Anandtech p35 roundup?

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: lopri
I would really love to see 2x2GB and/or 4x1GB memory configuration tests for overclocking/stability. It's about time for AT to listen to enthusiasts' needs instead of marketing-driven DDR3 MHz racing.

We test with 4x1GB standard on the enthusiast level boards under Vista64 now. We will be testing with 4x1GB under Vista32 for the budget level boards starting next week. As far as the 2GB modules, that testing will occur starting with the X38 boards.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: FireTech

Originally posted by: Pharmdeity
I'm sorry to say that Anand and his team have lost their focus. They stated several months ago that they'd be reviewing the P35 chip motherboards but they've published practically nothing.

Try waiting nearly five months for a round-up :laugh:

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Let's cut to the chase before I get the final roundup completed -

We're very much looking forward to seeing this P35 review after the much anticipated µATX MB round-up is posted.

The µATX turned into a monster that has consumed my life for the most part and you will see why this week. As far as the P35 boards, we have provided results for six boards so far, this next series addresses the low to midrange market. Except for the last two boards, all tests are completed, have to write it up here shortly.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Let's cut to the chase before I get the final roundup completed -

The under $150 boards fall into this rating -
1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (our favorite board right now for the money)
2. MSI P35 Neo2-FR (P08 BIOS brought the board alive)
2. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
2.5 ASUS P5K (latest BIOS might get this to a two)
3. abit IP35 (still a couple of bugs left to work out)
4. Foxconn P35A (should be a rebate on it so it will go under $125, at that point, nice choice)

The under $125 boards fall into this rating -
1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
2. abit IP35-E (not a big fan of the PCI GigE, no reason for it)
2.5 Biostar TP35D2-A7 (last BIOS really fixed a lot of issues)
3. ASUS P5K SE
4. Intel DP35DPM (do not plan on real overclocking, great stock board)

Over $150-
Still working on it... We will have an exclusive on the new Foxconn MARS board (it is surprising) and just got started on the water cooling tests on the new ASUS Blitz boards plus DFI is set to deliver their P35 board next week (looks like it will be going for $299....), the surprise in this group is the abit IP35-Pro as abit finally got it right on a new release...

I'm well aware of the IP35-E's LAN issue. However, that should only show up in the theoretical maximum throughput speed test under laboratory condition. You'll never pump more than 50MB/s in the real world.

I gave this board bonus points because of the sophisticated and powerful MOSFET driven fan headers. The CPU and SYSTEM headers will work with 2-pin/3-pin/4-pin fan. Not many motherboards can do that.

I think people place too much emphasis on maximum stable FSB. My sample topped out at 488MHz, but that may be the upper limit of this E6320 CPU. It's counter-productive to try to overclock a 7x multi CPU because you'll need very fast RAM. The optimum balance between speed and performance is around 460MHz FSB.

Never said the PCI LAN on the IP35-E was an issue, just did not care for it as abit could have easily used a PCI-E PHY for a couple of cents more on the board. As far as real world performance, there really is not a difference unless you are using a gigabit switch for transferring files between machines locally.

I think most people put way to much emphasis on maximum FSB rates for boards. The P35 chipset operates best between 430FSB~490FSB with the 1066 strap, anything above that is going the other direction due to the chipset and memory latencies having to be dialed back greatly in order for the board/CPU to clock up. Heck, running the 975X chipset at the 800 strap around 330FSB will provide better results on a clock per clock basis than most boards out there. The 680i has a range from 400~420 on most boards that is the optimum FSB rate, anything higher is a waste to some degree on those boards. I advocate buying CPUs with higher multipliers and running them in the sweet spot on a board to maximize latencies and CPU speed. It also makes like easy on the board not to mention voltage, power supply, cooling, and memory requirements. :beer:

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Let's cut to the chase before I get the final roundup completed -

The under $150 boards fall into this rating -
1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (our favorite board right now for the money)
2. MSI P35 Neo2-FR (P08 BIOS brought the board alive)
2. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
2.5 ASUS P5K (latest BIOS might get this to a two)
3. abit IP35 (still a couple of bugs left to work out)
4. Foxconn P35A (should be a rebate on it so it will go under $125, at that point, nice choice)

The under $125 boards fall into this rating -
1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
2. abit IP35-E (not a big fan of the PCI GigE, no reason for it)
2.5 Biostar TP35D2-A7 (last BIOS really fixed a lot of issues)
3. ASUS P5K SE
4. Intel DP35DPM (do not plan on real overclocking, great stock board)

Over $150-
Still working on it... We will have an exclusive on the new Foxconn MARS board (it is surprising) and just got started on the water cooling tests on the new ASUS Blitz boards plus DFI is set to deliver their P35 board next week (looks like it will be going for $299....), the surprise in this group is the abit IP35-Pro as abit finally got it right on a new release...

I'm well aware of the IP35-E's LAN issue. However, that should only show up in the theoretical maximum throughput speed test under laboratory condition. You'll never pump more than 50MB/s in the real world.

I gave this board bonus points because of the sophisticated and powerful MOSFET driven fan headers. The CPU and SYSTEM headers will work with 2-pin/3-pin/4-pin fan. Not many motherboards can do that.

I think people place too much emphasis on maximum stable FSB. My sample topped out at 488MHz, but that may be the upper limit of this E6320 CPU. It's counter-productive to try to overclock a 7x multi CPU because you'll need very fast RAM. The optimum balance between speed and performance is around 460MHz FSB.

Never said the PCI LAN on the IP35-E was an issue, just did not care for it as abit could have easily used a PCI-E PHY for a couple of cents more on the board. As far as real world performance, there really is not a difference unless you are using a gigabit switch for transferring files between machines locally.

I think most people put way to much emphasis on maximum FSB rates for boards. The P35 chipset operates best between 430FSB~490FSB with the 1066 strap, anything above that is going the other direction due to the chipset and memory latencies having to be dialed back greatly in order for the board/CPU to clock up. Heck, running the 975X chipset at the 800 strap around 330FSB will provide better results on a clock per clock basis than most boards out there. The 680i has a range from 400~420 on most boards that is the optimum FSB rate, anything higher is a waste to some degree on those boards. I advocate buying CPUs with higher multipliers and running them in the sweet spot on a board to maximize latencies and CPU speed. It also makes like easy on the board not to mention voltage, power supply, cooling, and memory requirements. :beer:

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

 

[Gary Key]

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

Who needs support when the board works out of the box though

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

My IP35-E came with 11 (latest BIOS). Ran like a champ with the E4300/E6320 and drivers from the CD.

Please don't get me started with Asus' e-mail support. My major gripe with the IP35-E is that double post problem during cold boot. It's a chipset thing, but still fixable (ref. IP35 Pro's BIOS).

Did you encounter the double post issue with GA-P35-DS3P or GA-P35-DS3L?

I believe support and the "X" factor will continue to deteriorate because of the rapid pace of new technological innovations. The life expectancy of a new chipset may only last a few months instead of quarters, so lesser-financed vendors must devote their limited resources on the next generation board. I'm more concerned about speed, stability, and ease of use with the stuffs that I have on hands RIGHT NOW.

Performance and stability should account for 70% of total score. Add 25% for price and features keeping in mind that some people don't care for un-used bells and whistles. Finally, throw in 5% for good looks and misc accessories.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

Who needs support when the board works out of the box though

If you had a abit AB9-Quad as one example of many this year, it would have been high on your list... LOL.... Our numbers will probably change a little before publication, we are still discussing it, but in the end, if the board does not work and it takes 3 months to get a BIOS, then support is important. As for price, features, and performance, we will probably go a little more heavy on the performance numbers. There are very good arguments to be made for every case which is one reason why a scoring system is so difficult to implement.

 

[jkresh]

Gary, I know I keep asking this and I am appreciative of what you have said so far, but when will the 680i/high end p35 board roundup(s) be out? Also for the blitz, do you happen to know if the heatpipe/wb is aluminum or copper, I have heard that its aluminum and since my whole loop is copper and I plan on keeping it that way if it is alluminum that basically removes it from contention for me. Thanks again.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

Who needs support when the board works out of the box though

If you had a abit AB9-Quad as one example of many this year, it would have been high on your list... LOL.... Our numbers will probably change a little before publication, we are still discussing it, but in the end, if the board does not work and it takes 3 months to get a BIOS, then support is important. As for price, features, and performance, we will probably go a little more heavy on the performance numbers. There are very good arguments to be made for every case which is one reason why a scoring system is so difficult to implement.

But the Abit QuadGT is the fastest P965 board out there now. Even beats the DFI 965-s in some setups.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: jkresh
Gary, I know I keep asking this and I am appreciative of what you have said so far, but when will the 680i/high end p35 board roundup(s) be out? Also for the blitz, do you happen to know if the heatpipe/wb is aluminum or copper, I have heard that its aluminum and since my whole loop is copper and I plan on keeping it that way if it is alluminum that basically removes it from contention for me. Thanks again.

Based on my limited experience with the EVGA 680i, I think you should shoot for P35 if you want to run a single GPU rig.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

Who needs support when the board works out of the box though

If you had a abit AB9-Quad as one example of many this year, it would have been high on your list... LOL.... Our numbers will probably change a little before publication, we are still discussing it, but in the end, if the board does not work and it takes 3 months to get a BIOS, then support is important. As for price, features, and performance, we will probably go a little more heavy on the performance numbers. There are very good arguments to be made for every case which is one reason why a scoring system is so difficult to implement.

But the Abit QuadGT is the fastest P965 board out there now. Even beats the DFI 965-s in some setups.

A good board should be fast and stable right out of the box. It should be compatible with the majority of available hardware. I would never spend big bucks on a board with good specs, with the hope that most of the major bugs would be addressed over time.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Thanks for clarifying things. Looking forward to that article. I hope you didn't drop the IP35-E to 2nd place because it didn't use PCI-E for the LAN. Abit may not have a huge advertising budget, but their IP35 series board can keep up with the best from the big boys.

At $72 AR, the IP35-E puts the Gigabyte and Asus boards in the dog house.

The abit is not in second due to the LAN and might not even stay in second after the latest BIOS. At this time it had more to do with support and less to do with performance. We are switching our rating system on boards. It might seem contrite to some but we thought the old 100 point system might have some merit, of course I might get flamed out of a job also.
35 points for features/price, 35 points for performance, 20 points for support, 10 points for intangibles.

Who needs support when the board works out of the box though

If you had a abit AB9-Quad as one example of many this year, it would have been high on your list... LOL.... Our numbers will probably change a little before publication, we are still discussing it, but in the end, if the board does not work and it takes 3 months to get a BIOS, then support is important. As for price, features, and performance, we will probably go a little more heavy on the performance numbers. There are very good arguments to be made for every case which is one reason why a scoring system is so difficult to implement.

But the Abit QuadGT is the fastest P965 board out there now. Even beats the DFI 965-s in some setups.

A good board should be fast and stable right out of the box. It should be compatible with the majority of available hardware. I would never spend big bucks on a board with good specs, with the hope that most of the major bugs would be addressed over time.

Well, how can you then give a bad "score" to the IP35 based on their support when it can do 500+ FSB out of the box?

Plus you know there is always a cost to buying the newest hardware at release.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

A great board strikes a balance between peformance, stability, compatibility, and price. You wouldn't want to drive an Indy car to work during S Cal's afternoon rush-hour traffic, right?

 

[Staples]

Well, I am glad to know that I am not the only one wondering this question. It was supposed to be out over a month ago.

Glad to hear that it will finally be coming out.

 

[bryanW1995]

I'm interested in Gary's comments about the ip35 pro. Now that I have latest bios I think I'll throw myself against the fsb wall again...(putting on helmet)

 

[stavesacre03]

I've also been eagerly awaiting the P35 roundup, but I need to buy now to complete my new Q6600 rig. I will never go SLI, doubt I'll ever use firewire, and don't need wireless. So I think I can "settle" for a lower end motherboard. However, I also only upgrade every 3-4 years, so I want a quality board that will be stable and have some longevity (like the P4P800 deluxe I'm still using now). I'm also a novice with overclocking, so am looking for a relatively straightforward board for moderate overclocking. Based upon the research I've done, I'm currently leaning toward one of the DS3R boards (maybe the 35C for future DDR3 support) or the IP35 Pro. BTW, I would have considered one of the "lesser" IP35 boards, but the double boot situation has me scared off. Does anyone have feedback given my situation? Thanks in advance.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Double post = Start, stop, start when you first hit the power switch. This will add about 14 seconds to your boot time. No double post when you restart PC from windows. This is a self-check mode built into the P965 and P35 chipset. Some vendors will tweak the BIOS to reduce/eliminate this behaviour.

The IP35-E is a more user-friendly overclocking board, especially for 1st timer. Build quality is very good with all Japanese caps and solid caps around the CPU area for additional clearance and durability. No need to disable alarms and themal sensors. If you must have raid, then go with the mid-level IP35. It's a clone of the IP35-E plus RAID, 1394, and two more SATA plugs.

You can read more about the IP35-E in the motherboard forum.

 

[bryanW1995]

If you're planning to oc on a quad then the ip35 pro has a great rep for that. the ds3p is probably #2 but it's $30 cheaper, so I'd think that's a tossup. If price is your biggest concern then ip35 (e) or ds3r.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

IP35-E and IP35 Pro share the same power section. Both should be able to take Quads up to about 450MHz. Heat will be the limiting factor.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: jkresh
Gary, I know I keep asking this and I am appreciative of what you have said so far, but when will the 680i/high end p35 board roundup(s) be out? Also for the blitz, do you happen to know if the heatpipe/wb is aluminum or copper, I have heard that its aluminum and since my whole loop is copper and I plan on keeping it that way if it is alluminum that basically removes it from contention for me. Thanks again.

I have finished the under $150 P35 boards and my comments reflect our opinions, all of them are good boards when you get right down to it, so it really should be based on features as tenths of second to maybe a couple of seconds/frames in benchmark differences are just not that important at this point.

I was told by ASUS that the Blitz Extreme heatpipe is a hybrid aluminum/cooper design. By the way, overclocking has not changed at all between air or water cooling on the block. The NB temp did drop about 8~10C on average during overclocking but it did not affect the numbers.

I am working on the high end P35 boards from abit and will have the DFI next week. Our previous results with the P5K Deluxe and DQ6 are not changing that much. As far as overclocking goes, the abit IP35-Pro has hit 541FSB but once again, over 500 and performance suffers, just like it does on the other P35 boards.

DFI finally got us a decent BIOS for their 680i board as did ASUS. Gigabyte is finalizing their F5 BIOS this week and MSI delivered their final on Friday for the P6N Diamond. Overall, at this time, I like the Gigabyte for features and the MSI for balance. The EVGA is still the best supported board (in terms of BIOS fixes) and has really good performance to boot. The ASUS Striker has come a long way but memory compatibility is still a little touchy. The DFI is fast as heck once you get it tuned, but Quad Core performance is still lacking.

X38 is delayed slightly again, retail boards sometime in late September to early October at best.

 

[Gary Key]

But the Abit QuadGT is the fastest P965 board out there now. Even beats the DFI 965-s in some setups.

It took almost six months to get there and the first release almost cost them the US market. The users were upset, we were upset, and I know I did not make any friends at abit after dozens of emails, phone calls, and a visit to explain our frustration with them after the BIOS progress and the state of the boards at release. The P35 launch has gone a lot better and hopefully the X38 will be even smoother.

 

[stavesacre03]

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Let's cut to the chase before I get the final roundup completed -

The under $150 boards fall into this rating -
1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (our favorite board right now for the money)
2. MSI P35 Neo2-FR (P08 BIOS brought the board alive)
2. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
2.5 ASUS P5K (latest BIOS might get this to a two)
3. abit IP35 (still a couple of bugs left to work out)
4. Foxconn P35A (should be a rebate on it so it will go under $125, at that point, nice choice)

The under $125 boards fall into this rating -
1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
2. abit IP35-E (not a big fan of the PCI GigE, no reason for it)
2.5 Biostar TP35D2-A7 (last BIOS really fixed a lot of issues)
3. ASUS P5K SE
4. Intel DP35DPM (do not plan on real overclocking, great stock board)

Over $150-
Still working on it... We will have an exclusive on the new Foxconn MARS board (it is surprising) and just got started on the water cooling tests on the new ASUS Blitz boards plus DFI is set to deliver their P35 board next week (looks like it will be going for $299....), the surprise in this group is the abit IP35-Pro as abit finally got it right on a new release...

Gary,
Can you briefly comment on why the DS3P is rated higher than the DS3R? Is it simply a matter of the added features, or is there something else at play? Also, if you were to buy a board, would you spend the extra $30 (above the DS3P) for the IP35 Pro? Thanks.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

But the Abit QuadGT is the fastest P965 board out there now. Even beats the DFI 965-s in some setups.

It took almost six months to get there and the first release almost cost them the US market. The users were upset, we were upset, and I know I did not make any friends at abit after dozens of emails, phone calls, and a visit to explain our frustration with them after the BIOS progress and the state of the boards at release. The P35 launch has gone a lot better and hopefully the X38 will be even smoother.

I'm talking about when P965 was in i's prime. Lets face it... who didn't have issues with DS3 boards not working with a variety of memory? Who didn't have double restarts on the P5B?

Each board had it's problems.

 

[buddhatb]

When should we expect this P35 roundup to be completed and posted on the site?