Anandtech feature on Xbox 360 ?

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
There's one at [ H ]'s. You might wanna see that.

edit: what the hell happened to my post and sig??!
edit2: lol, it's the [ H ] thing without space.

hardocp.com for those that don't know

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: randumb
why does every thread on the xbox have to turn into a consolve vs pc flamewar?

Just to piss you off

It might be time to impose an age limit on these forums . . .

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: randumb
why does every thread on the xbox have to turn into a consolve vs pc flamewar?

Just to piss you off

It might be time to impose an age limit on these forums . . .

I'm all for it, then the pro-ipod/console arguments would have a little more content, rather than just character attacks & namecalling. Btw, that was an informative post DV, though I think you missed the sarcasm in the one it was a reply to

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Yea, gotcha. Apologies. Thats why i added the comment about those articles reading like they came directly from MS. 2007? Pure speculation. The on-die 10MB w/48 pipes certainly sounds nice, but its really tough to predict where HW will go in an open articheture environment (meaning PCs). In fact, i question the reality of the HW MS is reporting. It could be that this unified shader architecture is a bad idea (developers move to openGL?). It could be that multithreaded gaming will not be a reality for a LONG time. It could be that developing for the multicell architecture in this form will be a hinderance and developers will shy away from it. Just speculation...

Interesting take.

I was really impressed with Anandtech's article on the Cell architecture of Sony & IBM. I wish they would do such an in depth article on Xbox 360 too.

Tomorrow Sony is going to unveil PS3, will be exciting.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: randumb
why does every thread on the xbox have to turn into a consolve vs pc flamewar?

Just to piss you off

It might be time to impose an age limit on these forums . . .

I'm all for it, then the pro-ipod/console arguments would have a little more content, rather than just character attacks & namecalling.

This reminds me of a small saying regarding a black pot talking to a black kettle. Here are just a small sampling of the insults you've dished out in the recent Xbox threads:[/list][*]Buying consoles is no different than bending over in front of Sony & MS, pulling down your pants and spreading wide. [*]Btw, since you seem to have trouble reading & answering my question[*]If wasting money is such a great thing, why not paypal me some?[*]And that you wouldn't mind getting screwed in the car scenario either? All you need are a few tattoos on your rear end - "M$ wuz hear" and "$ony 4 lyfe" [*]Or is it legions of idiots who think...[*]I'll stop commenting on your money-wasting habits[*]But hey, I kinda feel bad about messing up the circle jerk you, oroo, and a few others were participating in... [*]They're swinging people around by the sac and people just lap it up with a stupid look on their face and maybe a "ur dummyhed lololol"[*]Naw, just sick of little kids and stupid, computer-illiterate people creaming their shorts every time someone says xbox [*]if not for this I might have thought you older than 14 and wasted even more breath on a response[*]The only reason it's this way in the first place is because most people bend over when $ony & M$ tell them to.[*]It's amazing how weak willed and easily led most people are[*]the shitbox360[*]See this is what I mean, misinformation & bias are the only way you people can make an argument & justify the pos, but god forbid you rethink your stance on it [*]I have a headache after reading that, if you want a response try English; this isn't an AOL chatroom. [*]Sorry to disrupt the circle jerk guys With a little concentration I'm sure you can get your strokes back & finish up... [*]it's like watching lemmings go off a cliff. Btw, as I told wingznut in the GH thread, you can go back to your circle jerk[*]it's just an argument, based on putting words in my mouth, that a dull child brainwashed by MTV and Apple might make against me, lacking any real argument in favor of the ipod... now which dull child might that be? Maybe one who also thinks "u" and "ur" are words, doesn't know the meaning of punctuation or capitalization, can't make a post without insulting me and is responsible for some of AT's most famous runon sentences? [*]Perhaps when you're a bit older (say, 15?)[/list]

Originally posted by: Gurck
I think I spotted a few insults in there too... Not surprising, it's a common tactic when lacking a solid argument.

Well said, Gurck. :roll:

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck
I think I spotted a few insults in there too... Not surprising, it's a common tactic when lacking a solid argument.

Well said, Gurck.

Thanks, I thought so myself. Glad to see we can at least agree on something Thanks for quoting my non-insulting comments, don't really see the reason but it's a nice consolidation of a solid argument against consoles.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck
What's to know? Consoles are just PCs without the versatility or upgradability.

You forgot to add that they have a larger variety of quality titles.

Which isn't limitation of the PC.

I asked you in another thread, Wingz, but you ignored the question, so I'll repeat it: If your town/city suddenly divided into 3-4 sections, requiring a different car to drive in each, and signed deals with automakers to ensure themselves a large cut of the profits, would you buy a second car? A third? Fourth? Keep in mind, in this scenario there's no tangible reason your main car can't drive in the new sections; you only can't because you wouldn't be allowed in if you tried. It's a serious question, please answer it.

If those specialty cars cost a tenth of what my main car did, I might consider it. It would depend on how compelling those sections of town were.

 

[Regs]

Anandtech will more than likely write an in depth article. The upcoming systems will influance the PC market in more ways than one. Not to mention they are all using system built parts from such companies as IBM, ATI, and Nvidia. Plus the new upcoming systems are a lot more interesting than their counter parts. We all ready had a 10 page article about the Cell processor.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck
What's to know? Consoles are just PCs without the versatility or upgradability.

You forgot to add that they have a larger variety of quality titles.

Which isn't limitation of the PC.

I asked you in another thread, Wingz, but you ignored the question, so I'll repeat it: If your town/city suddenly divided into 3-4 sections, requiring a different car to drive in each, and signed deals with automakers to ensure themselves a large cut of the profits, would you buy a second car? A third? Fourth? Keep in mind, in this scenario there's no tangible reason your main car can't drive in the new sections; you only can't because you wouldn't be allowed in if you tried. It's a serious question, please answer it.

If those specialty cars cost a tenth of what my main car did, I might consider it. It would depend on how compelling those sections of town were.

At the lowest, they'd cost around half. At most, they'd cost more (analogy varies depending on the cost of your HDTV).

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: MrChad
If those specialty cars cost a tenth of what my main car did, I might consider it. It would depend on how compelling those sections of town were.

At the lowest, they'd cost around half. At most, they'd cost more (analogy varies depending on the cost of your HDTV).

Since when is HDTV a requirement of consoles?

I don't really play console or computer games much any more, but I did when I was younger. I never really viewed them as competitors. They each seem better suited to different types of games.

Consoles, which are generally played in a more social setting such as a living room, are great for games that can be enjoyed in a small group (e.g. sports titles) and games that don't require highly detailed, high resolution interfaces (e.g. platformers).

PC games are played in a more "intimate" setting; the gamer sits one-on-one much closer to a more high-resolution monitor. That makes the PC an ideal platform for RTS, first-person shooters and other games that require more complex interfaces.

The line is blurring, of course, as consoles are gaining some ridiculous horsepower and PCs seem determined to move into the living room. That said, I find that most arguments about which platform is the "best" are silly and unnecessary.

 

[Gurck]

Resolution is the biggest advantage current PCs have over current consoles. Newer consoles will focus on that, and so to get the most out of them you'd definitely want an HDTV. Of course, within 1-2 years PCs will pull ahead on other image quality fronts just like they did with resolution, but that's beside the point.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If your town/city suddenly divided into 3-4 sections, requiring a different car to drive in each, and signed deals with automakers to ensure themselves a large cut of the profits, would you buy a second car? A third? Fourth? Keep in mind, in this scenario there's no tangible reason your main car can't drive in the new sections; you only can't because you wouldn't be allowed in if you tried. It's a serious question, please answer it.

You have a good point here Gurk but what good would killing off all PC gaming do? Since it is by far the smallest market, and consoles were around long before PC gaming, of course PCs are the ones that must be put down......

There are still a couple of genres PCs handle better then the consoles(even if consoles utterly dominate them to an embarassing degree in almost all gaming aspects). FPSs and RTSs still play a bit better on the PC. Of course this will likely change in the not too distant future at which point PCs will be inferior to consoles in every gaming element, but I'll still keep building my gaming PCs until they stop making games for it.

Having anything less then every viable gaming platform makes for a non gamer; may be a "PC gamer" or a "PS3" gamer or a "XB360 gamer" but certainly no where near a real gamer.

 

[Whitecloak]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: randumb
why does every thread on the xbox have to turn into a consolve vs pc flamewar?

Just to piss you off

It might be time to impose an age limit on these forums . . .

I'm all for it, then the pro-ipod/console arguments would have a little more content, rather than just character attacks & namecalling.

This reminds me of a small saying regarding a black pot talking to a black kettle. Here are just a small sampling of the insults you've dished out in the recent Xbox threads:[/list][*]Buying consoles is no different than bending over in front of Sony & MS, pulling down your pants and spreading wide. [*]Btw, since you seem to have trouble reading & answering my question[*]If wasting money is such a great thing, why not paypal me some?[*]And that you wouldn't mind getting screwed in the car scenario either? All you need are a few tattoos on your rear end - "M$ wuz hear" and "$ony 4 lyfe" [*]Or is it legions of idiots who think...[*]I'll stop commenting on your money-wasting habits[*]But hey, I kinda feel bad about messing up the circle jerk you, oroo, and a few others were participating in... [*]They're swinging people around by the sac and people just lap it up with a stupid look on their face and maybe a "ur dummyhed lololol"[*]Naw, just sick of little kids and stupid, computer-illiterate people creaming their shorts every time someone says xbox [*]if not for this I might have thought you older than 14 and wasted even more breath on a response[*]The only reason it's this way in the first place is because most people bend over when $ony & M$ tell them to.[*]It's amazing how weak willed and easily led most people are[*]the shitbox360[*]See this is what I mean, misinformation & bias are the only way you people can make an argument & justify the pos, but god forbid you rethink your stance on it [*]I have a headache after reading that, if you want a response try English; this isn't an AOL chatroom. [*]Sorry to disrupt the circle jerk guys With a little concentration I'm sure you can get your strokes back & finish up... [*]it's like watching lemmings go off a cliff. Btw, as I told wingznut in the GH thread, you can go back to your circle jerk[*]it's just an argument, based on putting words in my mouth, that a dull child brainwashed by MTV and Apple might make against me, lacking any real argument in favor of the ipod... now which dull child might that be? Maybe one who also thinks "u" and "ur" are words, doesn't know the meaning of punctuation or capitalization, can't make a post without insulting me and is responsible for some of AT's most famous runon sentences? [*]Perhaps when you're a bit older (say, 15?)[/list]

Originally posted by: Gurck
I think I spotted a few insults in there too... Not surprising, it's a common tactic when lacking a solid argument.

Well said, Gurck. :roll:

Awesome complilation of some of the comments!

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Resolution is the biggest advantage current PCs have over current consoles. Newer consoles will focus on that, and so to get the most out of them you'd definitely want an HDTV. Of course, within 1-2 years PCs will pull ahead on other image quality fronts just like they did with resolution, but that's beside the point.

Yea, but i just wonder about the game play differences on a 720p versus 1080i? Shoot the LCD im currently staring at does 1280x1024 "progressive." Are there any 1080p TVs? If so, that would be incredible with next gen consoles.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
You have a good point here Gurk but what good would killing off all PC gaming do? Since it is by far the smallest market, and consoles were around long before PC gaming, of course PCs are the ones that must be put down......

There are still a couple of genres PCs handle better then the consoles(even if consoles utterly dominate them to an embarassing degree in almost all gaming aspects). FPSs and RTSs still play a bit better on the PC. Of course this will likely change in the not too distant future at which point PCs will be inferior to consoles in every gaming element, but I'll still keep building my gaming PCs until they stop making games for it.

Having anything less then every viable gaming platform makes for a non gamer; may be a "PC gamer" or a "PS3" gamer or a "XB360 gamer" but certainly no where near a real gamer.

Are you honestly saying 5 year old hardware displaying games in 640x480 "dominate [PCs] to an embarassing degree"? :laugh: Consoles will be on par for a year or so after the release of the xbox2 and ps3, then slip back into obsolescence. The only way they "dominate" PCs for gaming is in numbers - but AOL dominates other ISPs in this regard, Bose other "high-end" speaker manufacturers, ipods other DAPs... Appealing to the lowest common denominator and having a large advertising budget doesn't actually make a product good.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Are you honestly saying 5 year old hardware displaying games in 640x480 "dominate [PCs] to an embarassing degree"? :laugh: Consoles will be on par for a year or so after the release of the xbox2 and ps3, then slip back into obsolescence.

Ben isn't talking about just graphics... He's talking about the complete experience.

There are a few genres that are more fun to play on a PC, and there are several that are more enjoyable on a console.

I would rather play a racing game on my console, than my PC. I would rather play a platformer on my console. I would rather play a sports game on a console. Survival horror (i.e. RE4) is better on a console.

Pretty much any game that I want to play split screen with my friends. That just doesn't work on a PC, period.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck
Are you honestly saying 5 year old hardware displaying games in 640x480 "dominate [PCs] to an embarassing degree"? :laugh: Consoles will be on par for a year or so after the release of the xbox2 and ps3, then slip back into obsolescence.

Ben isn't talking about just graphics... He's talking about the complete experience.

There are a few genres that are more fun to play on a PC, and there are several that are more enjoyable on a console.

I would rather play a racing game on my console, than my PC. I would rather play a platformer on my console. I would rather play a sports game on a console. Survival horror (i.e. RE4) is better on a console.

Pretty much any game that I want to play split screen with my friends. That just doesn't work on a PC, period.

You're missing the point though. There's no technical reason these games can't be the same or better on a PC. PCs support multiple inputs via USB and can output to a TV no problem. They can do everything consoles can; consoles are just gimped PCs after all. The "need" for consoles; that they're better for certain genres & playstyles and have certain titles not available on the PC, is entirely manuufactured by console makers.

 

[raystorm]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck
Are you honestly saying 5 year old hardware displaying games in 640x480 "dominate [PCs] to an embarassing degree"? :laugh: Consoles will be on par for a year or so after the release of the xbox2 and ps3, then slip back into obsolescence.

Ben isn't talking about just graphics... He's talking about the complete experience.

There are a few genres that are more fun to play on a PC, and there are several that are more enjoyable on a console.

I would rather play a racing game on my console, than my PC. I would rather play a platformer on my console. I would rather play a sports game on a console. Survival horror (i.e. RE4) is better on a console.

Pretty much any game that I want to play split screen with my friends. That just doesn't work on a PC, period.

You're missing the point though. There's no technical reason these games can't be the same or better on a PC. PCs support multiple inputs via USB and can output to a TV no problem. They can do everything consoles can; consoles are just gimped PCs after all. The "need" for consoles; that they're better for certain genres & playstyles and have certain titles not available on the PC, is entirely manuufactured by console makers.

My goodness...you dont seem to get the point. Yes.. we all know that every console can be done the same or better on a pc.

Consoles are made to do one thing and that is to play games. Just plug it in, insert game and play. Thats it. Yes.. you could do the same with a pc but consoles are still far for simple to deal with.

Also there is no true standard on the pc when it comes for gaming. Wouldn't it be great if every game took advantage of the latest cards and use every Direct X9 feature?? Well sorry..that just wont happen as every pc is different. Consoles have set specs that will not change and that eliminates any compatibility issues that many pc gamers deal with (I don't have any problems myself but we all know lots of people have issues with their games).

You also have to consider the different demographic when it comes to consoles. You think 10 year old Jimmy is gonna ask him mommy for a 1000+ dollar PC just to play games?? I doubt the kid gives a damn about operating systems, office software, programming..etc that a pc offers...he just wants to turn on his system, pick up a controller and play a game with some friends.

Also you should realize that many if not half (not sure of the true percentage) of games for consoles are made in Japan. Japan doesn't care for gaming on a pc and they also hate FPS titles (due to some motion sickness issues). PC gaming is just non-existant in japan. Could they develop on the PC?? Sure..but they don't care for the pc as a gaming platform.

There is certainly a need for consoles as they do one thing and one thing well and that is play games and they are of course much more affordable for the average joe who doesn't give a damn about pc's and what they could do.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Regs
Anandtech will more than likely write an in depth article. The upcoming systems will influance the PC market in more ways than one. Not to mention they are all using system built parts from such companies as IBM, ATI, and Nvidia. Plus the new upcoming systems are a lot more interesting than their counter parts. We all ready had a 10 page article about the Cell processor.

Thats good to know.

Does anyone know what time today Sony will showcase their PS3 ? Thanks.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: raystorm
My goodness...you dont seem to get the point. Yes.. we all know that every console can be done the same or better on a pc.

Consoles are made to do one thing and that is to play games. Just plug it in, insert game and play. Thats it. Yes.. you could do the same with a pc but consoles are still far for simple to deal with.

Also there is no true standard on the pc when it comes for gaming. Wouldn't it be great if every game took advantage of the latest cards and use every Direct X9 feature?? Well sorry..that just wont happen as every pc is different. Consoles have set specs that will not change and that eliminates any compatibility issues that many pc gamers deal with (I don't have any problems myself but we all know lots of people have issues with their games).

You also have to consider the different demographic when it comes to consoles. You think 10 year old Jimmy is gonna ask him mommy for a 1000+ dollar PC just to play games?? I doubt the kid gives a damn about operating systems, office software, programming..etc that a pc offers...he just wants to turn on his system, pick up a controller and play a game with some friends.

Also you should realize that many if not half (not sure of the true percentage) of games for consoles are made in Japan. Japan doesn't care for gaming on a pc and they also hate FPS titles (due to some motion sickness issues). PC gaming is just non-existant in japan. Could they develop on the PC?? Sure..but they don't care for the pc as a gaming platform.

There is certainly a need for consoles as they do one thing and one thing well and that is play games and they are of course much more affordable for the average joe who doesn't give a damn about pc's and what they could do.

Oh I get the point, it's just baflling to see people on a tech board, who aren't the average Joe and who do have PCs, spouting the same BS rationalization for consoles as people who think AOL is high tech and hard to use. Also, if you couldn't tell, I'm disgusted by how consoles hold back the gaming industry.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Also, if you couldn't tell, I'm disgusted by how consoles hold back the gaming industry.

Have you suffered severe brain trauma? Consoles are the reason there is a gaming industry. Take consoles revenue out of the equation and your publishers are all dead. No publishers- no funds for startup dev houses to turn into major dev houses that can fund their own development. Consoles drive the industry. Not to mention- nearly every game out for the XBox utilizes shaders of some sort and has for years- that is still the minority of PC games. When the next gen of consoles hit they will all be pushing SM 3.0 level features and up while PCs will be lucky to see more then 15% of titles hitting that level within the the next few years. PCs dynamic nature holds them back more then anything.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Also, if you couldn't tell, I'm disgusted by how consoles hold back the gaming industry.

Have you suffered severe brain trauma? Consoles are the reason there is a gaming industry. Take consoles revenue out of the equation and your publishers are all dead. No publishers- no funds for startup dev houses to turn into major dev houses that can fund their own development. Consoles drive the industry.

Excellent point.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Also, if you couldn't tell, I'm disgusted by how consoles hold back the gaming industry.

Have you suffered severe brain trauma? Consoles are the reason there is a gaming industry. Take consoles revenue out of the equation and your publishers are all dead. No publishers- no funds for startup dev houses to turn into major dev houses that can fund their own development. Consoles drive the industry. Not to mention- nearly every game out for the XBox utilizes shaders of some sort and has for years- that is still the minority of PC games. When the next gen of consoles hit they will all be pushing SM 3.0 level features and up while PCs will be lucky to see more then 15% of titles hitting that level within the the next few years. PCs dynamic nature holds them back more then anything.

Consoles hold back gaming by retaining the same hardware for ~5 years. Game development for hardware coming out every 5 years can't compete with what game development could be if it were focused on PCs, for which the available hardware gets better on an almost daily basis. Your point would only make sense given the assumption that money which has been spent on consoles would not have been instead spent on PC gaming.

And no, I've never suffered any brain trauma, thanks for your concern. You idiot.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Your point would only make sense given the assumption that money which has been spent on consoles would not have been instead spent on PC gaming.

Well of course not... The market for PC gaming is nowhere near as strong. There just aren't as many people playing games on their PC.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck
Your point would only make sense given the assumption that money which has been spent on consoles would not have been instead spent on PC gaming.

Well of course not... The market for PC gaming is nowhere near as strong. There just aren't as many people playing games on their PC.

Because of consoles.