Anand does P4

[Dexion]

I completely understand what your saying PliotronX. However I find your facts partially invalid. Infact I believe thatthe Q3 benchmark is a timedemo, and would constantly change angle and motion for a period of time(anyone know exactly?) The results are the average framerate result of the entire demo, which means at times it goes beyond and under the number 191. Most bechmarks use high textures and intricate maps to stress both the CPU and Video Card. An average of 190 FPS is REALLY HIGH for a Q3benchmark, and I can assume that this number is a "consistent" number that would be beyond suitable for any Q3 player.



<< most monitors support 120hz >>


Problem is that, our eyes don't support it.



<< Professional gamers agree that in FPS games, *consistently* high framerates do matter. It's a heck of a lot easier to aim with a 100+ framerate than with a 60fps framerate. >>


I think a 1.2Ghz Athlon pumping out 170FPS is highly acceptable, don't you think?

 

[Dexion]

Why would Q3 players still use 640x480? Wouldn't distance be very limited at that resolution? Infact, 800x600 or 1024x768 is very playable resolutions. If you look at the benchmarks again, if your a player that wants to &quot;see&quot; your opponent easier from a farther distance, at 1024x768x32 there isn't even a need to have a P4.

 

[Budman]

Q3 is nice &amp; all but did you guys see how awfull it was at cracking rc5.:Q

That's one slow chip even at 1.5ghz.

 

[HigherGround]

just one a side note, as i'm reading through the revews on the web, i noticed that ( you might wanna sit down for this ... ) Sharky's review has a Table of Content

 

[Eli]

My K6-3/450 cracks almost as fast as a Pentium4 1.4GHz.


Bwahah...Bwahahahaha... Ahhhhhhhhhhahahahahaha.....


I feel better now..

 

[Priit]

Eli: hmm, 450Mhz K6(doesn't matter if it is 2, 2+, 3 or 3+) does about 0,8Mkeys/s max., P4@1,5Ghz crunches 1,98Mkeys/s (I belive that was the measure unit Anand used). Mhz vs. Mhz K6 wins (1,77Kkeys/Mhz VS. 1,32Kkeys/Mhz), but not CPU vs. CPU (450Mhz vs. 1,5Ghz). IMHO best RC-5 cracking CPU is Duron anyway...

 

[Thorn]

HigherGround, OMG!!! You're right! Sharky does have a ToC!!!

hehehe, seems our bitching (and low hit rates) my have made them reconsider not having one. Well, that's the first step. If they improve just a bit more in a few other areas I may even decide to put them back in my Favorites list.


My take on the P4? It performed better than I thought it would... but not as well as it needed to (by far). The Athlon/Duron platform is gaining followers and buyers in droves and actually outsells the P3/Celeron in retail B&amp;M stores by over 30% (in this area), and crushes it by about 60% in the &quot;mom and pop&quot; stores. there's no denying that the public is waking up from Intel's self-manufactured daydream and seeing the light for the first time.

If this is all Intel can come up with, then they are in serious trouble.

 

[Teatowel]

Anand wrote a couple of weeks ago:

Secondly, you've got to give me some credit here. What you're assuming is that the minute someone flashes a green bill in my face I'll immediately drop to my knees and become their whore.

Shame on all of you who doubted him!

Has the rest of the world slagged off the PIV as well? tomshardware was a lot more gentle

 

[Priit]

Teatowel: I agree that Anand is fair with Intel, but Tom isn't licking Intel's arse, either (like some do). There are some benchmarks in Tom's site which are important to me (like Linux kernel compilation) and Anand just doesn't use them. I think both Anand's and Tom's sites rocks

 

[Remedy]

This reminds me of the Cyrix PR feature rate. It says that its 1.5 but what is it really, like 1.1 or something? :Q

Q3 at 640x480 is starting to get stupid. Athlon's don't have sse optimizations but yet p4 has it and they say wait till more enhancements come for it? WTF Like the athlon has any enhancements coming for it in q3 anytime soon and it still manages to keep up. Poor intel if they keep up at this rate then their only low end competition might be VIA/Cyrix 1.2 smammy.

 

[RagingGuardian]

Whatever happened to the 3DNow optimisations that were supposed to be done for the Athlon?

The P4 will be the laughing stock of these forums for a very long time

 

[sandorski]

Raging: True! When I bought my first AMD cpu, it was a k6-2 300 and at the time there was a realworld program that showcased what 3dnow could do, Quake2. Since then, however, most apps have shown only a 10ish%(re: insignificant)benefit from SIMD type enhancements. SSE2 will never live up to the hype.

 

[Dulanic]

Read Toms article and you will see its NOT the P4 that makes Q3 shine.... its the memory bandwith.... wait for Crush and DDR...... theoritically thats 4 times the bandwith of standard SDRAM because DDR is theoretically twice as much bandwith and then Crush allows dual channel which doubles it again..... which in theory is higher than the P4 bandwith.... however I expect Crush and PC2100 DDR to be about equal to the P4 in memory bandwith.

 

[ModemMix]

dosnt look so apealing but id love to see some software benches from stuff that has sse2 support.

ModemMix

 

[chiwawa626]

eh, AMD ALL THE WAY!
SCREW P4

 

[RagingGuardian]

We all need to go spread the word that the P4 is garbage at this point in time.

I tried telling some idiots at CompUSA and they all said I was stupid because the P4 rawks!!!!! I'm still trying to figure how they got their jobs.

 

[pac1085]

What a peice of SH!T!!!

 

[NOX]

<< I'm still trying to figure how they got their jobs. >>

You need to be a certified idiot. :Q

 

[SykoFreak]

You need a PhD in Stupidity.

 

[Cretin]

&quot;Of all people, I'm am actually starting to feel sorry for Intel. . . well maybe not

Actually, the Q3A scores are pathetic. It's basically as fast as an Athlon DDR, clock for clock, even though SSE is supposed to own Quake3.

What really makes me sick is that no matter how much the P4 sucks, Intel will be fine. If you know NOTHING about computers, you KNOW what a Pentium is. And when you walk into CompUSA and talk to the dirty salseman who compares an Intel Pentium IV 1500 MHz to an AMD &quot;Athalon&quot; 1200 MHz, you go with the bigger number and the bigger name. With Intel's enormous capital base, there is simply NOTHING that AMD can ever do to catch up. No matter how many times AMD offers better value (and they have ever since the 486) Intel will always own the market due to the incredible amount of cash they can dump into brainwash-er-marketting. Isn't capitalism grand?

I think I'm going to puke.

Modus&quot;

I couldn't possibly agree more with your post, Modus. It's annoying how half the stores advertise the Athlon as an &quot;Athalon&quot;! WTF is wrong with those people? Did they ever mis-spell Pentium? No, I've never seen that happen. I've seen a &quot;Pentium-K6 333MHz&quot; though.

On the subject of framerates... You shouldn't say &quot;200fps is enough&quot; or any amount at that. First off, you shouldn't associate Hz with FPS, because you can simply disable VSYNC and then the FPS can go as high as it wants regardless of the refresh rate of your monitor.

And you shouldn't say that nobody can tell the difference once you get past a certain amount of frames per second, because that's false. I'm sure you could argue and say that &quot;the human eye&quot; can't see this or that, but I've also heard people say that human ears can't hear noise that TVs and dog whistles and stuff make, but that's false, tons of people can hear those things.. I can hear the sound TVs and monitors make, and I can notice flicker on a monitor past 85Hz (someone in here said that anything about 85Hz is useless? That's BS).

40fps is smooth. If you're walking in a straight line and don't need to move around or aim, that is. If you're a hardcore gamer, I'm pretty sure you'll agree with the statement &quot;40fps is laggy sh$t&quot;. That's because when you move around and are trying to aim, etc, and when stuff happens on the screen, the framerate drops considerably... If you can maintain a framerate ABOVE 60fps all the time and never go below, then there wouldn't be too much to complain about. But then again, I'm not much of a hardcore gamer, and I wouldn't find it hard to believe that some would not want their framerate to ever go below something like 80 or 100...

Oh yeah, the P4 sucks. Comparing to what's out now, there's no point in buying the P4. Perhaps in the future there will be, but for now it's pretty much a dud. Good move, Intel.

Cretin

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Well I wouldn't say it was a complete dud. The new architecture has to start somewhere. A shame it had to start in the middle of the performance bracket though.

The P3(Katmai) was a dud too, until the Coppermine came out. I look at the Willy P4 in the same light as I looked at the Katmai core, but then again the Katmai wasn't slower, clock for clock, then the Dechutes P2s *shrug*. The core definitely has some potential, and Northwood will probably start to show some of it.

*sigh* Poor Intel. Lord only knows they seem to take an initial step back with many of their new cores.

 

[SSP]

Constructing Mt. Everest: The Pentium 4?s Heatsink

LMAO.. Anand have a pretty good sense of humor.

 

[OneEng]

Modus,
You can't sell what you don't have. Although I agree with you that most uninformed buyers would gravitate toward the high Mhz big name machine, I don't think there are going to be that many of them to sell. Intel has only 1 plant making the chip, and the thing is more than 2 times the size of the PIII. Taking into account the exponential higher chance of contamination on the larger die, I think we are looking at 1/3rd the production capacity of PIII at any given plant, and there is only 1 plant currently making them to the best of my knowledge.

The P4 wasn't a total waste. The bandwidth of the SYSTEM was fantastic. Unfortunately, any time the PROCESSOR had to do any work, it fell on its face.

The P4 Integer benchmarks may be helped by DDR. Since the P4 has such a terrible penality for branch misprediction, the high latency of RAMBUS just adds insult to injury.

SSE2 is indeed a good idea, and I am looking forward to having a single SIMD instruction set. Isn't it nice that AMD brought this technology to the market and forced Intel to compete?

As pointed out, by the time SSE2 becomes well accepted, AMD will have incorporated it into the Hammer line of processors. This will not bode well for Intel. They are now faced with competition from AMD in the form of:

1. Better process technology (SOI copper is %20-30 lower capacitance at an equivelent process size).
2. Better processor design (It is nearly a foregone conclusion that the Hammer core will be superior to P4. It appears that the Mustang core will be sufficient to deal with it through next year)
3. Better chipset support (Mamba, current AMD760, along with nVidias solution)
4. Smaller die size
5. Price, Price, Price!

Although Intel has fabulous marketing, I don't know how they are going to deal with the technology onslaught by Motorola/Micron/AMD/nVidia. Seems that everyone is out to help AMD (execpt of course RAMBUS)

 

[fergiboy]

Peace out on the P4, Anand wasn't the only one to bash the P4 check out Tom's Hardware, he had an extensive bashing of the P4. I enjoy reading all Intel bashing articles

 

[Soccerman]

&quot;As pointed out, by the time SSE2 becomes well accepted, AMD will have incorporated it into the Hammer line of processors. This will not bode well for Intel. They are now faced with competition from AMD in the form of:


1.Better process technology (SOI copper is %20-30 lower capacitance at an equivelent process size).&quot;

actually, according to Anand's review, they'll be moving to copper when they go .13..

it appears AMD's processors won't quite reach the speed Intel's will this upcoming year (mhz wise).