeed, war is entertaining isn't it? Idiot...