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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

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Perknose said:
Nobody I've ever known professed hate for Jesus, but plenty of us are fed up with all the self-professed American "Fox News" Christians who fear and detest Arabs, Jews, Iranians, Mexicans, blacks, liberals, atheists, agnostics, Democrats, gays, pro-choice women, environmentalists, Puerto Ricans, and, of course, the poor.

Mahatma Gandhi put it best, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." They hated him, too.
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QFT
 
so why Jesus? why not Muhammad? i dare him to put put a book saying Muhammad was made up.

either it would be too easy of a task or he knows he would having lunatic Muslims hunting him down for the rest of his life.
 
Perknose said:
Nobody I've ever known professed hate for Jesus, but plenty of us are fed up with all the self-professed American "Fox News" Christians who fear and detest Arabs, Jews, Iranians, Mexicans, blacks, liberals, atheists, agnostics, Democrats, gays, pro-choice women, environmentalists, Puerto Ricans, and, of course, the poor.
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Those "Christians" you describe are often nominal. Saying you are fed up with those people is like lashing out at pancakes because those people say they love pancakes, too, or refusing to drive cars because they drive cars as well.

The only reason "American 'Fox News' Christians" are any significant number of the population is because Christianity as a whole (and unfortunately there are a lot of denominations who don't profess Jesus as God which are lumped into Christianity, but I digress) is a major religion, and historically the major religion in the United States, where religious freedom has made it easy to be (or, rather, claim to be) a Christian. It's a result of Western civilization being a major power and bringing Christianity and the culture of it along with it.

If you had met any of the Christians from countries where persecution is a reality, like in India or Pakistan, or in many Middle Eastern nations, you would get a real and better understanding of who Christians are. It was very hard for a long time in the communist countries like Russia and China for many decades as well, and it's still very dangerous in North Korea to be a Christian. Visit Voice of the Martyrs website if you want real examples.

Not to say there aren't any real Christians in the United States, but its persecution that separates the wheat from the chaff. Not that hard times are a very desirable thing, but its hard to embrace truth when materialism forces it out of the way.

I'm a Christian, and while you might disagree with a lot of what I believe or even think my beliefs ridiculous, you would have a hard time pigeonholing me with your description, and in fact many of my friends and fellow Christians don't fit your view. I hate Fox News (and CNN) and mainly watch Al Jazeera and Euro News, and mostly just read Reuters and other sources online. I don't fear or detest people of other religions or races, and in fact I have and have had friends from just about every ethnicity and religion you can name, as well as atheist and agnostic friends.

As for the topic of this thread, it's just another guy looking for attention in order to sell books. There's a reason he's building up attention and interest beforehand and pointing to his website and book, and I doubt it's purely just academic. Regardless, even if he has some genuine source, just because a document is old or dates back to that early church period doesn't mean it wasn't a fabrication of the time. Plenty of the gnostic "sources" were later disprove as just attacks on Christianity. The same kinds of material can be found today, and since Christianity has been around for nearly 2,000 years, of course you'll find many centuries of people writing diatribes and false claims about the Bible. If someone quoted an AnandTech conspiracy thread somehow still in existence 2,000 years from now, those future people shouldn't be quick to believe the OP of it.
 
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It would not matter a bit. We know exactly where Scientology came from, the circumstances, the dates, and have quotes from the creator of the religion stating that he created it as a joke/experiment. Yet the religion persists.
 
Rob M. said:
Don't forget the death toll of WWI and WW2, which were not religious wars, but killed well over 100 million.
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Almost all wars are land grabs or reactions to a shift or perceived shift in the balance of power, even if someone is clever enough to throw in a religious reason to satisfy some in the populace who are willfully ignorant.

Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot and/or not a student of history.
 
Lets question all these guys....

superbestfriends.gif
 
Texashiker said:
So you discredit something you can not explain?

Much like people said we would never fly, or walk on the moon or talk to someone thousands of miles away.

I bet george washington would have loved to have a cell phone, or even a few hundred M4 carbines.

Just because you can not explain, or understand, does not mean you get to discredit it.


I believe one day we will have colonies on mars. That is if we do not blow ourselves up first.

I can not see the colony, nor can I touch the colony, but I believe in it. I have faith in humanity.

How is this faith in a mars colony any different then faith in Jesus and a GOD? Its no different. Just one is easy for you to understand and the other is not easy.
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by that same logic, we know that what is actually science used to be called magic back in the day. people believed that certain things happened due to gods or magic, and it's not.

just because you can't explain it doesn't mean it's magic and you have to believe in it.

wow, talk about apples and oranges...a colony on mars is scientifically possible. a magic man in the sky creating everything is not scientifically possible.
 
alkemyst said:
Translations bro.
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There are a number of places where they apply passages from the Hebrew Bible that contain the divine name YHWH to Jesus. Some are confessional texts (Romans 10:9-13; note the parallel use the Joel 2:32 texts in Acts 2 and 4), some are early hymns (Philippians 2:5-11) and others are allusions (1Co 8:5-6 uses all the words of the Shema from the Lxx). And then there are the host of examples of passages about YHWH applied to Jesus, common YHWH phrases (e.g. Day of YHWH) applied as Day of the Lord, and attributes. David Capes has a book based on his dissertation entitled, "Old Testament Yahweh texts in Paul's Christology" that does a thorough investigation of how texts from the Hebrew Bible, which contain YHWH, are frequently an unapologetically applied to Jesus.

As for what Jesus thought of himself is, if the trial is to be taken seriously, is he viewed himself as the Son of Man. Which to him is the one like the Son of Man on the cloud in Daniel. The so called "Cloud Rider" of the Hebrew Bible, the warrior depicted as a man of war, is YHWH. Obviously that is only passage and Jesus referred to himself in the Gospels in many ways. Whatever the authors of the Gospels intended it is pretty clear early in Christian thought Jesus was unabashedly connected with the Lord.
 
This is an argument that can never be won by either side...yet people continue to have it regardless?

The only conclusion that can be drawn from that is that some people just like to argue.
 
Yet another thread where Texashiker thoroughly proves how much of an dumb stupid dumb ignorant dumb idiot he is.




Please leave the personal attacks out of you posts.

If you have nothing to say about the topic except to attack the OP, I suggest you stay out of the thread.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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Crono said:
Those "Christians" you describe are often nominal. Saying you are fed up with those people is like lashing out at pancakes because those people say they love pancakes, too, or refusing to drive cars because they drive cars as well.

The only reason "American 'Fox News' Christians" are any significant number of the population is because Christianity as a whole (and unfortunately there are a lot of denominations who don't profess Jesus as God which are lumped into Christianity, but I digress) is a major religion, and historically the major religion in the United States, where religious freedom has made it easy to be (or, rather, claim to be) a Christian. It's a result of Western civilization being a major power and bringing Christianity and the culture of it along with it.

If you had met any of the Christians from countries where persecution is a reality, like in India or Pakistan, or in many Middle Eastern nations, you would get a real and better understanding of who Christians are. It was very hard for a long time in the communist countries like Russia and China for many decades as well, and it's still very dangerous in North Korea to be a Christian. Visit Voice of the Martyrs website if you want real examples.

Not to say there aren't any real Christians in the United States, but its persecution that separates the wheat from the chaff. Not that hard times are a very desirable thing, but its hard to embrace truth when materialism forces it out of the way.

I'm a Christian, and while you might disagree with a lot of what I believe or even think my beliefs ridiculous, you would have a hard time pigeonholing me with your description, and in fact many of my friends and fellow Christians don't fit your view. I hate Fox News (and CNN) and mainly watch Al Jazeera and Euro News, and mostly just read Reuters and other sources online. I don't fear or detest people of other religions or races, and in fact I have and have had friends from just about every ethnicity and religion you can name, as well as atheist and agnostic friends.

As for the topic of this thread, it's just another guy looking for attention in order to sell books. There's a reason he's building up attention and interest beforehand and pointing to his website and book, and I doubt it's purely just academic. Regardless, even if he has some genuine source, just because a document is old or dates back to that early church period doesn't mean it wasn't a fabrication of the time. Plenty of the gnostic "sources" were later disprove as just attacks on Christianity. The same kinds of material can be found today, and since Christianity has been around for nearly 2,000 years, of course you'll find many centuries of people writing diatribes and false claims about the Bible. If someone quoted an AnandTech conspiracy thread somehow still in existence 2,000 years from now, those future people shouldn't be quick to believe the OP of it.
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So who are the true Christians? Who is the true Christ? You're just claiming to be Christian, just like all the others. Hell you yourself even say it and point out the sheer idiocy involved. By your standard, someone that follows the teachings of the real person Jesus, but doesn't believe he was god or any of the other stuff, is not a Christian? He could be the most "true to Jesus" person but he can't be a Christian if he doesn't bow down and claim Jesus is God?

Ah, the good old "persecution" angle. So by that logic, the Jews must be some of the most Christian motherfuckers around? What does that make the boys molested? Are they super Christians due to their belief in Christ and persecution that was caused do to their said belief? Jesus, do you even listen to yourself?
 
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