And ANOTHER school shooting

[Fritzo]

and yet another? https://twitter.com/AP/status/652540058407424000

Good grief...two a day now?

 

[jlee]

Technically, guns aren't protected under the constitution either. The right to form militias are, and last I checked nobody has signed up for militia duty. People tend to skip past the first part of "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," and go right to the "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" part.

Seems the courts generally disagree with you there, otherwise I would think they'd be banned by now.

 

[LTC8K6]

This isn't what I would consider a school shooting, not in a classroom on campus, this is some idiot who pulled a gun on someone at 1am. Also, he didn't legally obtain that gun, he was 18, you can't buy a handgun until you are 21.

It's 18 for a handgun in Arizona.

 

[DrPizza]

I wonder how much of this is a result of such sensationalized media coverage? We already know there are copycat crimes. It's well researched that how a suicide case is portrayed in the media will affect others, resulting in an increase or decrease in suicides in the near future.

Can't infringe on the first amendment either though, I guess.

 

[Platypus]

Good grief...two a day now?

what do you expect when nothing is ever done about the problem?

 

[OverVolt]

Phew! Under 5 and doesn't count as a mass shooting.

 

[OverVolt]

I wonder how much of this is a result of such sensationalized media coverage? We already know there are copycat crimes. It's well researched that how a suicide case is portrayed in the media will affect others, resulting in an increase or decrease in suicides in the near future.

Can't infringe on the first amendment either though, I guess.

It was an argument at a frat.

Losing it Dr. Pizza! I'm telling ya!

 

[ultimatebob]

Good coverage here:
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131
And:
http://www.theonion.com/article/man-cant-believe-obama-would-use-tragedy-push-anti-51455

Bah... The Onion is written by a bunch of New York City hippies who have probably never held a gun in their lives. I'm not sure if they could even figure out how to reload the damn thing without shooting themselves.

 

[KeithP]

I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd like to think we don't need any form of gun control in the US, but the fact that compact, easily hidden, and easily accessible death machines are available to anyone that suddenly snaps and decides to take some lives makes me think we need to ban handguns.

That is because you are a simpleton. Fix that and you won't have such thoughts in the future.

-KeithP

 

[OverVolt]

That is because you are a simpleton. Fix that and you won't have such thoughts in the future.

-KeithP

Fritzo is the man you leave Fritzo alone if you are gonna be like that!



:awe:

 

[nakedfrog]

what do you expect when nothing is ever done about the problem?

 

[OverVolt]

Comedians all seem to be toting the same line.

http://www.theonion.com/article/man-cant-believe-obama-would-use-tragedy-push-anti-51455

Thats because its funny. But it isn't right.

This is one case where I don't think they hit the nail on the head like they normally do. Its just a cheap shot.

You guys are jumping to conclusions because I just saw this on TV and it was an argument that turned into a shooting at a frat that was "unrelated to frat activities."

So probably about a girl or something dumb.

 

[BUTCH1]

It's almost a part of our culture now, you know? It seems with the Internet always showing us extreme things, people feel they have to do something extreme to be noticed.

This was not a lone gunman armed to the teeth looking to be headline news, this was a confrontation that escalated, it wasn't about anyone being "noticed" whatsoever.

 

[Ruptga]

Comedians all seem to be toting the same line.

http://www.theonion.com/article/man-cant-believe-obama-would-use-tragedy-push-anti-51455

Thats because its funny. But it isn't right.

This is one case where I don't think they hit the nail on the head like they normally do. Its just a cheap shot.

You guys are jumping to conclusions because I just saw this on TV and it was an argument that turned into a shooting at a frat that was "unrelated to frat activities."

So probably about a girl or something dumb.

That it's at a frat or "not technically a mass shooting" is irrelevant; we're not talking about it because of just this incident. The US is pretty unique in its gun culture, and what do we have to show for it other than a bunch of dead people? We're not keeping any police or government forces in check with it, they're all armed with military grade hardware and could take a dump down our collective necks if our collective firepower were all that stood in their way. We're not keeping crazies or gangs in check with it either, if anything they have better access to weapons because they're better motivated. Who are we really kidding?

Now this is the part where I'm expected to explain that I'm not a "gun grabber", that I'm a hunter, and that I like to eat game despite the heretical opinions I just expressed. Those things are all true, but you know what? Fuck you. I shouldn't have to defend my integrity just because I think our redneck obsession with firearms has gotten out out of control. If you didn't jump to conclusions about my political and sexual preferences when you read the first part of this post, this mini-rant does not apply to you - have a good day sir. Otherwise, gfy, tpad, and stfu in whichever order suits you best. Some of us are less interested in flag waving than we are in the end results, and we're better off without your partisan bullshit.

 

[OverVolt]

That it's at a frat or "not technically a mass shooting" is irrelevant; we're not talking about it because of just this incident. The US is pretty unique in its gun culture, and what do we have to show for it other than a bunch of dead people? We're not keeping any police or government forces in check with it, they're all armed with military grade hardware and could take a dump down our collective necks if our collective firepower were all that stood in their way. We're not keeping crazies or gangs in check with it either, if anything they have better access to weapons because they're better motivated. Who are we really kidding?

Now this is the part where I'm expected to explain that I'm not a "gun grabber", that I'm a hunter, and that I like to eat game despite the heretical opinions I just expressed. Those things are all true, but you know what? Fuck you. I shouldn't have to defend my integrity just because I think our redneck obsession with firearms has gotten out out of control. If you didn't jump to conclusions about my political and sexual preferences when you read the first part of this post, this mini-rant does not apply to you - have a good day sir. Otherwise, gfy, tpad, and stfu in whichever order suits you best. Some of us are less interested in flag waving than we are in the end results, and we're better off without your partisan bullshit.

Have you seen the police in Brazil.

 

[Ns1]

Have you seen the police in Brazil.

obamanotbad.jpg

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That it's at a frat or "not technically a mass shooting" is irrelevant; we're not talking about it because of just this incident. The US is pretty unique in its gun culture, and what do we have to show for it other than a bunch of dead people? We're not keeping any police or government forces in check with it, they're all armed with military grade hardware and could take a dump down our collective necks if our collective firepower were all that stood in their way. We're not keeping crazies or gangs in check with it either, if anything they have better access to weapons because they're better motivated. Who are we really kidding?

Now this is the part where I'm expected to explain that I'm not a "gun grabber", that I'm a hunter, and that I like to eat game despite the heretical opinions I just expressed. Those things are all true, but you know what? Fuck you. I shouldn't have to defend my integrity just because I think our redneck obsession with firearms has gotten out out of control. If you didn't jump to conclusions about my political and sexual preferences when you read the first part of this post, this mini-rant does not apply to you - have a good day sir. Otherwise, gfy, tpad, and stfu in whichever order suits you best. Some of us are less interested in flag waving than we are in the end results, and we're better off without your partisan bullshit.

I couldn't care less about hunters and hobbyists tbh. The fact of the matter is that there are hundreds of thousands of legitimate defensive firearm uses every year, and plenty of ways to reduce firearm violence that don't involve disarming people to a level such that gangs and spree killers can no longer use guns.

 

[Ruptga]

Have you seen the police in Brazil.

Thanks to Ns1, yes I have. So what are you getting at? That things could be worse, that our cops could be like theirs? They have vests and assault rifles, so do our police. That they're corrupt? So are ours, though not to the same degree. Do you think private arms are keeping our cops more honest? If anything they're making our cops worse, since they easily justify anything by saying that they thought someone was reaching for a gun. The rule of law is what holds corruption in check, not threats of violence, otherwise Somalia would be a paragon of civilization.

 

[JulesMaximus]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...n-arizona-university-school-officials-n441561



I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd like to think we don't need any form of gun control in the US, but the fact that compact, easily hidden, and easily accessible death machines are available to anyone that suddenly snaps and decides to take some lives makes me think we need to ban handguns.

I keep hearing "then only criminals will have guns!", but the people doing these mass shootings are usually not criminals---they're nuts! One week they're perfectly sane, the next they get a F on a test or their girlfriend breaks up with them, and the next thing you know a room full of people are laying dead after 5 seconds of pressing a trigger.

I don't know...the cat might have already be let out of the bag, but I just do not see the need for citizens to have access to handguns. There are 32 handgun homicides for every legitimate shooting, so they're obviously not being used for protection.

I tend to agree with you on this... and I own 5 handguns.

Never once have I had to use one for protection in 25 years of gun ownership.

 

[SP33Demon]

Fritzo is the man you leave Fritzo alone if you are gonna be like that!

What are you gonna do, shoot him? 😀

 

[SP33Demon]

That happens a lot more frequently than the classic school shooting. Probably a drug deal gone bad. Hell, that kind of stuff happens every so often here in Canada and we have very strict gun laws. If someone wants to hurt someone that badly, they find a way.

As an outsider, I've long found the whole gun debate in the States to be a smokescreen for larger issues. Neither side wants to confront the single biggest question: what makes people resort to violence in the first place.

Countries like Switzerland have lax gun laws but relatively low violent crime. Where as places like Chicago with strict gun laws have high rates of violent crime. Logically, the problem in the US must be cultural and/or social. Money would be far better spent on urban renewal, education, and encouraging economic development. Good, stable jobs that pay a living wage.

As for the crazies, that's a different situation. Most recent shootings involved individuals that showed no outward proclivity towards violence. They just snapped one day. The scary thing is those individuals would qualify for a gun license even in strict jurisdictions. You could do mandatory psyche tests, but then you'd run the risk of civil rights challenges. Part of the problem is a lack mental health awareness, and a lack of funding for mental health care. People don't seek help, help may not be available or affordable, or those around them pass off warning signs as eccentricities.

The only well thought out post in the thread. kudos.

Good stable jobs that pay a living wage is something this country hasn't had in a long time. People are snapping and more violent because of the have and have not gap that is growing. E.g. You're either making $38/hr in Illinois which makes it worth it not to be on welfare or you're not. This is referring to the Illinois study:
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-warped-welfare-system-traps-families-in-poverty/ A lot of these kids at college know that the job market sucks and they may have to go home and live with mom and dad. That means they aren't going to have much to live for which makes them angrier which could mean they will become violent. Add in the increased BS glorification of violence and drugs in our culture (hollywood, tv) and we are a ticking time bomb.

 

[CZroe]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...n-arizona-university-school-officials-n441561







I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd like to think we don't need any form of gun control in the US, but the fact that compact, easily hidden, and easily accessible death machines are available to anyone that suddenly snaps and decides to take some lives makes me think we need to ban handguns.



I keep hearing "then only criminals will have guns!", but the people doing these mass shootings are usually not criminals---they're nuts! One week they're perfectly sane, the next they get a F on a test or their girlfriend breaks up with them, and the next thing you know a room full of people are laying dead after 5 seconds of pressing a trigger.



I don't know...the cat might have already be let out of the bag, but I just do not see the need for citizens to have access to handguns. There are 32 handgun homicides for every legitimate shooting, so they're obviously not being used for protection.

I haven't read anything about this but what you quoted and, so far, it doesn't sound like a "mass shooting" and even sounds like it might have been self defense after the others "got physical." IOW, it might not have been a "crazy" going for his "death machine."

I'm sure there are other details now that may make my initial observation ludicrous in retrospect, but it's odd that you and I read the same thing so differently.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That happens a lot more frequently than the classic school shooting. Probably a drug deal gone bad. Hell, that kind of stuff happens every so often here in Canada and we have very strict gun laws. If someone wants to hurt someone that badly, they find a way.

As an outsider, I've long found the whole gun debate in the States to be a smokescreen for larger issues. Neither side wants to confront the single biggest question: what makes people resort to violence in the first place.

Countries like Switzerland have lax gun laws but relatively low violent crime. Where as places like Chicago with strict gun laws have high rates of violent crime. Logically, the problem in the US must be cultural and/or social. Money would be far better spent on urban renewal, education, and encouraging economic development. Good, stable jobs that pay a living wage.

As for the crazies, that's a different situation. Most recent shootings involved individuals that showed no outward proclivity towards violence. They just snapped one day. The scary thing is those individuals would qualify for a gun license even in strict jurisdictions. You could do mandatory psyche tests, but then you'd run the risk of civil rights challenges. Part of the problem is a lack mental health awareness, and a lack of funding for mental health care. People don't seek help, help may not be available or affordable, or those around them pass off warning signs as eccentricities.

Totally untrue. Switzerland does not have lax gun laws.

In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 8 WG). Swiss citizens over the age of 18 who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and who have a clean criminal record can request such a permit. Foreigners with the following citizenship are explicitly excluded from the right to possess weapons: Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania (Art. 12, WV). The following information must be provided to the cantonal weapon bureau together with the weapon application form:

• valid official identification or passport copy
• residence address
• criminal record copy not older than 3 months

For each transfer of a weapon or an essential weapon component without weapons acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG), a written contract must be concluded. Each Party shall keep them at least ten years. The contract must include the following information (Art. 11 WG):

• Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who sells the weapon or essential weapon component
• Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who purchases the weapon or an essential weapon component
• Kind of weapon, manufacturer or producer, label, caliber, weapon number, and date and place of transfer;
• Type and number of official identification of the person who acquires the weapon or the essential weapon component
• and an indication of the processing of personal data in connection with the contract in accordance with the privacy policy of the Federation or the cantons, if firearms are transmitted.

This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holders are registered (Art. 9 WG).
Some weapons do not need a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG):

• Single-shot and multi-barreled hunting rifles and replicas of single-shot muzzle
• By the Federal Council designated hand bolt-action rifles, which are commonly used in off-duty and sporting gunnery recognized by the military law of 3 February 1952 and shooting clubs for hunting purposes in Switzerland
• Single-shot rabbit slayer;
• Compressed air and CO2 weapons that develop a muzzle energy of at least 7.5 joules, or may be confused because of their appearance with real firearms

Buying Ammunition


In order to purchase Ammunition the buyer must follows the same legal rules like for buying guns. The buyer can only buy munition for guns he/she is legally owning and must provide the following information to the seller (Art. 15, 16 WG; Art 24 WV):[7][8]

• valid official identification or passport (and must be older than 18 who are not psychiatric-ally disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and must not be a citizen of the following countries (Art. 12 WV): Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania)
• residence address
• criminal record copy not older than 3 months
• weapon acquisition permit not older than 2 years, or a weapon carrying permit not older than 5 years

This also applies for weapons which do not require a weapon acquisition permit (see above, excluding the weapon acquisition permit, of course).
This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holder is registered.
The same applies to black powder and modern black powder substitutes for use in firing historical rifles.


The possession of the following munition is generally prohibited:

• Ammunition with armor piercing bullets
• Ammunition with projectiles containing an explosive or incendiary device
• Ammunition with one or more floors to the release of substances which damage the health of people in the long run
• Ammunition, missiles and missile launchers for military explosive
• Ammunition with projectiles for transmitting electric shocks
• Ammunition for handguns with deformation effect

Honestly, they have more restrictive gun laws than most U.S. states do, including California.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Until recently, Swiss citizens had both ammo and rifle kept at their homes. The Czech Republic still has gun laws roughly on par with the more strict states, and no states currently have laws sufficient to prevent spree killings.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Until recently, Swiss citizens had both ammo and rifle kept at their homes. The Czech Republic still has gun laws roughly on par with the more strict states, and no states currently have laws sufficient to prevent spree killings.

and no state ever will. i'm not saying we should accept the current status quo, but it is literally impossible to prevent these events from happening.

what you're actually relying on is the fact that people are for the most part rational and prefer self preservation.