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Anandtech's 2008 Presidential Debate.

dyn2nvu

Senior member
Before we start the debate, let me say little about where I?m coming from. I never thought about politics much until I was 18-19. I thought government was good, then somehow I found the word libertarian and got interested in what that was about. Joined the lp party, I?m not sure if I ever donated to the lp party, but they kept asking for them. For their efforts, it never yielded great success. Then I somehow stumbled to Mises and Lew. So over the years, I?ve become an anti-state, an anarchist if you well. So I have no left-wing or right-wing bs. I?d rather have no government, or opt-out. But if we must have it, government should small in its size and scope.

I remember a statement made by a philosophy professor when he was lecturing, I thought it was cool. It goes something like, with no government interference in the free-market, bad businesses get weeded out by the hands of god and keep the good.

Now that we have the internet, plus the news media which helps bring more attention to bad businesses. For example, Chris Hanson?s show actually did a better job at investigating those internet email scams. The only problem was that he couldn?t arrest them, although they were on US soil. Why can?t the cops do the same? They do it with undercover stings on offshore tax shelters where they bring the person on US soil and arrest them. In fact, we have our own little free-market here at fs/ft.

Kay now we can have our own presidential debate here on AT.

Try to keep to the facts, don?t pull a Rudy, and don?t argue on emotions.
Attack the facts and words of the politicians, not each other.
Name calling doesn?t go anywhere quickly. Some people may be sensitive.
Calling the republocrats a name, go ahead they?re fair game.
Back up your claims, right or wrong, with facts.

I used http://www.gunowners.org's pro-gun rating system because they have not caved in to special interest. Like Arnold (damn Arnold, what happened to those girly men?) and the NRA.

A+ Pro-Gun Leader: introduces pro-gun legislation. (Ron Paul is one of four politicians and the only candidate to get this rating)
A & A- Pro-Gun Voter: philosophically sound.
B & B- Pro-Gun Compromiser: generally leans our way.
C & C- Leans Our Way: occasionally.
D & D- Leans Anti-Gun: usually against us.
F Anti-Gun Voter: a philosophically committed anti-gunner.
F- Anti-Gun Leader: outspoken anti-gun advocate who carries anti-gun legislation.
NR Not rated: Refused to answer his or her questionnaire; no track record.


Don't let emotions, rhetoric, propaganda, or fear get to you. As Penn says, "no end justifies the means of lying."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw (damn that evil water)

I notice some people didn?t really know where their own candidate really stood on the issues, or what they actually did, despite the politician's words.

So, I did a little research on a few issues from each candidate. I tried to get pass all their rhetoric, political speak and all that bs.

Like say you ask a politician what?s 2 plus 2? They?ll give you a 100 word answer, yet didn?t answer the damn question yet. You?re asking yourself, what the hell did he just say?....

I hope it?s pretty accurate, if not let me know and I?ll correct it. I tried to make it a quick and easy read. I paraphrased, copied their words or copied it completely. I would have done more, but it?s time consuming, had to cut the issues down. I will add more issues once their stances on the issue are stable in your guys (and gals) eyes.

I implore you to seek the facts. Don?t just follow blindly at what these bureaucrats say.

Oh I?m not sure if the politicians speak of themselves in the third-person, but funny to see.

Words that politicians use: (correct me if I?m wrong)

Temporary = usually mean permanent

Aid, subsidy, subsidized, voucher, (state, government) scholarships = welfare.

Know of any others?

Let?s do it then?:beer:

Please don't be afraid to participate.
 
* The politician says one thing, but does the opposite, or clarifying.


Mayor Mike Bloomberg ? Independent? (only have him since there?s some interest, need more info on him)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Not a local issue he says.

* Need more info.

Abortion:
Staunch supporter of abortion.

*

Gay Marriage:
Said gay marriage should be legal, but said his words are irreverent.

*

Gun Control:
Strong Gun Control supporter.

*

Taxes/Spending: Unknown stance.
* Raised property taxes by 18%. Introduced $3 billion dollar tax increase. Critics say he should have reduced spending, not raise taxes.

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Seems like he hates corporate interests.

*

Government welfare:
Unknown stance.

*



Senator Joe Biden - Democrat


Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Voted for Iraq war, but now regrets it. 5 point plan for leaving Iraq.

*
Note: I do like his plan about leaving Iraq, except for keeping small forces in the Middle East.

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Pro-Choice

*
Note: Backs the Roe Vs. Wade.

Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Pro-Gay, yes to civil unions. Says it?s bound to happen.

*

Gun Control: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Pro-gun Control
GOA rating of F.
*

Taxes/Spending: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Vetoed President Bush?s tax cuts. For college tax credits.

* Rated as Big Spender by the NTU. No on repealing the death tax, no on tax cuts, no on requiring super-majority for raising taxes.

Patriot Act: Voted yes on reauthorization.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Says he wants to end special interest. Against corporate welfare.

* Gives into special/corporate interest. He?s against some corporate welfare, not all. $65k in contributions from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
Hard to see, but is for more government welfare.

*
Note: Fact, less taxes and less government spending help the poor.


Senator Hilary Clinton ? Democrat (If you?re a guy, DO NOT VOTE FOR HER. If you know who Tom Leykis is, you?ll know where I?m coming from. Guys trusts me, Hillary will screws guys over for women's rights.)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Voted for Iraq war and doesn?t regret it. Eventually bring troops home, would like to maintain counter terrorism forces, not permanent, but temporary. Hillary opposes permanent bases in Iraq.

*
Note: When a politician says they want something temporary, it?s usually permanent.

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Respect Roe v. Wade, but make adoptions easier too. Keep abortions legal.

Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Gays deserve benefits, but no mention of marriage.

Gun Control: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Pro-Gun Control. GOA rating of F-.

Taxes/Spending: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* For raising minimum wage. No on repealing the death tax. Big spender by the NTU. She hates tax cuts.

Note: Fact, minimum wages actually reduces the number of jobs, doesn?t raise the number of jobs.

Patriot Act:
Voted yes on reauthorizing the act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
She says she?s against corporate welfare.

* She?s being backed by corporations. Highest contributions from lobbyists so far with $234k.

Government welfare:

* Yes, more welfare.


Senator Chris Dodd - Democrat

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Wants troops redeployed out of Iraq. Wants more diplomacy and fewer troops. Help Iraqi government, but exit Iraq by April 1 2008

*

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Voted no on banning partial birth abortion. Pro-choice all the way. Government funding of reducing teen pregnancy and teen sex education.


Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Opposes gay marriage, but supports civil unions.

Gun Control: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Pro-Gun Control GOA rating of F

Taxes/Spending: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Not for most tax/spending cuts. Doesn?t want to end the death tax. Repeal capital gains taxes. Rated as a big spender by NTU.

Note: Bill Gates? dad doesn?t want to end the death tax because he doesn?t want other people to keep their money. He said that if he had time he would found and run an organization called Millionaires for the Estate Tax. His reasoning? An estate tax repeal will decrease charitable giving.

Patriot Act:
Voted yes on reauthorizing the act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Issue not found on candidate?s website

* Yes, likes corporate welfare. 3rd highest contributions from lobbyists. $117k

Government welfare:
Extend Medicaid to more people.

*

Senator John Edwards ? Democrat
(The ?I love you? candidate)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Voted for the war, but regrets the vote. Supports ending the war and bring the troops home.

*
Note: I like the song on his website. ??it don?t matter??

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Right to abortion is in the constitutional protected.

* No sir, it is not in the constitution that right is left to the states and individuals.

Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Let states decide. No Gay marriage, but for civil unions.

Gun Control: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Supports 2nd amendment, but with control. No GOA rating.

Taxes/Spending:
Bush's tax policies have increased the share of the tax burden borne by middle-class workers. Our economic policies must reward work, help families save for the future, and fight the rising costs of middle-class life.

* Repeal tax cuts for earners over 200k, revise capital gains taxes, voted no on $350 billion dollar tax breaks. Voted no on ending the estate tax. Rated as big spender by NTU.

Patriot Act:
Is a-ok by Edwards.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Wants to end corporate welfare.

* 10k in contributions from lobbyists.

Government welfare: Wants to end poverty with more welfare.

*
Note: The numbers in poverty seem to be skewed. When government calculates those in poverty, they use an income level to see if people are in poverty. So even if a millionaire earns nothing, that person is in poverty.



Senator Mike Gravel ? Democrat
(limited information/history on Mike. Mike is in debt with his campaign 80k in debt. No wonder he?s asking for 70k in donations on the month of May 2007. Gravel believes that global climate change is a matter of national security)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Supports ending the war and bringing the troops home. Iraq war was a mistake, no threat to the US.

*

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
There is no room for interference from politicians and judges.

*

Gay Marriage:
Supports same-sex marriage.

*

Gun Control:
Supports 2nd amendment, but with licensing control.

* In other words, for gun control.
Note: Criminals can care less about licenses or gun control laws.

Taxes/Spending:
Supports the repeal of the current income tax and replace it with a fair-tax.
Spending, need more info. Supports National sales tax.

*
Note: Even if you replace the income tax with a fair tax, there will still be huge spending by the government. Just dump the income tax and replace it with nothing. It?s proven that if the government cuts back some, the income tax can be easily and effortlessly axed while the government spending keeps a trillion dollars/year to spend.

Patriot Act:
Voted against the Patriot Act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Unclear.

* Universal health care does add up to corporate welfare. Zero dollars from lobbyists.

Government welfare: universal health care

* Limited info, other than universal health care.

Note: Numerous cases where, Medicare, Medicaid don?t pay the hospitals their full costs of the care provided.


Congressman Dennis Kucinich ? Democrat (more socialistic than I thought. He looks like an elf?doesn?t he? Was he in Santa Clause 2?)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Iraq War was not a defensive position. Cost each taxpayer $5,000/year. Cut the bloat.

*

Abortion:
Upholds the Roe Vs. Wade decision. Very pro-choice. Should be state?s right.

*

Gay Marriage:
Supports same-sex marriage.

*
Note: Man this guy wrote an essay on the issue and I?m still confused on where he stands. I?m guessing he?s for it.

Gun Control:
For gun control.

* Rated an F- by GOA.

Taxes/Spending:
Supports some tax cuts, says no to most tax cuts. Loves to spend tax money. Wants to give everyone $300 dollars (tax credit) by taxing more from the Rich.

* Rated big spender by NTU.

Patriot Act:
Voted against the Patriot Act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Ah, farm subsidies for corporations. (ConAgra?)

*

Government welfare:
Wants universal health care. Joblessness is a weapon of mass destruction. Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction. Free education for all. Foreign aid to Africa.

*

Note: Yay! Free everything. It?s so easy to spend money (tax money) that isn?t yours. What?s up with the democrats and universal health care? Government?s been hurting health care, and we need more government?



Senator Barack Obama ? Democrat


Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Obama on Iraq: ??What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war."

*

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website

* Upholds the Roe Vs. Wade decision. Voted yes on $100M dollar education for teen sex and pregnancy prevention.

Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Opposes gay marriage, but supports civil unions.

Gun Control: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* For gun control. GOA rating of F.

Taxes/Spending:
Votes no on tax cuts. Voted no on ending the death tax.

*

Patriot Act:
Voted yes on reauthorizing the Patriot Act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Subsidies for auto-makers. They need to compete with imports. Make cleaner cars.

* 34k in contributions from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
Yes, subsidized wage-paying jobs for low earners. He?s a welfare kind-of-guy.

*

Governor Bill Richardson ? Democrat

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Stop the Iraq war. Leave Iraq with no residue force.

*

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Defends the woman?s right to choose. In other words, Pro-choice

Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Opposes gay marriage?

Note: Need more information.

Gun Control:
Pro Second Amendment.

* Leaning towards gun-control, party over principle.

Taxes/Spending:
Votes to cut taxes, reduce the income tax. For minimum wage raises.

*
Note: limited info.

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*
Note: I need more info.

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
For the Free-market? Eliminate corporate welfare.

* Welfare to special interest groups like American Bar Assoc.
Note: Need more info.

Government welfare:
More national health care. Expand Medicaid.

*
Note: need more info.
 
* The politician says one thing, but does the opposite, or clarifying.


Senator Sam Brownback - Republican
Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
After his trip to Iraq, believes in and sees hope, a new Iraqi nation.

*
Note: I wonder if he saw the video of the girl being killed by stones. Says he values human life. But, he doesn?t want to end the war?
Quick note on immigration, says he?s for border security, yet he?s on the open borders lobby.

Abortion:
Very pro-life.

*

Gay Marriage:
Favors a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

*
Note: Need more information.

Gun Control:
For guns. Pro-gun.

* GOA rating of B.

Taxes/Spending:
Supports tax cuts. For the flat-tax.

*

Patriot Act:
Voted yes on reauthorizing the act.

* Satisfactory on tax cuts by NTU.

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Wants to eliminate corporate welfare?

* He gave away corporate farm subsides. $4k from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
For government scholarships for students.

*

Note: Scholarship (government), just like the vouchers, our tax money subsidizing education.


John Cox ? Republican
(no political record)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
We must win the war, so the terrorist are over there, not over here. Prosperous people do not turn to terrorism.

*
Note: President Bush is prosperous. He?s terrorizing, I mean helping the people of Iraq. Sorry, didn?t mean to be thinking.

Abortion:
Very pro-life.

*

Gay Marriage:
No to gay marriage. Ban it.

*

Gun Control:
For guns. Pro-gun. Concealed guns help keep us safer. Gun control doesn?t work.

*

Taxes/Spending:
For the flat-tax. End the death tax.

*

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Uknown

* $0 from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
Hard to say. He says though, he wants to end the Federal education system, or part of it.

*

Governor Jim Gilmore ? Republican

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Defeat the terrorists in Iraq, send in more troops. Reject those who oppose.

*

Abortion:
Very pro-life.

* In the debates, he says he?s for abortion.

Gay Marriage:
A big NO to gay marriage.

*

Gun Control:
For guns. Pro-gun. Concealed guns help keep us safer. Gun control doesn?t work.

*

Taxes/Spending:
Said he cut taxes as governor.

*Although he did cut taxes, he must have kept spending. Left his state in financial trouble.

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Unknown

* $250 from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
Uknown

* He is for abused and low-income energy assistance (welfare).


Mayor Rudy Giuliani ? Republican
(oh boy, the terrorist playboy. He seems so leftwing is he on the right party? I don?t understand why republicans like him.)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
Prays for the safety of the troops, but don?t bring them home. We will never stop fighting terrorism, always on the search for monsters to slay. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

*

Abortion:
Mixed on abortion.

* Flip-flop legal beagle.

Gay Marriage:
A big NO to gay marriage.

*

Gun Control:
Strong supporter of 2nd amendment, but strong on gun control too.

* Gun Control freak. Giuliani escorted President Clinton to Minnesota to speak in favor of the semi-auto ban. When the Republicans controlled Congress tried to repeal the gun ban (semi-auto ban), Giuliani made the trip to Washington to testify against the repeal effort.

Taxes/Spending:
Said he cut taxes as mayor.

*He increased spending, opposes eliminating other taxes.
Note: Rudy says lowering sales taxes creates more jobs. Um, lowering income taxes and ending minimum wage creates more jobs.

Patriot Act:
Fervently supported reauthorization of the Patriot Act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Looks like he can conform to special interests for the right price.

* Giuliani?s corporate client, News Corp. (company that owns foxnews) backs him up.

Government welfare:
He said, not to redistribute income, run a welfare state, or perform social engineering.

*

Governor Mike Huckabee ? Republican
(the only candidate with a exploratory site, no campaign site)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
The surge is a military means to achieve the political end of sectarian reconciliation among the Iraqis. Iraq is a battle in our generational, ideological war on terror. Democrats delusional. 300,000 more troops needed.

* I think he?s saying, in the first sentence, is that he wants to bring Iraqis in together through military force.

Abortion:
Passed many pro-life laws.

*

Gay Marriage:
No to gay adoptions, no gay civil unions. While Massachusetts was allowing homosexuals to marry, I got a constitutional amendment passed in Arkansas in 2002 defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

*

Gun Control:
The Founding Fathers wanted us to be able to defend ourselves from our own government, if need be, and from all threats to our lives and property.

*
Note: Amazing, the guy gets it right about founding fathers on guns, but not the founding father?s small government, peace, and non-interventions.

Taxes/Spending:
For fair tax. Abolish the IRS. As Governor of Arkansas, I cut taxes and fees almost 100 times, saving the taxpayers almost $380 million. I left a surplus of nearly $850 million, which I urged should go back to the people.

* Records show the opposite. He hiked the sales tax, opposed the repeal of sales tax on groceries and medicine. Signed bills raising taxes on cigarettes, gasoline, and $5.25 bed-tax on private nursing home patients. Opposed a ban on internet taxes, and made a 17% sales tax increase law. Spending went up 67% under his watch.

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Unknown

* $500 dollars from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
Unknown

* He is for welfare for the abused and low-income energy assistance (welfare).


Congressman Duncan Hunter ? Republican (has an online election seal, whatever that is)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
The greatest protection of human rights in this decade has been the overthrow of the Taliban in Afghanistan and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
I also strongly support U.S. efforts to establish free societies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

*
Note: He called for Harry Reid?s resignation because Harry said the war was lost.

Abortion:
Wants to pass a constitutional law banning abortions.

*

Gay Marriage: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

Gun Control:
You know as well as I do that there is one thing criminals prefer over any other: unarmed victims. Pro-Gun.

* GOA rating of A.

Taxes/Spending:
Wants to make a number of changes to the tax code. Otherwise, just leave the income tax.

* Rating of satisfactory by NTU. Record shows him as a major contributor to big government spending.

Patriot Act:
Voted yes on making the act permanent.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Unknown

* 14k in contributions from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
An over-taxing government is the biggest contributor to creating poverty.

* Big government spender.


Senator John McCain ? Republican (man, he was kinda hot in his younger days, that sounds kinda gay, think boobies?John loves to talk in the third-person a lot, Bob Dole said, Bob Dole.)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
More troops need in Iraq. To halt sectarian violence in Baghdad and disarm Sunni and Shia militias. Build an Iraq army. John McCain believes that only by controlling the violence in Iraq can we pave the way for a political settlement. John McCain believes Syria and Iran have aided and abetted the violence in Iraq for too long. All war, all the time.

*
Note: Voted NO on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Abortion:
Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

*
Note: Although he is pro-life, he has the issue correct. The rights should be given back to the individuals and states. Federal government needs to butt out.

Gay Marriage:
Prohibit same-sex marriage.

*
Note: He says he would be ?comfortable? with a gay president.

Gun Control:
John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.
John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans.

* Holy crap, he has the right points. But he?s been so anti-gun (McCain-Lieberman bill) in the past. Hold on, voted consistently on opposing ?assault rifles? bans? 1999, he wanted to ban some assault rifles. Breaker, breaker, we got another flip-flopper.
GOA rating of F-.

Taxes/Spending:
Higher taxes and greater spending discourage entrepreneurship, foster wasteful tax-planning and slow long-term growth. Intelligently-formulated tax cuts and sensible tax reform will deliver much higher growth when they are accompanied by lower spending.
John McCain will work to ensure that money spent by Congress, is used wisely and prudently on legitimate national priorities, not squandered on wasteful pet projects and special interest earmarks.

* Likes to cut some taxes, but not all. Even voted against his buddy, President Bush?s tax cuts. John McCain's overall record on taxes, however, is profoundly disturbing and anti-growth. Uncharacteristic vote for No Child Left Behind which oversaw a massive increase in government spending. Used to get high ratings, but satisfactory rated for the past few years by the NTU. Looks like he?s getting drunk with power.

Patriot Act:
Voted yes reauthorizing the act and it?s wiretapping.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Candidates website gives no info, looks like he?s for ending corporate welfare.

* Has the 2nd highest contributions ($166k) from lobbyists, just behind H. Clinton.

Government welfare:
Candidate?s website gives no info.

*


Congressman Ron Paul ? Republican (He looks like Gandalf.)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. Voted against the Iraq war.

*

Abortion: Issue not found on candidate?s website.
Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states.

*
Note: Although he is pro-life, he has the issue correct. The rights should be given back to the individuals and states. Federal government needs to butt out.

Gay Marriage:
NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage

*
Note: He says marriage is a religious and individual issue and not government. Government needs to butt out of private lives.

Gun Control:
Very pro-gun.

* GOA rating of A+. Only candidate to have an A+ rating.

Taxes/Spending:
Abolish the IRS. Replace the income tax with nothing. Reduce spending; get rid of federal government departments and programs.

* NTU rating of 89% ?taxpayer?s best friend?
?If every member of Congress voted like Representative Paul, Americans could enjoy much lower taxes and less waste in government,? stated NTU President John Berthoud. ?Overburdened taxpayers in Texas and across the nation owe Mr. Paul a debt of gratitude for his hard work on their behalf.?

Note: He?s been consistent and constitutional in reducing taxes and spending.

Patriot Act:
Voted against the Act.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Does not give into special interest, known as Dr. No for saying no to everyone that comes to his door for money.

* $0 from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
Wants to end government welfare. Charities and individuals do a better job.

*


Governor Mitt Romney ? Republican (The flip-flip king. He?ll make the government your way. He?ll make government give you abortion, no, ban abortion, no, pro-choice. Make up your mind Romney. Interesting, he didn?t know he was running for president. Romney has commented that if he had known he was going to seek the presidency, he probably would have chosen to plant his flag not in Massachusetts.)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
The jihadists are waging a global war against the United States and Western governments generally with the ambition of replacing legitimate governments with a caliphate, with a theocracy. The defeat of this radical and violent faction of Islam must be achieved?Double Guantanamo. Don't decide policy by polls; don't leave Iraq precipitously.

*

Abortion:
I am pro-life, states, through the democratic process, should determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate. Hates the polls, except when it?s in his favor.

*
Note: Although he is pro-life, he has the issue correct. The rights should be given back to the individuals and states. Federal government needs to butt out.

Gay Marriage:
Marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman. Opposed gay marriage but played fair and upheld law. Put gay marriage ban into GOP party platform.

*

Gun Control: Issue not found on candidate?s website.

* Supports some gun control laws and not others.

Taxes/Spending:
Keeping taxes low and simplifying the code will grow the economy and enhance our competitiveness. I said no to a tax hike; raising taxes hurts working people and scares away jobs. I also said no to more borrowing; borrowing just shifts our problems to the backs of our kids . . . Instead, I went after waste, inefficiency, duplication, and patronage. The Federal government must stop its borrowing and spending binge. The debt is a burden on our economy, our currency, our foreign policy, and our future. This is beyond pork barrel spending. We must address entitlement programs - not just to save money - but to give Americans confidence in their future. I don't want to add entitlements. I want to find ways to reform our entitlement programs.

*
Note: I like his rhetoric. Notice how Romney never uses the word cut, but to reform. Reform everything, don?t cut the programs. He promised to not raise taxes, but raised taxes anyways. Closing loopholes in the corporate tax code and raising property taxes. Lied about his tax cuts.

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*He did suggest that the FBI should spy Mosques, and new Muslims.

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Issue not found on on his website.

* $109k in contributions from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
This is beyond pork barrel spending. We must address entitlement programs - not just to save money - but to give Americans confidence in their future. I don't want to add entitlements. I want to find ways to reform our entitlement programs.

* Again, never uses the word cut, but to reform.


Congressman Tom Tancredo ? Republican
Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
America?s noble sacrifice has purchased Iraqis a precious opportunity for democratic change; it is now up to them to ensure success.

* Yes sir, the noble bombs of the US government has freed the Iraqi people giving them opportunity to change. But wait, they don?t want to change.

Abortion:
Roe v. Wade is wrongly decided on intellectual as well as moral grounds. But contrary to popular belief, overturning it would merely permit states to prohibit abortion; it would not require it. To protect the unborn, we also need to educate the public about the potential life-long medical problems and emotional scarring associated with abortions.

*

Gay Marriage: (Sorry this will be a long point being made, check out his words)
Federalism concerns make a constitutional amendment protecting traditional marriage an avenue of last resort, Unfortunately, intellectually dishonest activist judges have left us no choice.

Activist courts have ignored the principal legal argument that the state's interest in marriage is procreation. Population is power. Society needs a young generation to defend the country in battle, to support its programs with taxes and to carry on its culture and traditions. The mere fact that two people are in a loving relationship does not matter to the state. Society supports traditional marriage because it is the only union which, in the ordinary course, leads to children, without the intervention of a third party.

* Voted YES on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

Gun Control:
Fully and completely supports gun rights.

* GOA rating of A.

Taxes/Spending:
For replacing the income tax with a flat-tax or national sales tax. Reform entitlement programs. Abolish the IRS.

*
Note: Taxpayers? friend, NTU rating of 84%

Patriot Act:
Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent.

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Issue not found on on his website.

* Zero contributions from lobbyists.

Government welfare:
The only way to control the budget is to reform the entitlement programs that mandatory spending funds. Those decisions on how to allocate resources are as economically necessary as they are politically and ethically difficult.

* Never uses the word cut, but to reform. Does complain about things like Medicare about being too big.


Tommy Thompson ? Republican (self-proclaimed veto king, vetoed like a whore, more than the democrats and republicans combined. And another guy that likes talking in the third person. Bob Dole, said Bob Dole. Bob Dole!)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East):
New common-sense perspective if we are to achieve stability and bring our troops home sooner than later.What divides the Iraqi people has existed for centuries. It is deeply rooted in their religious beliefs and has bred generations of violence, which continues to be flourish today, undermining any opportunity for a stable Iraq. It is unrealistic for us to believe we?re going to end these divisions and force peace upon people who do not share our goals. Iraq is just one front in the War on Terror, and our enemies will never rest until we win the war.

* With his common sense approach, the war on terror (it?s TERRORISM, not fear), the war will never end.

Abortion:
Pro-life. Number of adoptions went up 22 percent and number of abortions went down 37 percent while governor of Wisconsin.

* He likes adoptions so much that he awards tax money (14.9 millioin) to state-sponsored foster care for increasing adoptions.

Gay Marriage:
Governor Thompson believes marriage is between a man and a woman. He supports states? rights in determining the definition of marriage and believes it should be done legislatively or by referendum.

* Okayed for private business to fire employees for being gay, and then apologizes for it. He was asked during the May 3, 2007 debate, If a private employer finds homosexuality immoral, should he be allowed to fire a gay worker?" His response: "I think that is left up to the individual business. I really sincerely believe that that is an issue that business people have got to make their own determination as to whether or not they should be." Asked if his answer was yes, Thompson said, "Yes." Then he apologized on CNN, saying he misunderstood and didn?t hear the question correctly.

Note: Apparently, the Governor doesn?t understand property rights. You as a property owner or business owner should have the right to allow who you want in your place.

Gun Control:
Governor Thompson is a gun owner who signed legislation that banned Wisconsin communities from passing anti-gun ordinances that are stricter than state law.

*

Taxes/Spending:
Governor Thompson cut taxes by $16.4 billion in Wisconsin and believes President Bush?s tax cuts must be permanent to allow taxpayers to keep more of their hard-earned money and to continue to build the economy. Governor Thompson also vetoed more than 1,900 items in 14 years in office, saving taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. Replace AMT with flat tax. No national sales tax.

* Although he did cut taxes, he spends tax money like a drunken sailor. Most reliable conservative governor, yah right.

He couldn?t name one federal program or dept. to cut during the foxnews May 15, 2007 debate. When asked what he would cut, he said he reduced taxes, reduced spending (lied). Said there are several programs that need to be cut in Washington. Several from his former department. Make every agency come in with a budget at 95% of last years budget (mumbles something about 100%). Use this exercise to reduce budgets all across the line. Many ways to do it, so many programs that need to be reduced and eliminated. Because what happens in Washington Wendal (not sure of the spelling) is that programs get started, and nobody ever supervises those or looks at them and try to find ways to eliminate them. But there are, many departments that could absolutely have programs to be eliminated. Wendel says, Governor, I didn?t ear three programs, can I hear one? (I?ll write in verbatim here, because he seems to get nervous and adds more uhs) Well the first program I will eliminate is the program in the, uh, in the Department of Health and Human Services. In, in the CDC that deals with the, uh, stockpile. The stockpile (I think he?s saying stockpile) does a great job, but there are some inefficiencies there. That we?re able to make some efficiencies, make some uh, changes in them that eliminate that program. (part 3 of the debate on foxnews)

Typical politician speak, says a bunch of words but couldn?t name one damn program. Remember now, this guy was the big cheese at the Department of Health and Human Services. You?d think he?d know one. Basically, after he puts in a hard day?s work of putting some papers in the trash, he jets to the golf course.

Patriot Act:
Unknown

*

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests:
Issue not found on his website.

*

Government welfare:
And we can do this without a government-run health care program that includes the worst aspects of socialized medicine while robbing our great nation of its ingenuity in developing new cures and treatments for deadly illnesses. Strengthening the Medicare and Medicaid programs to ensure the programs are there in the future for the millions of Americans who depend on them.

* In an article, he said though, Overhaul Medicaid, shift it to the federal government.
 
http://query.nictusa.com/pres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008
http://www.progress.org/banneker/cw.html
http://www.albionmonitor.com/9702a/irrigationend.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272672,00.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7102230
http://www.opensecrets.org
http://ontheissues.org
http://porkbusters.org/
http://www.mises.org/story/2552 income taxes can be cut effortlessly and painlessly if the government cuts back on the spending.



Joe Biden

http://www.joebiden.com
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6449
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/41407/

Hillary Clinton

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/
http://www.alternet.org/story/51619/
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader03032007.html

Chis Dodd

http://www.chrisdodd.com
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia28.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0710-01.htm

John Edwards

http://www.johnedwards.com/

Mike Gravel

http://www.gravel2008.us
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007...ates-on-the-abortion-ruling/#more-1557
http://www.antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=10962
http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20070504_maverick_candidate_mike_gravel/

Dennis Kucinich
http://kucinich.us

Barack Obama

http://www.barackobama.com
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/05/obama_wants_to_be_corporate_we.php
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...AID=/20070508/OPINION01/705080314/1008

Bill Richardson

http://www.richardsonforpresident.com
http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/richardson.htm

Sam Brownback

http://www.brownback.com
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/BG1505.cfm

John Cox

http://www.cox2008.com

Jim Gilmore

http://www.gilmoreforpresident.com
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/17231490.htm

Rudy Giuliani

http://www.joinrudy2008.com
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_rudy_giuliani.html
http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/giuliani.htm
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/05/rudy_giulianis_economic_record.php
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/...ani-accepted-250000-bribe-tsk-tsk.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070515/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani_s_business_abridged
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3172931
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic...giulianis_clients_could_pose_conflict/

Mike Huckabee

http://www.explorehuckabee.com
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/01/a_report_on_mike_huckabees_fis.php

Duncan Hunter

http://www.gohunter08.com
http://porkbusters.org/2007/04/duncan_hunter_on_fiscal_conser_1.php
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1831610/posts
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2006/10/duncan_hunters_voting_record.php

John McCain

http://www.johnmccain.com
http://reason.com/news/show/118937.html
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/03/arizona_senator_john_mccains_t.php
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0205.green.html
http://gunowners.org/pres08/mccain.htm

Ron Paul

http://www.ronpaul2008.com
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst030104.htm
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2006/tst101606.htm
http://www.house.gov/paul/press/press2007/pr022107.htm
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr021303b.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8


Willard Mitt Romney

http://www.mittromney.com
http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/romney.htm
http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/02/07/romney-lying-about-his-tax-record/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=afKIgdfHrqhc&refer=us
http://romneyisafraud.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_romneyisafraud_archive.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...rticle/2006/11/25/AR2006112500736.html

Tom Tancredo

http://www.teamtancredo.com

Tommy Thompson

http://www.tommy2008.com
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2003pres/20030912.html
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w070423&s=runner042607
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...rticle/2006/08/02/AR2006080201511.html

Mike Bloomberg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bloomberg
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0542,barrett1,68949,5.html
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/politics/columns/citypolitic/11075/
 
Ron Paul:

He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
 
Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Ron Paul:

He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

At least you know what he stands for, even if you disagree with him. Clarity should be applauded, but...

He believes there's reputable scientists on both sides of the global warming "debate." The head of Exxon Mobile has admitted there's global warming, I think the debate is over. I expect our elected officials to be better informed.
 
David McOwen ? (No Political record)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East): Against false Wars - Supports ending the war and bring the troops home.


Abortion: It is a woman's choice until men can get pregnant


Gay Marriage: Government does not belong behind closed doors of the private lives of individuals that goes for Federal or State


Gun Control: Every citizen capable should be armed


Taxes/Spending: Bush's tax policies have increased the share of the tax burden borne by middle-class workers. Our economic policies must reward work, help families save for the future, and fight the rising costs of middle-class life.

* Repeal tax cuts for earners over 200k, revise capital gains taxes,

Patriot Act: Should be abolished, we already have a Constitution and must secure our borders, illegal means illegal.

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Entire Corporate structure must be revamped especially lobby reform.

Links: ATPN
 
dyn2nvu, I like how you ask for objectivity and to base things on facts not emotions but how about you practice what you preach because your doing exactly what you ask not to do.
 
Originally posted by: Mardeth
dyn2nvu, I like how you ask for objectivity and to base things on facts not emotions but how about you practice what you preach because your doing exactly what you ask not to do.

Thank you. Can you point that out? I'll correct it. It wasn't the gay thing about McCain was it? I can definitely edit that out.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
David McOwen ? (No Political record)

Quick points: Issues

Iraq War (or the Middle East): Against false Wars - Supports ending the war and bring the troops home.


Abortion: It is a woman's choice until men can get pregnant


Gay Marriage: Government does not belong behind closed doors of the private lives of individuals that goes for Federal or State


Gun Control: Every citizen capable should be armed


Taxes/Spending: Bush's tax policies have increased the share of the tax burden borne by middle-class workers. Our economic policies must reward work, help families save for the future, and fight the rising costs of middle-class life.

* Repeal tax cuts for earners over 200k, revise capital gains taxes,

Patriot Act: Should be abolished, we already have a Constitution and must secure our borders, illegal means illegal.

Corporate welfare/Lobbyists/Special Interests: Entire Corporate structure must be revamped especially lobby reform.

Links: ATPN

Who is that? I'm just gonna try to stick to the candidates that have declared to be running for president.

Wait, that's you. :laugh: Cool man cool. 😀
 
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