An Interesting Read From A Muslim Woman That Wants Reform In Islam

[Jimbo]

I think this is useful information for those on the Right, Left and undecided.

Disaffected Muslim

 

[SViscusi]

It's a nice idea, but reform and religion are like oil and water. The only way for any type of belief structure to evolve (for good or bad) is a charismatic leader who can convince a significant portion of people that his ideas are better than the previous guys. And even then you need people open to change.

 

[Nitemare]

Maybe if they would take all those references out of the Qur'an which say that a woman should be covered from head to toe, caned on whims, and raped(only counts as rape if it is witnessed by a certain number of men...preferably not the ones holding her down) and then beheaded....

How strange...I can not find those references in my copy of the Qur'an. It only says something about no drinking, no eating pork, no gambling, praying 5 times a day, and making a visit to Mecca sometime in my life if I am able.....

Can anyone help me find these passages that mention the mullah muslim that is commonly practiced in these third world countries?

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Maybe if they would take all those references out of the Qur'an which say that a woman should be covered from head to toe, caned on whims, and raped(only counts as rape if it is witnessed by a certain number of men...preferably not the ones holding her down) and then beheaded....

How strange...I can not find those references in my copy of the Qur'an. It only says something about no drinking, no eating pork, no gambling, praying 5 times a day, and making a visit to Mecca sometime in my life if I am able.....

Can anyone help me find these passages that mention the mullah muslim that is commonly practiced in these third world countries?

It's easy to convinve people to do something when they are ignorant. Religion is a powerful tool and a very dangerous one in the wrong hands. No where in the Koran does it say a lot of the things the radical mullahs claim to be the duties of a good Muslim. But if you grow up in a slum or a village and cannot read or write, and if I told you to do any of the things you mentioned, you would be a lot easier to convince than someone who is educated. We often forget that there are something like 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet. Even if we only consider the major Arab countries, those traditionally accused of being "radical", we see that their populations don't add up to Global Islam as a whole (ie: Saudi has about 26 mil, Iraq 23 mil, Iran somewhere in that region) Furthermore, to claim that everyone in those countries is radicalized is ridiculous. The majority of Muslims are moderate and as frustrated by radical Islam as anyone else. However, to quote an old saying "The squeeky wheel gets oiled". Moderate Muslims definetly need to do more to make sure they don't get lumped together with the radical fringe. As for people in the west (read conservatives) who repeat the rantings of the mullahs and claim that they are from the Koran and that Islam is evil; read the book, understand it and then speak up. If not keep your ignorant observations to yourself.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Maybe if they would take all those references out of the Qur'an which say that a woman should be covered from head to toe, caned on whims, and raped(only counts as rape if it is witnessed by a certain number of men...preferably not the ones holding her down) and then beheaded....

How strange...I can not find those references in my copy of the Qur'an. It only says something about no drinking, no eating pork, no gambling, praying 5 times a day, and making a visit to Mecca sometime in my life if I am able.....

Can anyone help me find these passages that mention the mullah muslim that is commonly practiced in these third world countries?

Good post.

When I find them, i'll PM you.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Maybe if they would take all those references out of the Qur'an which say that a woman should be covered from head to toe, caned on whims, and raped(only counts as rape if it is witnessed by a certain number of men...preferably not the ones holding her down) and then beheaded....

How strange...I can not find those references in my copy of the Qur'an. It only says something about no drinking, no eating pork, no gambling, praying 5 times a day, and making a visit to Mecca sometime in my life if I am able.....

Can anyone help me find these passages that mention the mullah muslim that is commonly practiced in these third world countries?

It's easy to convinve people to do something when they are ignorant. Religion is a powerful tool and a very dangerous one in the wrong hands. No where in the Koran does it say a lot of the things the radical mullahs claim to be the duties of a good Muslim. But if you grow up in a slum or a village and cannot read or write, and if I told you to do any of the things you mentioned, you would be a lot easier to convince than someone who is educated. We often forget that there are something like 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet. Even if we only consider the major Arab countries, those traditionally accused of being "radical", we see that their populations don't add up to Global Islam as a whole (ie: Saudi has about 26 mil, Iraq 23 mil, Iran somewhere in that region) Furthermore, to claim that everyone in those countries is radicalized is ridiculous. The majority of Muslims are moderate and as frustrated by radical Islam as anyone else. However, to quote an old saying "The squeeky wheel gets oiled". Moderate Muslims definetly need to do more to make sure they don't get lumped together with the radical fringe. As for people in the west (read conservatives) who repeat the rantings of the mullahs and claim that they are from the Koran and that Islam is evil; read the book, understand it and then speak up. If not keep your ignorant observations to yourself.

I have read it, I do understand and am speaking up...Think you need to check your sarcasm meter. My post was directed towards those that choose to ignore the Qur'an and choose to rely on the preachings and brainwashings of clerics as well as following the hadith's. Muhammed was by far not a man of morals, he was just the last and greatest prophet, right?

If the sqeeky wheel gets oiled, where are the moderate Muslims in the Middle East, Are their mouths rusted shut?

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Maybe if they would take all those references out of the Qur'an which say that a woman should be covered from head to toe, caned on whims, and raped(only counts as rape if it is witnessed by a certain number of men...preferably not the ones holding her down) and then beheaded....

How strange...I can not find those references in my copy of the Qur'an. It only says something about no drinking, no eating pork, no gambling, praying 5 times a day, and making a visit to Mecca sometime in my life if I am able.....

Can anyone help me find these passages that mention the mullah muslim that is commonly practiced in these third world countries?

It's easy to convinve people to do something when they are ignorant. Religion is a powerful tool and a very dangerous one in the wrong hands. No where in the Koran does it say a lot of the things the radical mullahs claim to be the duties of a good Muslim. But if you grow up in a slum or a village and cannot read or write, and if I told you to do any of the things you mentioned, you would be a lot easier to convince than someone who is educated. We often forget that there are something like 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet. Even if we only consider the major Arab countries, those traditionally accused of being "radical", we see that their populations don't add up to Global Islam as a whole (ie: Saudi has about 26 mil, Iraq 23 mil, Iran somewhere in that region) Furthermore, to claim that everyone in those countries is radicalized is ridiculous. The majority of Muslims are moderate and as frustrated by radical Islam as anyone else. However, to quote an old saying "The squeeky wheel gets oiled". Moderate Muslims definetly need to do more to make sure they don't get lumped together with the radical fringe. As for people in the west (read conservatives) who repeat the rantings of the mullahs and claim that they are from the Koran and that Islam is evil; read the book, understand it and then speak up. If not keep your ignorant observations to yourself.

I have read it, I do understand and am speaking up...Think you need to check your sarcasm meter. My post was directed towards those that choose to ignore the Qur'an and choose to rely on the preachings and brainwashings of clerics as well as following the hadith's. Muhammed was by far not a man of morals, he was just the last and greatest prophet, right?

Dude, I wasn't being sarcastic. I am in full agreement with you and I thought I was complimenting the fact that you actually read the book, sorry for any misunderstanding. My point was that a lot of people out there who blindly repeat stuff they hear on Fox News and claim it as truth, if they actually did what you did, they would know better.

 

[Moonbeam]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Sufism is Islamic so she has her wish. It is actually the core of all religions and is none of them. Sufism is visable and hidden. Sufism is not separable from a Sufi.

He who tastes, knows. A Sufi saying.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Sufism is Islamic so she has her wish. It is actually the core of all religions and is none of them. Sufism is visable and hidden. Sufism is not separable from a Sufi.

He who tastes, knows. A Sufi saying.

Not being able to tell a Sufi from a Suni I feel woefully inadaquite in stating "He who tastes not but follows need not taste to know"

 

[Moonbeam]

HJD1, in the article you will see a reference to Sufism as some form of instrumentality that speaks of direct experience of God. That experience is also not unknown in Christianity through grace. Whatever it is that happens, it leads to a very different kind of religious life than simple faith or following, in my opinion, because the direct esperience part aw in grace seems to be transformative at some fundamental level of being. But then, only he who tastes would really know.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
HJD1, in the article you will see a reference to Sufism as some form of instrumentality that speaks of direct experience of God. That experience is also not unknown in Christianity through grace. Whatever it is that happens, it leads to a very different kind of religious life than simple faith or following, in my opinion, because the direct esperience part aw in grace seems to be transformative at some fundamental level of being. But then, only he who tastes would really know.

My thinking was that like in christianity you have God within and where once was evil good exists... a transformation through faith versus the actual hand of god... well I've to think on this more..

 

[Moonbeam]

I wanted to tell you a story, and found this which has some rather interesting stuff on Sufism as related to Francis Bacon, apparently. I stumbled on it trying to remember how to spell Kidhr the patron saint of the Sufis which I needed for my story. Well I lost my post looking for the spelling but offer the link in instead.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I wanted to tell you a story, and found this which has some rather interesting stuff on Sufism as related to Francis Bacon, apparently. I stumbled on it trying to remember how to spell Kidhr the patron saint of the Sufis which I needed for my story. Well I lost my post looking for the spelling but offer the link in instead.

I read the link and know I must re read it a few more times before I am conversant with the interrelationships. Initially however, aside from awaking each morning with a jaundice eye toward my supposed reality although unencumbered by the fruit of the grape or worse... Irish breakfast tea is my weakness... Omar Kayyam... I'm still trying to comprehend 267 and five or so Arabic words... Francis Bacon and the Shrew... Sly (as a fox) .... This is way deep but yet seems so easy to grasp... John or Janus was Elija or Elias and all before Muhammad who challenges them to hear the word of the Sufi....

Photon... you have created more homework for me...

 

[Moonbeam]

The worker is hidden in the workshop. A Sufi Saying.

Arabic, which shows evidence of being an artificially created language, I've heard, and Hebrew, neither of which I speak so I don't really know what I'm talking about here precisely except as to convey my vague understanding of the system, Abjad, use words built on consonants, especially three I gather, connected by vowels. The consonants each have a numeric value which can be summed and words with the same sum seem to fall into categories, at least in Arabic, having strange psychological resonance or relationship. This allows someone like Omar the tent maker to choose his name in such a way, for example that the sum of the relevant letters in his name indicate, to the adept, that he was a Sufi teacher say from a particular school. Similarly the symbols he uses as literature have hidden significance as related to the form of teaching from that school, etc. By such means information that would be destroyed by the mechanical and censoring inclination of the average mind can be transmitted through time unedited. Similar types of preservation exist in the design of rugs, the layout of cities, for example Baghdad, etc. My simple impression is that where enlightened beings congregate in sufficient numbers, methods of instruction can be devised that defy ordinary conception and lead to possibilities we can't even imagine.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The worker is hidden in the workshop. A Sufi Saying.

Arabic, which shows evidence of being an artificially created language, I've heard, and Hebrew, neither of which I speak so I don't really know what I'm talking about here precisely except as to convey my vague understanding of the system, Abjad, use words built on consonants, especially three I gather, connected by vowels. The consonants each have a numeric value which can be summed and words with the same sum seem to fall into categories, at least in Arabic, having strange psychological resonance or relationship. This allows someone like Omar the tent maker to choose his name in such a way, for example that the sum of the relevant letters in his name indicate, to the adept, that he was a Sufi teacher say from a particular school. Similarly the symbols he uses as literature have hidden significance as related to the form of teaching from that school, etc. By such means information that would be destroyed by the mechanical and censoring inclination of the average mind can be transmitted through time unedited. Similar types of preservation exist in the design of rugs, the layout of cities, for example Baghdad, etc. My simple impression is that where enlightened beings congregate in sufficient numbers, methods of instruction can be devised that defy ordinary conception and lead to possibilities we can't even imagine.

Ah... it is starting to come back to me now... the number of his name is 666 and all. I remember reading about your above in school.. somehow linked to the Jesuits and the secret society of the mid east.. something to do with higher mystic beings.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is the reality and the gyrations it produces in those who come in contact with it peripherally. Hard to separate opinion and reaction based on preprogrammed notions and the thing itself, its inner reality or so I've heard.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There is the reality and the gyrations it produces in those who come in contact with it peripherally. Hard to separate opinion and reaction based on preprogrammed notions and the thing itself, its inner reality or so I've heard.

As a phenomenonologist might say.. to see with biased eyes the bias within requires a blindness so profound as to lay the matter incomprehensible.

 

[cpumaster]

Too bad God couldn't come Himself and set evrything right, but then if you have billions of galaxies and stars and trillion bilions of distance to cover in one second, you'd be pretty busy too... human probably caused 99% of problem in the world themselves, let them fix it