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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
---
Now, what I did say was: "there are higher power consuming cpu's that live in even smaller cases, that don't use "exotic" cooling."... And that is very much a fact.
---

Again. Name one!

You continually call me out and harrass my posts with your gospel talk. Now I am asking you to name one without posting 20 additional messages which still dont answer anything.

If you want to play moderator at least be able to back yourself up.
Find a dual Xeon or dual Athlon-MP box that fits in a standard ATX case. Ta da! But wait! Not only that, but you can cool those AND SCSI HDs in a normal tower.
...you just have to use halfway decent equipment and control airflow.
 
Sep 15, 2003
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Sorry but good try.

Servers cases are much different from consumer PC's. Prescott is not a server CPU.

But I do have to give it to you a Dual machine does produce more heat than a single chip but thats not what were looking for.

Lets also confirm Neither of these chips are remotely close to 105+ on either chip.

Servers are also in controlled environments with massive cooling systems.

Wingnutz has to come up with a single CPU that produces over 105 watts what was released to general consumers that was cooled without exotic cooling. he claims it was done before.

In order for Prescott to be widely accepted for home use or even buisness desktop use it must be able to withstand poor case airflow conditions. That means not attempting to do dustbuster add on's like nvidia cards. Most people wont tolerate the noise and additional heat produced.
 

menads

Member
Sep 25, 2003
49
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
---
Now, what I did say was: "there are higher power consuming cpu's that live in even smaller cases, that don't use "exotic" cooling."... And that is very much a fact.
---

Again. Name one!

You continually call me out and harrass my posts with your gospel talk. Now I am asking you to name one without posting 20 additional messages which still dont answer anything.

If you want to play moderator at least be able to back yourself up.
Find a dual Xeon or dual Athlon-MP box that fits in a standard ATX case. Ta da! But wait! Not only that, but you can cool those AND SCSI HDs in a normal tower.
...you just have to use halfway decent equipment and control airflow.
You somehow manage to omit noticing that dual Xeons (Athlon MP) are cooled by 2 heatsinks (large ones) not 1 first and second server cases (costing several hundred dollars and noisy as a lawnmowers) has no relevance whatsoever to desktop PC in $20 POS case. In addition to that in order to keep this beasts below 65F in the server room of our division has several thousand dollars Air Conditioneer system (with the strict requirements for moist/performance such systems can cost easily 10grands).
And yes there are CPUs that dissipate 100W+ - Itanium, newest Power4, Alphas but cooling those beasts is definately not cheap (well compared to the prices of the CPUs they are nothing but in terms of $ they are way out of reach for most home users). Also if you think 100W+ is a good feature of Itaniums just ask Google (and other companies) what was the reason they rejected to purchase those.
So the only good think that may come from 100W+ Prescott is if Intel pushes mass produced superior cooling systems (and no, dustbusters are not a solution) - I am even hoping for the cheap water/heatpipe cooling.
And untill such a good and cheap cooling solution is available no 100W CPU will be in any machine I recommend/approve.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
Sorry but good try.

Servers cases are much different from consumer PC's. Prescott is not a server CPU.
What are you smoking? I said standard ATX. Look at case galleries and you shall find them, unless you define aftermarket heatsinks and LED fans as exotic cooling (exotic maybe, but normal cooling).
But I do have to give it to you a Dual machine does produce more heat than a single chip but thats not what were looking for.

Lets also confirm Neither of these chips are remotely close to 105+ on either chip.
That's why duallies...combined output aught to be very close, if not far exceeding (in the Xeons especially) the Prescott's heat, and typically the heatsinks used are just big, and could probably be made all copper and do better.
Servers are also in controlled environments with massive cooling systems.
I'll give you controlled environments--72F being a nice max ambient temp :), but massive cooling systems? Um...try a PSU fan and exhaust fan. An extra fan for 2U cases for the drive area...less than a lot of normal PCs, but much like OEM PCs, the cases are designed around effective cooling, and do the job well. IMO, having a piece of folded plastic over the heatsink to control where the air goes is not exotic, either.
Wingnutz has to come up with a single CPU that produces over 105 watts what was released to general consumers that was cooled without exotic cooling. he claims it was done before.

In order for Prescott to be widely accepted for home use or even buisness desktop use it must be able to withstand poor case airflow conditions.
No modern CPU can handle poor airflow conditions. You just can't run a new Athlon in the same cramped desktop case that Athlon 700[1] runs in with a crappy exhaust fan, cables everywhere and no room for air to come in. If it must be better, it must be better. Most are getting there, and if Intel says they should conform, THEY WILL.
That means not attempting to do dustbuster add on's like nvidia cards. Most people wont tolerate the noise and additional heat produced.
No, we won't...some crazy people bought them, though.

1 - My mom's PC, Slot Athlon 700, was making some odd noises. So after a few days, opened it up and found the heatsink hanging in the case by the fan wires. The machine wasn't even have to be turned off. And this is still a nasty airflow situation, the side of the case feels hot to the touch--but no abnormalities have occured, and it's over 3 years old now, whereas I near ruined my current Athlon by switching cases...just couldn't push enough air out of the case.
 
Sep 15, 2003
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Exactly my point being Prescott running at over 105+ will never see the home or commercial desktop. It simply runs way too hot.

They would need to get it around 90 watts to be acceptible. Even then it will require a massive heatsink cooling combo which adds to the cost. Cheap by CPU standards but expensive compared to chips in the 70 watt range.

Before anyone goes nuts again. When we are talking about WATTS it is a measurement of heat not electricity. When you think of watts in electricity your thinking P=VI. Power(Wattage) = Voltage * Current.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: menads
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
---
Now, what I did say was: "there are higher power consuming cpu's that live in even smaller cases, that don't use "exotic" cooling."... And that is very much a fact.
---

Again. Name one!

You continually call me out and harrass my posts with your gospel talk. Now I am asking you to name one without posting 20 additional messages which still dont answer anything.

If you want to play moderator at least be able to back yourself up.
Find a dual Xeon or dual Athlon-MP box that fits in a standard ATX case. Ta da! But wait! Not only that, but you can cool those AND SCSI HDs in a normal tower.
...you just have to use halfway decent equipment and control airflow.
You somehow manage to omit noticing that dual Xeons (Athlon MP) are cooled by 2 heatsinks (large ones) not 1 first
Can't get around that with 2 CPUs and keeping it in a standard case, but even those heatsinks aren't too impressive, except in size, and still fit comfortably[/quote]and second server cases (costing several hundred dollars and noisy as a lawnmowers) has no relevance whatsoever to desktop PC in $20 POS case.[/quote]Try $50 to $100 cases, maybe full towers if needed. I don't feel like browsing case galleries right now, but you can find them if you look. In addition, normal Athlons will get cooked in some $20 POS cases, and even if not, I don't want to slightly lean on the case while working and have it bend on me, or a piece of plastic break off. If you use one, you deserve any problems it offers.
In addition to that in order to keep this beasts below 65F in the server room of our division has several thousand dollars Air Conditioneer system (with the strict requirements for moist/performance such systems can cost easily 10grands).
If you have lots of them, of course you'd need better AC...part of why watts are used, so you can tally that up. For most people at home the question is more about how much it uses in sleep mode.
And yes there are CPUs that dissipate 100W+ - Itanium, newest Power4, Alphas but cooling those beasts is definately not cheap (well compared to the prices of the CPUs they are nothing but in terms of $ they are way out of reach for most home users). Also if you think 100W+ is a good feature of Itaniums just ask Google (and other companies) what was the reason they rejected to purchase those.
So the only good think that may come from 100W+ Prescott is if Intel pushes mass produced superior cooling systems (and no, dustbusters are not a solution) - I am even hoping for the cheap water/heatpipe cooling.
And untill such a good and cheap cooling solution is available no 100W CPU will be in any machine I recommend/approve.
That I can agree with. However, I doubt water will come too soon. It will come, in some form, but if Thermalright's consistent improvements on their line are any indication, air still has quite a bit of life, it just needs more amss production to reduce the cost of the HSFs (the days of $10 coolers might be going away...not that that would be terrible).
 

menads

Member
Sep 25, 2003
49
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb


I'll give you controlled environments--72F being a nice max ambient temp :), but massive cooling systems? Um...try a PSU fan and exhaust fan. An extra fan for 2U cases for the drive area...less than a lot of normal PCs, but much like OEM PCs, the cases are designed around effective cooling, and do the job well. IMO, having a piece of folded plastic over the heatsink to control where the air goes is not exotic, either.
Well I think he is talking about server room where cooling is really massive. Cooling 2U is nothing but now imagine 48 dual 1U put in a rack - just the processors alone will dissipate 96*100=9600W (not counting SCSI, PS and other insignifficant stuff). I hope you realize that it is NOT easy to dissipate 10KW energy easy and to keep the room temperature below 72F (actually at our company the standart is 65F) you require outstanding cooling system. Also even the current Xeon has a problems with cooling in a 1U system (and those are noisy as hell not just Xeons but Operons too, probably PM fits there the best here) - there are not many solutions for dual Xeon in 1U (if there is any at all which I don't know for sure but several months ago there wasn't). And while Prescott is not business CPU the future Xeon will probably be based on Prescott core so there is relevance.
Of course we are talking about home PC so that is way out of topic. The point is current cooling solutions are either expensive or noisy for such a CPU (for me $20 for heatsink is alredy expensive for mass-market). So either they will have to find a way to control dissipation or just simply to make cooling systems cheaper. I have always been fan of fanless/noiseless system and I think this tendency is going to get more and more popular.


 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
10
81
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
Exactly my point being Prescott running at over 105+ will never see the home or commercial desktop. It simply runs way too hot.

They would need to get it around 90 watts to be acceptible. Even then it will require a massive heatsink cooling combo which adds to the cost. Cheap by CPU standards but expensive compared to chips in the 70 watt range.

Before anyone goes nuts again. When we are talking about WATTS it is a measurement of heat not electricity. When you think of watts in electricity your thinking P=VI. Power(Wattage) = Voltage * Current.
The Athlon-64's thermal design power is 89 watts... does that mean it's just barely able to be sold as a home or commercial desktop processor? If so... then does that mean we'll never see faster version of the Athlon-64?
 
Sep 15, 2003
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I agree I just spent a small fortune trying to make my home server room quiet. It Was bad to the point where my wife would yell to me and I couldnt hear her. Making her pretty mad. I did have to scale back some of the overclocks in order for the CPU's to take to slower speed fans. Well worth it because now you can hear hard drives moving over the fans. For a while I was thinking I was going to get sucked into one of my PC's intakes.
 

menads

Member
Sep 25, 2003
49
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb

Try $50 to $100 cases, maybe full towers if needed. I don't feel like browsing case galleries right now, but you can find them if you look. In addition, normal Athlons will get cooked in some $20 POS cases, and even if not, I don't want to slightly lean on the case while working and have it bend on me, or a piece of plastic break off. If you use one, you deserve any problems it offers.
If you have lots of them, of course you'd need better AC...part of why watts are used, so you can tally that up. For most people at home the question is more about how much it uses in sleep mode.
First like I mentioned above even $20 aftermarket for HSF is too much for mass market, let alone cases for $50-$100.
Also all my Athlons that I had has been in such $20 POS case (not the PS though - I bought the best one $30 can buy)
and my Athlon 2100XP is usually running undervolted with large SLK800 heatsink with temperature controlled fan. The only time I overclock the machine to 2.3GHz (runs perfectly stable at that with just 0.1V bump) is when I am doing some heavy reencoding/light 3D and has to wait for hours. And of course if I had the machine that can do this as fast beeing underclocked I was going to do that. And finally, no I am not going to buy full tower - I even prefer to have one of those mini PCs so that I can use that as a HTPC/multimedia in my living room. And most people out there are not like us enthusiast, they do not like when they have to buy additionally $20 HS or $50 case (like my wife says if $20 case will do why buy the $50 one?) unless they are forced to do it. And for people that need HTPC for living room - they have 2 choices either have a second more powerfull machine for work or to put up with the noise in the living room (how many non geeks can tolerate that?). Also can you imagine how will someone feel if he buy such chip and discover that it can not run in his existing case or overheat (that already happened with Athlons and people were definately NOT happy)?


 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: menads
Originally posted by: Cerb


I'll give you controlled environments--72F being a nice max ambient temp :), but massive cooling systems? Um...try a PSU fan and exhaust fan. An extra fan for 2U cases for the drive area...less than a lot of normal PCs, but much like OEM PCs, the cases are designed around effective cooling, and do the job well. IMO, having a piece of folded plastic over the heatsink to control where the air goes is not exotic, either.
Well I think he is talking about server room where cooling is really massive. Cooling 2U is nothing but now imagine 48 dual 1U put in a rack - just the processors alone will dissipate 96*100=9600W (not counting SCSI, PS and other insignifficant stuff). I hope you realize that it is NOT easy to dissipate 10KW energy easy and to keep the room temperature below 72F (actually at our company the standart is 65F) you require outstanding cooling system.
to quote myself, "If you have lots of them, of course you'd need better AC"
Also even the current Xeon has a problems with cooling in a 1U system (and those are noisy as hell not just Xeons but Operons too, probably PM fits there the best here) - there are not many solutions for dual Xeon in 1U (if there is any at all which I don't know for sure but several months ago there wasn't).
I know for blades there are, but doubt they are full power, and Opterons there are, but all those little squirrel-cage fans have got to be noisy...why I mentioned 2U, as you can fit decent heatsinks and normal-sized fans in there.
And while Prescott is not business CPU the future Xeon will probably be based on Prescott core so there is relevance.
Of course we are talking about home PC so that is way out of topic. The point is current cooling solutions are either expensive or noisy for such a CPU (for me $20 for heatsink is alredy expensive for mass-market).
For an Athlon, it's getting there. $20 marks the spot where you're either going for super quiet or super cool. For P4s...few are under that price and offer anything more than the retain coolers
So either they will have to find a way to control dissipation or just simply to make cooling systems cheaper. I have always been fan of fanless/noiseless system and I think this tendency is going to get more and more popular.
Fanless doesn't look so good...noiseless, close. Not for high performance, but the new 1800+ should have little difficulty with an undervolted exhaust fan and good heatsink.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: menads
Originally posted by: Cerb

Try $50 to $100 cases, maybe full towers if needed. I don't feel like browsing case galleries right now, but you can find them if you look. In addition, normal Athlons will get cooked in some $20 POS cases, and even if not, I don't want to slightly lean on the case while working and have it bend on me, or a piece of plastic break off. If you use one, you deserve any problems it offers.
If you have lots of them, of course you'd need better AC...part of why watts are used, so you can tally that up. For most people at home the question is more about how much it uses in sleep mode.
First like I mentioned above even $20 aftermarket for HSF is too much for mass market, let alone cases for $50-$100.
Don't know about mass market. I know what I'm willing to build with, what sysadmins I know are willing to build with, all the problems in using and working inside cheap cases, and that if you want cheap, go Dell and get a loss-leader cheapie box.
Also all my Athlons that I had has been in such $20 POS case (not the PS though - I bought the best one $30 can buy)
Lucky or undervolting...I have to have mine undervolted for its current case (Still can't find a wood box)
and my Athlon 2100XP is usually running undervolted with large SLK800 heatsink with temperature controlled fan.
AX-7, does great.
The only time I overclock the machine to 2.3GHz (runs perfectly stable at that with just 0.1V bump) is when I am doing some heavy reencoding/light 3D and has to wait for hours. And of course if I had the machine that can do this as fast beeing underclocked I was going to do that. And finally, no I am not going to buy full tower - I even prefer to have one of those mini PCs so that I can use that as a HTPC/multimedia in my living room.
That's whete heatsinks get ya...and where VIA starts looking really nice.
And most people out there are not like us enthusiast, they do not like when they have to buy additionally $20 HS or $50 case (like my wife says if $20 case will do why buy the $50 one?) unless they are forced to do it.
I dunno...Shuttle XPCs are basically that, and they seem to sell.
And for people that need HTPC for living room - they have 2 choices either have a second more powerfull machine for work or to put up with the noise in the living room (how many non geeks can tolerate that?).
Why would only have on PC and do that? Then again, I guess some people want it all in one box, and that poses extra problems.
Also can you imagine how will someone feel if he buy such chip and discover that it can not run in his existing case or overheat (that already happened with Athlons and people were definately NOT happy)?
They sure won't feel good about it...luckily they will at least have to get new mobos for the Prescott, so shouldn't be any major issue if that needs a change. The worst thing is when that happens and you had no warning, like with the 1+GHz Tbirds. Sure we all knew later, but not when they were several-hundred-dollar CPUs!
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
2,946
0
0
when AMD comes out with a 105 watt CPU, i do not want to see you buy it
processors will only get hotter and hotter

and about the exotic cooling argument, it's rubbish.........intel ain't stupid to let it's procs burn up and then replace them with new ones
 
Sep 15, 2003
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I have found that the 6.00 speeze cpu coolers work as good as massive copper heatsinks costing 25-30.00. Maybe I could get one more speed grade out of a massive copper heatsink but I would rather have quiet than wonder where the jet plane is during a game of whatever I am into that day.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
I have found that the 6.00 speeze cpu coolers work as good as massive copper heatsinks costing 25-30.00. Maybe I could get one more speed grade out of a massive copper heatsink but I would rather have quiet than wonder where the jet plane is during a game of whatever I am into that day.
...some of us have reached that point now, hence big copper heatsinks and not worrying about the speed-grade...replace the HSF when a new socket is needed or a far better one comes out. Such is the price of being able to hear the cat purr from another room.
 

menads

Member
Sep 25, 2003
49
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb

Don't know about mass market. I know what I'm willing to build with, what sysadmins I know are willing to build with, all the problems in using and working inside cheap cases, and that if you want cheap, go Dell and get a loss-leader cheapie box.

Lucky or undervolting...I have to have mine undervolted for its current case (Still can't find a wood box)
What machine is this - my 2100XP is TBred and is running fine even overclocked to 2.3GHz in that case (noisy thought)?

AX-7, does great.
The only reason I got the SLK is that it was a hot deal - $20 (I told ya!)
Also what would you need the wooden box for - wood is the worst heat conductor that I can possibly think of?

That's whete heatsinks get ya...and where VIA starts looking really nice.
Unfortunately VIA is too slow for good image processing (you need atleast 1GHz for good HTPC and if you plan to use it with the HDTV card you are looking more at 1.5GHz-2.0GHz non PR, AMD/P3M ones)

I dunno...Shuttle XPCs are basically that, and they seem to sell.
Well Shuttle sells but they cost $100+ and it is difficult to put large HDD, good video and eventually HDTV card (planned soon) and cool it enought silently.

Why would only have on PC and do that? Then again, I guess some people want it all in one box, and that poses extra problems.
What's wrong with having the same PC for work and when you want to watch some nice movie turn on the Infocus X1 and feed it through it - I have 50feet VGA to RGB cable from the PC to projector to do it now but it is difficult to control it since I don't want to place the PC in my living room (or shall I say my wife doesn't want it ;) )



 
Sep 15, 2003
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I got an HDTV card in my pc now and to me its a waste of money because it downsamples to 480i on svhs output. But I hear I can record in all 18 HDTV formats with modded drivers. But the silly part is I have nothing to burn it to until HD-DVD's arrive. Or I could span 4+ DVD's in 1080i or 720P modes but even then I would need a PC with Component outputs to utilize it. Too much work. I will wait for the HD-Tivo or a similar PC card with good output. Seriously considered the JVC HD recorder for a while.

I am much happier with HDTV from comcast but am anxously awaiting the new satellite company that begins October 16th. Its called hoop or something. Cant remember the name but they are going to be broadcasting 48 channels if I recall correctly. But even then there is only a handfull of channels in HD.

Im all over the place now.
 

Evdawg

Senior member
Aug 23, 2003
979
0
0
Is it just me or is tick trying to boast about his knowledge? sure, you know alot... dont be a butt about it though =\
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: menads
Originally posted by: Cerb

Don't know about mass market. I know what I'm willing to build with, what sysadmins I know are willing to build with, all the problems in using and working inside cheap cases, and that if you want cheap, go Dell and get a loss-leader cheapie box.

Lucky or undervolting...I have to have mine undervolted for its current case (Still can't find a wood box)
What machine is this - my 2100XP is TBred and is running fine even overclocked to 2.3GHz in that case (noisy thought)?
1800+, 1.65v palomino, in a MicronPC Palo Alto case with a front bezel that hinders air. And I mean that...Enermax adjustable 92mm fan set to low and at 7v before that, and the noise coming from the PC is clearly that fan fighting backpressure. Overheated at 1.75v (default) no matter what, but at 1.65v, it's been rock stable.
AX-7, does great.
The only reason I got the SLK is that it was a hot deal - $20 (I told ya!)
Also what would you need the wooden box for - wood is the worst heat conductor that I can possibly think of?
...as if aluminum cases really help with heat...?
I want it to make a case out of, as I don't like the looks of any PC cases, really. Sheet aluminum, make sure it's all grounded, put part of a case is there (mobo tray and expansion slots)...
That's whete heatsinks get ya...and where VIA starts looking really nice.
Unfortunately VIA is too slow for good image processing (you need atleast 1GHz for good HTPC and if you plan to use it with the HDTV card you are looking more at 1.5GHz-2.0GHz non PR, AMD/P3M ones)
...or pure hardware, but that's as much as getting the needed CPU power if you're using HDTV.
I dunno...Shuttle XPCs are basically that, and they seem to sell.
Well Shuttle sells but they cost $100+ and it is difficult to put large HDD, good video and eventually HDTV card (planned soon) and cool it enought silently.
Not sure about silently, but it's suprising what goes in there and stays cool--just that stuff stays within specs cool, not nice and cool like most of us like it.
Why would only have on PC and do that? Then again, I guess some people want it all in one box, and that poses extra problems.
What's wrong with having the same PC for work and when you want to watch some nice movie turn on the Infocus X1 and feed it through it - I have 50feet VGA to RGB cable from the PC to projector to do it now but it is difficult to control it since I don't want to place the PC in my living room (or shall I say my wife doesn't want it ;) )
Well, first the extra cable there, and also that one can be turned off for whatever reason and the other is still available. Also, aside from the noise (will try to fix that once I get my case done), a dedicated PC w/ a Radeon AIW and remote is quite nice.
 

menads

Member
Sep 25, 2003
49
0
0
Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
I got an HDTV card in my pc now and to me its a waste of money because it downsamples to 480i on svhs output. But I hear I can record in all 18 HDTV formats with modded drivers. But the silly part is I have nothing to burn it to until HD-DVD's arrive. Or I could span 4+ DVD's in 1080i or 720P modes but even then I would need a PC with Component outputs to utilize it. Too much work. I will wait for the HD-Tivo or a similar PC card with good output. Seriously considered the JVC HD recorder for a while.
I don't know what is your problem with 480i since svhs is by nature 480i so even if it is upsampled to 720p or 1080i you still are not going to get much quality (it is just not there in the signal at the first place, though Faroudja deinterlacer is making wonders with interlaced signal). Second to be able to utilize well the HDTV signal you need a good display device. And finally MyHD cards lets you 1) upsample the signals to 720p and 2) it acts as a PVR - you can record everything on the hard drive. I also prefer to have HD-DirecTivo but that is only because there are not enough OTA HD programming where I live.

I am much happier with HDTV from comcast but am anxously awaiting the new satellite company that begins October 16th. Its called hoop or something. Cant remember the name but they are going to be broadcasting 48 channels if I recall correctly. But even then there is only a handfull of channels in HD.

Im all over the place now.
I haven't heard about this company - can you provide some info? Cause even now there is enough HD channels on DirectTV to be worth $10 per month to get HDTV.


 
Sep 15, 2003
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Here you go. What I dont like is the cost of the Direct Tv equipment on top of that $10.00

http://www.voom.com/

Your wait is over. VOOM arrives on October 15.

VOOM is HDTV Delivered: the first HDTV-focused satellite service to offer a full schedule of great HD programming for your HDTV set. In fact, VOOM delivers 39 HD channels, including 21 exclusive channels you can't see anywhere else. That's more than four times the HD programming of any other provider.
 

menads

Member
Sep 25, 2003
49
0
0
Originally posted by: Cerb<br
1800+, 1.65v palomino, in a MicronPC Palo Alto case with a front bezel that hinders air. And I mean that...Enermax adjustable 92mm fan set to low and at 7v before that, and the noise coming from the PC is clearly that fan fighting backpressure. Overheated at 1.75v (default) no matter what, but at 1.65v, it's been rock stable.
Well you may have a worse POS case than my POS (1800+Palo should be in the same heat neighbourhood as 2100+TBred).
I want it to make a case out of, as I don't like the looks of any PC cases, really. Sheet aluminum, make sure it's all grounded, put part of a case is there (mobo tray and expansion slots)...
I hear you about being ugly but keep in mind that while difference of thermal conductivity of steel and aluminum is not that big, the differenfce between steel and wood is overwhelming (actually wood is used as an isolators in building industry). And no matter what people say the fact that case is made from metal (whether steel or sluminum) really helps with cooling - probably atleast 5 degree C (the outer shell of steel case probably weight several pounds and has signifficant area to cool down).

...or pure hardware, but that's as much as getting the needed CPU power if you're using HDTV.
unfortunately the more powerfull HDTV cards cost more money and are usually full length cards.

Not sure about silently, but it's suprising what goes in there and stays cool--just that stuff stays within specs cool, not nice and cool like most of us like it.
Well I don't have one myself but a friend have a 2.0GHz celeron one and it is noisy despite that he has only HDD and CD inside the case (graphics is on the MB).

Well, first the extra cable there, and also that one can be turned off for whatever reason and the other is still available. Also, aside from the noise (will try to fix that once I get my case done), a dedicated PC w/ a Radeon AIW and remote is quite nice.
The cables in my case are not problems since I laid them in the wall and projector is ceiling mounted and when I am watching movie with my wife there is nobody else that can turn the PC off (no kids yet). If I had a small and silent one it would stay in the living room and I would work there - I don't mind looking on the projector instead of the monitor plus I already have wireless mouse/KB.

 

menads

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Sep 25, 2003
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Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
Here you go. What I dont like is the cost of the Direct Tv equipment on top of that $10.00

http://www.voom.com/

Your wait is over. VOOM arrives on October 15.

VOOM is HDTV Delivered: the first HDTV-focused satellite service to offer a full schedule of great HD programming for your HDTV set. In fact, VOOM delivers 39 HD channels, including 21 exclusive channels you can't see anywhere else. That's more than four times the HD programming of any other provider.

Yes but no price at all so how can you be sure that the price of equipment (and more importantly the service) will be lower?
Plus it doesn't matter just the number of channels in HD to me, what matter is the number of good channels.
What is the point of having 150+channels of which I watch only about 20 and the rest are just filling/commercials.
 

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