An open letter to TA ECCp-109 and Team AnandTech

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daweasel

Senior member
May 29, 2001
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this comment really is interesting because this almost NEVER happened before SETI became popular.

While I'm in rant mode, since when did it become okay to recruit members away from the project they're currently running for Team Anandtech? I've been here a long time (before any DC teams or even projects existed) and I've always followed the unwritten rule that you don't recruit members away from another project or another team. Maybe I'm just "old school" but I think it's wrong and should stop.

this comment really is interesting This happened way too much when I was around. I think TA SETI invented that way of recruiting(stealing from other teams). Also, notice how SETI will always get top billing in everything. Recruiting threads, favortism by the mods (as seen by elite members, etc). Plus it really is a known fact that SETI currently has too much power.( I'm talking about project wize, not within TA)

Most of the other powerful DC Team sites promote their teams more and the benefits are obvious. Hopefully we will have similar support someday but I'm not holding my breath

Yeah, keep dreaming about this. If you ask for help, I'm sure they can hide the TA link even more.


 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
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Originally posted by: daweaselthis comment really is interesting This happened way too much when I was around. I think TA SETI invented that way of recruiting(stealing from other teams). Also, notice how SETI will always get top billing in everything. Recruiting threads, favortism by the mods (as seen by elite members, etc). Plus it really is a known fact that SETI currently has too much power.( I'm talking about project wize, not within TA)
WHAT? You've gotta be kidding me. When is the last time any TA SETI member asked you or anyone else to drop ECCp and switch to the SETI Project? Provide a link to back up that statement. I'll wait...

SETI gets top billing because it has most *active* members. I'm getting sick of hearing complaints from the Anti-SETI members. I and many others put a lot of effort into the SETI project. I'm talking about an offsite forum, numerous offsite TA SETI pages, daily stats threads, daily member congrats and race threads, etc. Do you think that might be a reason many people enjoy doing the SETI project over other choices?


Originally posted by: daweaselYeah, keep dreaming about this. If you ask for help, I'm sure they can hide the TA link even more.
Well, if we don't ask it's not going to happen. I know for a fact that the SETI team has requested more support for the DC projects. That is one of the things being discussed in the offsite forum.
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
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FWIW, I've found that Robor and I think very much alike. :Q :)

The machines that I'll soon be turning loose on the ECCp project are all machines that are not currently crunching anything else - I'm not switching anything from one project to feed another.

As for the viability of other projects and SETI, consider this: Yes, you're going to find friends and businesses opposed to running the SETI client - this is the perfect opportunity to introduce another project. Just yesterday my boss gave me permission to run the F@H client on a spare machine(p3-800) at work once I explained what the project does. This was a complete surprise, since he currently won't allow SETI on any of the regular workstations.
rolleye.gif


Crazee summed it up best:

Respond to threads about your project. Once people join you have to keep them involved and interested.
Start threads with good information about what is going on in your project.
Keep your thread positive in regards to other projects or don't mention them at all.
Think of activities that generate interest and get them started. Races, etc.


Admittedly, I'm not a cheerleader type of person(don't look very good in a skirt either) :confused: but I do post in the "congratulatory" threads and try to keep up a good spirit. :)

 

Jagators

Senior member
Jan 6, 2000
343
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CRAZEE,

I see so many people in this thread saying well I don't post much or I don't say much. What do you expect then??? If you don't participate and you don't make your project look somewhat interesting then no one else is going to find it interesting either.


To be quite honest with you Sir, I don't really care if anything is posted about ECCp. I was only answering MM question... Why are all the post about ECCp started by MM...
 

Crazee

Elite Member
Nov 20, 2001
5,736
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Jagators,

I wasn't really directing that at you since you made it clear in your post that you didn't have a problem with the level of activity. It is directed more at people who don't post much but wonder why their project doesn't do better.

I am sorry if there was any confusion :)
 

Baldy18

Diamond Member
Oct 30, 2000
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Recruiting for all projects needs to come from outside this forum. Any recruiting inside this forum doesn't grow the TeAm but simply suffles people around from project to project. Since when were all projects different teams? I thought we were all members of the TeAm regurdless of what project we run.:(

I remember when someone would be encouraged to put their P4 on SETI and their Macintoch or Athlon on RC5 because those processors were best suited for those projects. Now each project is too selfish and everyone thinks thier project is more important than all the other. This is destroying the overall TeAm spirit and deviding us up into groups. We are starting to look like Junior High School kids with all their cliques and narrow mindedness.

LET'S BRING THE TEAM BACK TOGETHER!
 

RaySun2Be

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
16,565
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Originally posted by: Baldy18
Recruiting for all projects needs to come from outside this forum. Any recruiting inside this forum doesn't grow the TeAm but simply suffles people around from project to project. Since when were all projects different teams? I thought we were all members of the TeAm regurdless of what project we run.:(

I remember when someone would be encouraged to put their P4 on SETI and their Macintoch or Athlon on RC5 because those processors were best suited for those projects. Now each project is too selfish and everyone thinks thier project is more important than all the other. This is destroying the overall TeAm spirit and deviding us up into groups. We are starting to look like Junior High School kids with all their cliques and narrow mindedness.

LET'S BRING THE TEAM BACK TOGETHER!

Well said Baldy. :D
 

joinT

Lifer
Jan 19, 2001
11,172
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Originally posted by: Robor
Recruiting, races with other teams, or how about a CPU swap? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't P4's suck at ECCp? Why not have ECCp members running P4's offer to run another project where they're better performers in exchange for a CPU that's good at ECCp?

That's an excellent idea. I haven't seen that in a long time. I think I'll do that.

 

joinT

Lifer
Jan 19, 2001
11,172
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ok, I've got the ECCp-109 client running on my jukebox for now. The GUI is a little buggy (dunno if it's XP or what) but it seems to be working OK. That's a C900 in the jukebox. ASAP I'm getting a TUSI-M mobo for my DVD-TVR box & it will get ECCp-109 installed as well.
ATM, I'm leaving UD client on my P4 workstation, because apparently P4's suck at ECCp-109 (it's not just ECCp, apparently they pretty much suck at UD as well, a Tbird 1.4 rocks my P4 1.8 :(:(:()

Where do P4's excel in DC? Once I find that out, I'll trade someone my P4's work for them to run ECCp-109 on 1.8Ghz worth of boxen.
 

MereMortal

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2000
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I've had a chance to read through the responses and will now make some clarifications and rebuttals.

First, on the issue of whether or not I know how this post looks. The answer is yes. Does it appear childish? I hope so, because that was the intent. I've tried conventional methods of presenting my ideas, but it was sheer luck if they were even noticed, much less responded too. More people are taking notice now, no? They might not like what they see, but they are paying attention.

Was it a good idea? That remains to be seen. Not all ideas are good ones. But the simple fact of the matter is that it was an idea to help a team that's been decaying for months, and someone took the initiative to see it through. Get the point?

It seems that people are quick to go into defensive mode. It is an individual's right to be as active in any project as they choose to be. But that, of course, is applicable in all directions. My interests have diversified, and I have other aspects of my life that put great demands on my time. I need to choose where I spend that time, and choose wisely. I have no problem providing stats or info or other means of participation to a team that participates back. But as I see it, if the majority of the team is ambivalent as to its condition and ambivalent to its ranking, then what does it need stats for? Such a team should have no problem if I was to become just another one of the ambivalent masses. Furthermore, such a team should have no problem with me stopping production altogether. Are you a bad team member if you are ambivalent? No. But I can no longer afford to give you the same amount of time as I have in the past.

I added non-ECCp TA members in my salutation as a courtesy and to invite everyone to respond. First and foremost I would hope that the ECCp team would help itself. It was not the intent for people in other projects to drop what they were doing and start running ECCp. This thread topic may be brazen, but it is not that brazen. I don't think it is a good idea to cross-recruit. It does pop up every once in a while in all projects, mainly from newer DC participants who don't know any better. These instances should be handled with polite discouragement. It is an unwritten rule that we don't cross-recruit; but the thing about unwritten rules is, that if you are new and nobody tells you about them, you have no way of knowing until you break one of them.

Also, I thought my first post was vile enough. I didn't think it would be topped by inter-project bickering. Those of you with project oppression complexes and those with project paranoia complexes need to sit down and work out your issues. This thread is probably not the best place to do that.

Finally, you may be asking yourself who do I think I am that I can make demands on anybody? Well, I am nobody. And I demand nothing of anyone. I just serve notice that my participation will stop if certain criteria occur. I made that notice public in case anyone felt the desire to take some initiative. I could just have easily waited until we fell to 6th place and said "Seeya!"

I make no apologies. My services are mine to give as I see fit, and I have given them freely and without constraint. I just chose a melodramatic way to say that if the ECCp team wants to grow, it is going to have to be through efforts beyond my own. I will continue to do as I have done in the past, until that day arrives that we fall, should it happen at all.
 

PeterN

Golden Member
Nov 19, 1999
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I won't comment on the subject brought up by MM. Enough said there. :D

What I can tell, processor swaps can really benefit the team in whole.

Recently, I and Engineer swapped some procs. It went as follows:

1) I had 3 P-4's (2*1.6 and 2 GHz)running ECCp. Engineer had a dual AMD (1.6GHz) running Seti.
2) I messaged Engineer if he was interested in a swap.
3) He agreed :D
4) Result A: 3 P-4's running Seti, doing average of 15-17 WU's p/d (as to the Dually doing ~10-11 p/d)
5) Result B: 1 Dually running ECCp, doing average of 310-320 WU's p/d (as to the 3 P-4's doing ~130 p/d)

This example gives an idea of how much can be gained, if some more processors are targeted to the most suitable project.

On a side note: My PIII-556 is still running ECCp, as is a P200-MMX. :p
 

Baldy18

Diamond Member
Oct 30, 2000
5,038
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Originally posted by: gogeeta13edited due to post being removed

Valid points, you won't see any flaming from me. Everyone enjoys different projects and the key is to find the projects that you enjoy and do them with out bashing others for what they enjoy. You have expressed your personal reasons for not running SETI and I respect that.
 

PeterN

Golden Member
Nov 19, 1999
1,228
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Originally posted by: MereMortal

those with project oppression complexes and those with project paranoia complexes

What if you have both? :p :D

:cool:

Heya Gogeeta,

Please come back. I've even got Engineer doing ECCp. If that isn't a major wonder. :D :p
 

gogeeta13

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
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I still have a bunch of assims doing ECCp, but I worked my ass off for months getting TAF production up, but day after day more people left for SETI, and I barely go to DC forums anymore cause all i see on the forums list is seti thread, seti thread, etc and I am sick of it. I am doing RC5 now, and I am seeing it till the end. It was my first project, and I am kinda partial to it.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
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Originally posted by: gogeeta13
I still have a bunch of assims doing ECCp, but I worked my ass off for months getting TAF production up, but day after day more people left for SETI, and I barely go to DC forums anymore cause all i see on the forums list is seti thread, seti thread, etc and I am sick of it. I am doing RC5 now, and I am seeing it till the end. It was my first project, and I am kinda partial to it.
I can understand your point but what about 3 years ago when the rc5 team was over 3x teh size of the SETI team and there were 5x as many rc5 posts as SETI posts? You may not remember those days but I do. Back then the TA rc5 team was #1 and the SETI team was 30-something.

Many people think it's pointless to look for ET intelligence because even if we find it we're not going to be able to do much with it. Maybe true, but if nothing else it would answer the question, "are we alone?". Also, those same critics either don't know or fail to mention that the SETI project does more for science than just scan for ET signals. You've stated that you don't like SETI and that's your choice. I guess you have your reasons but I don't know them since your post was edited before I could read it. Well, I don't like rc5. I don't like how Dnet did nothing but hide behind their installation rules when the state of GA went after David and if you remember many TA rc5 participants quit the project as a result. I also think that with enough time and CPU power it's a given that the key will be found and even if the key is found tomorrow what will it change? I doubt it would make news like finding an ET intelligence signal.

Anyway, this thread is branching off it's initial direction and I've got better things to do than argue.
 

gogeeta13

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
5,721
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1. I do RC5 because It is easy, doesnt suck up memory or i/o bus, and I like it because it was my first project and got me into DC. That, and I can get soooo many assims in RC5 because it is soo easy.

2. we are alone. we will be alone for many centuries until light travel is possible. there will be nobody else but us for generations and generations, that is assuming that we could even develope light travel, and then go out and find another planet that had everything go right for it like ours? I remember watching a documentary saying that the number of things that have to go right for a planet to develope like ours are in the hundreds of billions. But I am not going to continue backing up my reasons, because all it is going to do is piss you off and you are about to give me a moral lecture.

3. After Dnet, I will go back to ECCp, then probably move to a useful project like folding or UD..

Ugh.

/me zips on a flame suit; It's gonna be a long night.
 

Crazee

Elite Member
Nov 20, 2001
5,736
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I'm not going to flame you, however I am going to point out that Seti@Home is not just about finding ET. And besides your declaration that we are alone is your opinion. You are certainly entitled to it, however I am entitled to mine :)

Seti@Home and Pulsar Research
Seti@Home and Black Hole Research
Seti@home and hydrogen distribution in the galaxy

It might help if you understood the project better. The project is not trying to find ET directly through our analysis of the Work Units. They are trying to find the most likely candidates for the telescope in Arecibo to examine for longer periods of time to see if there are Alien signals or not.

Persistency Checking of Gaussians
Taking stock of most promising signals
Explanation of Signal Candidates
Best Signal Candidates Thus Far
The signal candidate scoring system
Sorting Gaussians


Seti was recently awarded the Computerworld award for most innovative uses of technology in the science field. Link
Case Study
Here is a lists of the finalists that were in same category (pretty impressive company to keep) Link

So now let me apologize to MM for getting this thread even further off topic. The is the last bit of posting I will do in it.
 

gogeeta13

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
5,721
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It might help if you understood the project better. The project is not trying to find ET directly through our analysis of the Work Units. They are trying to find the most likely candidates for the telescope in Arecibo to examine for longer periods of time to see if there are Alien signals or not.

.


LOL, but there is no life, there are no alien signals. Nobody is out there.

But, as I like rc5, i completely understand doing it for stats end of it, and the fun of it. As for finding aliens or their signals, their are none. Nada
:D
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
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LOL, but there is no life, there are no alien signals. Nobody is out there.

Based on that comment, some might even suspect there's a sore lack of intelligent life on this planet. ;)

 

gogeeta13

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
5,721
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We all have our opinions, and while I base mine on facts, I fully support people who do their projects for the fun of it and stats and all, but I just don't agree on life being out there.

I see I am bringing out lots of dark sides from people, :disgust:....


EDit: I am sorry MM, I have been screwing up your thread. If anybody would like to flame me and continue this, PM me, I would be glad to discuss.

NWM: :disgust: ---> ;) hahaha