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An interesting take why the Auto Makers haven't moved to Electric Cars

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There was an experiment with ecars here in SF and the outcome was that the local utility company didn't have the infrastructure to service/charge a large mass of rechargable batteries. They claim brownouts and blackouts would occur if as little as 6 ecars per city block were plugged into the grid for overnight charging. The chargers they were complaining about were 220volt devices and required commerical installation. But the 220 volt device is a minimum requirement per ecar manufactures. So the whole thing fadded away.
 


<< There was an experiment with ecars here in SF and the outcome was that the local utility company didn't have the infrastructure to service/charge a large mass of rechargable batteries. They claim brownouts and blackouts would occur if as little as 6 ecars per city block were plugged into the grid for overnight charging. The chargers they were complaining about were 220volt devices and required commerical installation. But the 220 volt device is a minimum requirement per ecar manufactures. So the whole thing fadded away. >>



Bingo! Also, if power plants are built just to produce extra energy to charge electric vehicles, the pollution from these power plants will make the AQ far worse than it is with internal combustion engines. Of course, this could be alleviated with the building of all nuclear power plants, but that will never fly.

Cheers!
 
Hey tex! Thats a good read ... that could explain alot why they havent done the switch from gas to battery. I sure wish they do tho, were F*cking up the oZone layer from all the Sh*t thats comes out of our cars LOL. Acually I dont give a Sh*t about the ozone, I WANT A RECHARGABLE CAR THAT CAN DO 0-60 in 4secs!!! lol

SSXeon
 


<< Texmaster: Whose your big Detroit connection? A lunatic janitor, perhaps?

Let's assume that Texmaster's black helicopter theory about an evil Detroit mafia is true (though, if it was true, you'd figure that all the bosses at Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, etc. would be dead by now, but we won't explore that little inconsistency). If it was so simple to make even a remotely feasible, desirable electric car, then someone half-way across the world would have made one already, and made billions of dollars off it. >>



One of the Project Managers in the new Technologies department at General Motors Pee-Brain. LOL Care to look more stupid? Keep talking.



<< Electric car technology is limited by chemistry. You can only get X amount of energy from a chemical reaction. The GM EV1 has a range of 130 miles. There are electric cars that were made 100 years ago, which have a range of 90 miles. The technology is a dead end, pure and simple. Lithium batteries are no big secret. I have a lithium battery in my cell phone. Lithium is one of the most abundant elements in the Earth's crust (also not a secret) - any freshman chemistry student can tell you that. But even Lithium batteries can't provide enough juice to power cars that you would actually want to drive. >>



Just because you you watched Beakman's World a few years back doesn't make you an expert in anything but having a Masters Degree in the field of Stupidity.



<< The oil industry puts no pressure on the car industry. The car industry puts no pressure on the oil industry. >>



LOL!!!!! Now I know you are a moron.



<< If there were, I'd see conspicuous redneck Texans all over the place in South-East Michigan, liasons to the Big 3 (which - BTW - I don't). There is no conspiracy to make big SUVs. They make big SUVs because that's what people like to buy. When they start making European style, 1 Liter minicars, the divisions are usually sent into bankruptcy pretty quickly. All of you like to come here and b|tch about gas guzzling cars, and their supposed effects on oil prices. How many of you actually own GEO Metros?

GM has invested more in electric car technologies than everyone else combined. Their $1 billion EV1 project was an absolute failure. The car barely sold any units.

If you jack@sses cared so much about electric cars, why didn't you buy one at that point? There is no conspiracy, fools. Please do think, before you make uneducated comments. >>




Uneductated? You have yet to provide a Single Shred of proof to back up a word you say.

Do yourself a favor, next time you are heating up your pop tarts, stay away from the Microwave.
 


<<

<<

<< 3 cars full of lead-acid batteries huh? So it would have a range of maybe 200 miles then? Still unacceptable. Range needs to be at least 300 miles and I'm not about to wait 4-5 hours at every stop to "refuel" an electric. Hydrogen fuel cells need to get a little better, then electric technology will take off.

ZV >>



Actually the report was 300-400 miles but I agree with you. Its a long way from becoming a standard vehicle. if you can't "recharge" anywhere but home. >>



Hey nice story above there Texmaster. As far as re-charging goes there is "free" re-charging units in downtown SanLuisObispo Ca.

It's totally believeable Li lasts 3X as long since your laptops today (which also use Li) last 3x as long as thier NiCd predecessors. Remember the early fires though? Li is extremly flamable when it contacts water!!! That's the real crux. Waters everywhere (your from Texas HUMIDITY) and the car/ oil companies have a very good lobby to "protect public safty". >>



From what I understand the batteries would be incased in a 4 inch material resembling a square to prevent exactly that.

And I wouldn't call Gasoline a safe fuel either.
 


<<

<< 3 cars full of lead-acid batteries huh? So it would have a range of maybe 200 miles then? Still unacceptable. Range needs to be at least 300 miles and I'm not about to wait 4-5 hours at every stop to "refuel" an electric. Hydrogen fuel cells need to get a little better, then electric technology will take off.

ZV >>



Actually the report was 300-400 miles but I agree with you. Its a long way from becoming a standard vehicle. if you can't "recharge" anywhere but home. >>



If the car just had one battery the same size as a TV then they would probably be able to simply change it with a fresh one in the filling station and put the old one on to recharge. Wouldn't take more than a couple of minutes if they had a machine that could do it all.

If there was an electric car that could manage 3-400 miles on one charge and have reasonable performance I would get one straight away.
Of course I would have to make an engine noise CD so it would sound right 😉
 
Texmaster: LOL! You're saying I look stupid? Whose the one getting his facts off alt.conspiracy-theories? Why don't you post some genuine links to any *one* of the bullsh|t claims that you've made?



<< Just because you you watched Beakman's World a few years back doesn't make you an expert in anything but having a Masters Degree in the field of Stupidity. >>



Beakman's world is pretty entertaining. Right now, though, I'm a chemistry major at an Ivy League school 🙂



<< << The oil industry puts no pressure on the car industry. The car industry puts no pressure on the oil industry. >>



LOL!!!!! Now I know you are a moron. >>



Prove it. Where's the oil industry-car industry connection? Insinuations won't do. You raised the issue, the burden of proof lies on you.



<< One of the Project Managers in the new Technologies department at General Motors Pee-Brain. >>



Did it ever occur to you that anyone who was privy to the largest corporate conspiracy in all history probably wouldn't go around telling people about it? Then again, maybe he met some crazy, yet computer-literate redneck down in Texas, and thought he'd have some fun with him 😉



<< Uneductated? You have yet to provide a Single Shred of proof to back up a word you say. >>



You think the billion dollar GM EV1 is a fantasy? Here's the link. Here's another one. Read it and weep.

All you need to read though, is the last line: "Henry Ford didn't need government welfare to sell people on the Model T. It sold because it worked. Until they work, electric cars won't sell ? and all the mandates and subsidies in the world won't change that fact."
 


<< Texmaster: LOL! You're saying I look stupid? Whose the one getting his facts off alt.conspiracy-theories? Why don't you post some genuine links to any *one* of the bullsh|t claims that you've made? >>



#1 Yes I say you look very stupid
#2 Its not my theory. Its testimony from someone who does this for a LIVING. Not some arm chair quarterback such as yourself.



<< Beakman's world is pretty entertaining. Right now, though, I'm a chemistry major at an Ivy League school 🙂 >>



Get your money back.



<< Prove it. Where's the oil industry-car industry connection? Insinuations won't do. You raised the issue, the burden of proof lies on you. >>



Oil is involved in everything from headlights, to engine lubrication, to body parts for cars. That kind of partnership is of course going to spawn a realtionship. I shouldn't have to explain the simple logic of this to an Ivy League man. How about the fuel efficiency in today's SUVs. Why after 20 years has fuel efficiency Not risen and in fact has gone down especially in SUVs? Are you saying the auto industry is too stupid to come up with a fuel efficient car or is the oil industry seeing a Tremendous profit from SUVs that get poor gas milage allowing consumers to use more and more fuel.

Now what can you point to that show NO relation between the two?



<< Did it ever occur to you that anyone who was privy to the largest corporate conspiracy in all history probably wouldn't go around telling people about it? Then again, maybe he met some crazy, yet computer-literate redneck down in Texas, and thought he'd have some fun with him 😉 >>



LOL!!! The conspiracy theory for many us has been a relationship between the oil and auto industry keeping the electric car back. I've already said this once but apparently you were too stupid to even read it. that does NOT mean there is No relationship between 2 industries that depend on each other for their very livelyhood.

The sad thing is your igonorance on the subject is blinding you.



<< You think the billion dollar GM EV1 is a fantasy? Here's the link. Here's another one. Read it and weep. >>



Show me where I said that. Show one place where I said ANY electrical car is a fantasy you ignorant fool. What I did was share a conversation I had with someone in the industry as to why it has taken so long to adapt to electric cars to mass production. NO WHERE did I EVER say, there were no electric cars you sorry excuse for a debater.

You need to read more carefully before making a complete ASS out of yourself next time.
 


<< << You think the billion dollar GM EV1 is a fantasy? Here's the link. Here's another one. Read it and weep. >>



Show me where I said that. Show one place where I said ANY electrical car is a fantasy you ignorant fool. >>



I think he was probably responding to this statement made by you...

<< You have yet to provide a Single Shred of proof to back up a word you say. >>



 


<<

<< << You think the billion dollar GM EV1 is a fantasy? Here's the link. Here's another one. Read it and weep. >>



Show me where I said that. Show one place where I said ANY electrical car is a fantasy you ignorant fool. >>



I think he was probably responding to this statement made by you...

<< You have yet to provide a Single Shred of proof to back up a word you say. >>

 >>



Actually what he did was make a claim of something I said :You think the billion dollar GM EV1 is a fantasy?

Which of course I never said. I was also addressing his overall theory of the oil and auto industry and his limited knowledge of electric automobiles.
 
It's too bad, cause electric motors can have full horsepower at any RPM, so they don't need gears and can kick the crap out of any equivalent horsepower gas motor. Take a 200 hp gas, and 200hp electric, and the electric will win off the line and in the long run. The electric will have 200hp there no matter what RPM, while the gas engine will only have 200 at a certain RPM. Since torque is HP * 5252 / RPM, that gives the following:

500 RPM - 200 hp - 2101 ft.lbs
1000 RPM - 200 hp - 1050 ft.lbs
2000 RPM - 200 hp - 525 ft. lbs
4000 RPM - 200 hp - 263 ft. lbs

While a gas with 200hp might look like the following:

500 RPM - 10 hp - 105 ft. lbs
1000 RPM - 40 hp - 210 ft. lbs
2000 RPM - 100 hp - 263 ft. lbs
4000 RPM - 200 hp - 263 ft. lbs

The gas has a much flatter torque curve which means the acceleration will be more the same rate but that's only cause you have much less power at those RPM ranges, so the electric is much faster 🙂
With 1:1 gearing, you could go pretty fast before you hit the RPM limiter, too (which must be pretty high for electrics).
 
Actually the report was 300-400 miles but I agree with you. Its a long way from becoming a standard vehicle. if you can't "recharge" anywhere but home.

which is fine with me. i rarely drive more than 100 miles a week
 
Well Tex had it exactly right on my beliefs on the BIG 3's lack of interest in electric and electric/hybrids...pressure from oil companies! I thought like a lot of you that this was the largest contributing factor so this post was definitely eye opening and makes a world of sense!

I'd hate to see hundreds of thousands of American jobs lost to China...probably the biggest producers of electric motors in the world.

Electric hybrids are just plain cool though...I saw a Honda Insight on the highway easily doing 80 MPH, on the license
plate said..."70MPG"!!!!

I guess you have to live with the looks since I'm sure you need a heck of a low drag coefficient
to produce 80-90 mph out of a 1 liter engine that's hauling as well as charging heavy batteries at the same time.

 


<< Well Tex had it exactly right on my beliefs on the BIG 3's lack of interest in electric and electric/hybrids...pressure from oil companies! I thought like a lot of you that this was the largest contributing factor so this post was definitely eye opening and makes a world of sense!

I'd hate to see hundreds of thousands of American jobs lost to China...probably the biggest producers of electric motors in the world.

Electric hybrids are just plain cool though...I saw a Honda Insight on the highway easily doing 80 MPH, on the license
plate said..."70MPG"!!!!

I guess you have to live with the looks since I'm sure you need a heck of a low drag coefficient
to produce 80-90 mph out of a 1 liter engine that's hauling as well as charging heavy batteries at the same time. >>




Good points. But of course the oil/auto industry is an intertwined one even if it may not be the primary reason elecrtic cars have not been massproduced and/or researched by the big three, it is still a large factor, espeically when you look at the mpg of cars today and cars of 20 years ago.
 
Right now, though, I'm a chemistry major at an Ivy League school
Lithium is one of the most abundant elements in the Earth's crust (also not a secret) -

Aparently the ivy league gives A's for ANY answer right or wrong, John Stossel from 20/20 is not such an idiot after all.
17000/1000000000=.00017 %
 


<< Uneductated? You have yet to provide a Single Shred of proof to back up a word you say. >>


Tex, you always say this.
But turn, apply that to yourself, and I ask where your proof is.

 


<< Actually the report was 300-400 miles but I agree with you. Its a long way from becoming a standard vehicle. if you can't "recharge" anywhere but home.

which is fine with me. i rarely drive more than 100 miles a week >>

That's great, but for a lot of people, electrics are just not practical. I drive over 300 miles in an average week and 3-4 times a year I put 500 to 1000 miles on my car in a single day of driving. 80-90% of the time a car with a 300 mile range on a tank of gas would be fine, but it would be terribly inconvenient that last 10-20% of the time.

ZV
 
Probably the most interesting alternative engine for a car was flywheels. It had 8 flywheels that used magnetics to make sure they never actually and slowed down from friction, they used the spinning flywheels to create electricity without physically cranking a generator. Somehow this combination produces over 500 hp, will go over 200 miles on a charge and will charge up in 20 minutes off a 240 volt plug.
 


<< Well Tex had it exactly right on my beliefs on the BIG 3's lack of interest in electric and electric/hybrids...pressure from oil companies! I thought like a lot of you that this was the largest contributing factor so this post was definitely eye opening and makes a world of sense! >>

I have heard this theory about Oil/Big 3 many times.
I am certainly not prepared to deny that such a connection exists, but I have as yet to hear any evidence (not proof!) that it does.

Anyone?
 
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