ARM has announced ARM v9. Anandtech article below.
Arm Announces Armv9 Architecture: SVE2, Security, and the Next Decade (anandtech.com)
Arm Announces Armv9 Architecture: SVE2, Security, and the Next Decade (anandtech.com)
Given that Apple has already decided to go their own way with their AMX instructions, and could similarly add other instructions/functionality they wanted, I wonder if they have any reason to go ARMv9?
They released the first Apple Silicon before v9 was finalized, when if they planned on going to v9 as quickly as they went v8 waiting a few months to have that become the baselines for ARM Macs would have made a lot of sense. That seems to indicate Apple doesn't think v9 is that important, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an Apple SoC that implements v9.
If true, Apple's "ARM" could slowly diverge from what the rest of the market is using, at least until external forces forced them to re-base on v9. Microsoft releasing a version of Windows/ARM that requires v9 is the only external force big enough I can think of.
Lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. When i talk about the ecosystem, i am not talking about apps. I am talkin about frameworks like Node.JS (V8), Rust, .Net, Electron, OpenJDK, Golang, Docker ... the list is endless. As example the only reason M1 Macs have a beta version of OpenJDK is, that there were a Wíndows AArch64 port a year ago and that was heavily based on Linux Aarch64 version of OpenJDK. They wouldn't have Slack, Teams, Discord, VSCode, Spotify and many more without Electron and Node.JS and no chance to get this anytime soon. Docker - not without Golang. And even if you have Docker running - have fun finding Docker images which are anything else than ARM or x86.
Going with an Apple only ISA, they would loose all of the above immediately without any hope to recover from this situation.
Thats like Apple shooting themselfs in the foot. They benefit massively from the ARM ecosystem.
I don not think it is that niche, considering the amount of Mac users want to run an alternative OS (judging by the resonance in the relevant forums). So they better stay ISA compliant or they immediately lose the ability to run Windows (and Linux).
As others have pointed out, there is no reason for Apple to throw away the software ecosystem benefits of staying with "mainstream" ARM.
If Apple decides to stay on ARMv8.x in perpetuity, they will continue to benefit massively. ARMv8.x is a known entity that is already supported by the frameworks you mentioned in a later post. Given the amount of hardware Apple has brought online with their ARMv8 license, I fully expect Apple to be supported by said frameworks for years to come regardless of whether they adopt ARMv9 at some point in the future.
We're moving into the realm of the anecdotal here. But if you think of Boot Camp users as a percentage of technically-oriented Mac owners who are themselves a percentage of technically-oriented desktop users, you're looking at a percentage of a percentage of people that aren't necessarily a huge part of the overall computing market. Most of those people could be pushed on to VMs should WARM ever switch to ARMv9.
They don't need to. But there are plenty of reasons not to deal with nVidia.
I am not talking about Boot Camp user, but users, which require an alternative OS including those using VMs - i never used Bootcamp on my Mac but surely i am using VMs. It is also not sufficient to reduce the question to numbers of people leaving the platform. Macs are currently very popular among developers - mainly because you can develop and test application for all major platforms (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android (via Windows)). Of course you can argue, that developers are just an extremely small fraction of all Mac Users. But if developers leaving your platform, you are going to have issues, independent of how small the population of developers are relative to the population of all users.
And its not just developers, its something called "vocal minority". Its the users very active on the forums, youtube, social networks etc. which have a major impact on how your platform develops by just giving their opinion. Among these people, the ability to run an alternative OS is a very important question.
Not sure what you mean. If both companies have common interests they will deal with each other. Its not like AMD not dealing with Intel because they are competitors - they surely do have common interests.
An ARMv8.6 M2 (or what have you) in the future ought to be able to run WARM in a VM even if WARM begins requiring ARMv9 hardware. There will be virtualization performance penalties, but it will work.
I am not talking about Boot Camp user, but users, which require an alternative OS including those using VMs - i never used Bootcamp on my Mac but surely i am using VMs. It is also not sufficient to reduce the question to numbers of people leaving the platform. Macs are currently very popular among developers - mainly because you can develop and test application for all major platforms (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android (via Windows)). Of course you can argue, that developers are just an extremely small fraction of all Mac Users. But if developers leaving your platform, you are going to have issues, independent of how small the population of developers are relative to the population of all users.
And its not just developers, its something called "vocal minority". Its the users very active on the forums, youtube, social networks etc. which have a major impact on how your platform develops by just giving their opinion. Among these people, the ability to run an alternative OS is a very important question.
Typically speaking it isn't MS being supportive that is the problem.Windows on ARM has such a low userbase that it's a non factor. If MS goes hard on ARM (and Apple doesn't completely abandon it) I think MS will bend over backwards in supporting Macs given the userbase.
Windows on ARM has such a low userbase that it's a non factor. If MS goes hard on ARM (and Apple doesn't completely abandon it) I think MS will bend over backwards in supporting Macs given the userbase.
The number of big name developers (ala Adobe, Autodesk etc) branching their codebases for ARM Mac should eventually make Windows on ARM more viable regardless of it running on ARM Mac, Snapdragon, Samsung, nVidia or some custom MS SoC solution.
Not sure why you tend to have issues with grasping an argument. The argument was about MAC users who want to run Windows Applications
But there is so little of a user base of ARM Windows that nobody is going to want to run Windows ARM applications on a Mac since they would have way more software available natively in OSX. x86, possibly, but Apple theoretically forking ARM wouldn't really impact that.
QFTSo Mac user do not want to run Windows applications because the user-base is possibly small? Does not make sense at all.
And then of course, Windows ARM does support ARM32, ARM64, x86 and x64 Windows applications (and all ARM64 Linux applications via WSL2) - if the application a Mac user wants to run is available for ARM64 - thats just icing on the cake - otherwise he just runs the x86 or x64 version.
MS shot themself in the foot providing the SW base for apple while having worse performing product (surface)
From what I read of the Morello blurb it does not sound as if it is specific in any way to any ISA despite ARM leading the project in its UK backyard.The introduction of CHERI, a proven architecture, into Armv9 in mid-decade must challenge X86 further. Both Microsoft and Google are involved in Morello, maybe because they see a limited future for X86.
I'd be surprised if AWS Outposts is at all aimed at the same people.In effect, this looks like HEDT computing in a single, reduced size 1U slot at a client's premises. This must be a direct challenge to Apple's development of M2, M3 etc. processor applications. It also challenges X86.
Not sure, why you even comparing a 7W SoC (8CX) with a 15W SoC (M1). Of course the former one is supposed to have less performance. The problem is really people are comparing Apples with Oranges (no pun intended). And this is even ignoring the fact that M1 is 2 years younger and on a more advanced process node.
What the 8CX devices are achieving with only 7W is not much less spectacular than what the M1 is achieving at 15W. You might want to take other 7W SoCs like Lakefield as reference to see what i mean.
ps. This is unless you are referring to another Surface Product like the Surface Pro 7 - here i could somewhat agree to you, as they are also 15W devices but getting destroyed by the M1.
Not sure, why you even comparing a 7W SoC (8CX) with a 15W SoC (M1). Of course the former one is supposed to have less performance. The problem is really people are comparing Apples with Oranges (no pun intended). And this is even ignoring the fact that M1 is 2 years younger and on a more advanced process node.
Nothing.about that ARM v9, I wonder what will happen now with the approach of chip designers when Nvidia bought it...
More like Google and Apple invested in ARM with Android and iOS.but Apple gained a lot for free and I am saying that as M1 macbook air owner, if MS didn't invest in the ARM ecosystem that M1 would be a plaything except for the core apple user base
I didn't comment devices/hardware, but hardware+whole ecosystem
MS invests a lot into ARM+windows (x86 migration) ecosystem
IMO MS is working in behind on a chip for its cloud servers and laptops, maybe even mobile restart
but Apple gained a lot for free and I am saying that as M1 macbook air owner, if MS didn't invest in the ARM ecosystem that M1 would be a plaything except for the core apple user base
So for free Apple gained a lot and released a very fast laptop- we can be soon in the position as with x86 macbooks, one computer everything covered
that is a big win
about that ARM v9, I wonder what will happen now with the approach of chip designers when Nvidia bought it...
Correct, 8cx is not a new or current product. It'll be interesting to see exactly how Qualcomm updates it since they have both X1 and A78 cores in the Snapdragon 888. They need to avoid that crappy Samsung node though.