An Exercise You All Should Try

Zanix

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2003
5,568
12
81
Let one member of the group acquire the following thirteen items:

a toy fire truck;
a Barbie doll;
a reproduction of a Picasso painting;
a brick;
a screwdriver;
a hammer;
a turkey feather;
a piece of balsa wood;
a rubber ball;
a piece of hard wood, such as birch;
a "ghetto blaster" (portable stereo);
a pornographic novel;
a philosophical treatise by Bishop George Berkeley;

Place these items on the floor and let everybody sit around them. First, divide them into two groups- red things and not-red things. See how many times ambiguous cases arise (e.g., should a book with a red-and-white cover go in the red pile or the not-red pile?)

Let the 13 items be divided into another two groups- useful objects and toys. See how many ambiguities arise. (Does art belong among toys? Does the porno?)

Each week, as long as the group continues, let somebody think of another dualism and divide the 13 items into two piles according to the new dichotomy.

Note each case where two things fall into different groups according to one dualist system, and fall into the same groups according to another dualist system. (e.g., balsa wood and hard wood will fall into the same group if one divides "wooden things" from "non-wooden things", but will fall into different groups if one divides "things that float" from "things that do not float".)

Note how the Aristotelian argument "It 'is' either an A or a not-A" appears after you have found several things that belong on the same side of one dualism but on opposite sides of other dualisms.

Some suggestions for other dualisms: "educational things" and "entertaining things", "scientific things" and "non-scientific things", "good things" and "bad things", "organic things" and "inorganic things".

See how many odd and imaginatice dualisms the group can create.

At this point, an obvious fact seems worthy of special emphasis. Actually doing these exercizes in a group, as suggested, teaches much more than merely reading about them.





Taken from this book without permission.



Red vs. Blue, me vs. you..

It shouldn't be this way in every case.


Edit: for spelling
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Exactly what is the point of this exercise? To determine that things have more then one property? That not all systems are binary? Please explain further for there to be a discussion.
 

Zanix

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2003
5,568
12
81
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Exactly what is the point of this exercise? To determine that things have more then one property? That not all systems are binary? Please explain further for there to be a discussion.

Bingo.

I thought this was appropriate for all the polarization that's been commonplace in politics.

It bothers me when people are so sided that you can predict what they are going to say. It seems like no processing is going on.
 

Zanix

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2003
5,568
12
81
Not enough to spur a discussion I guess.

Then I guess I'll add that I'd like to see two so called polarized people argue for their opposing force. Who's the top Democrat and Republican around here?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Zanix
Not enough to spur a discussion I guess.

Then I guess I'll add that I'd like to see two so called polarized people argue for their opposing force. Who's the top Democrat and Republican around here?

This forum only exists because of polarization. If anybody here was interested in anything but black and white they'd already be holding hands and singing KumBaYa. :p
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,878
10,690
147
Every categorical label is part of an artificial structure, or model, that we devise to make sense of the world. But every model we devise, no matter how comples, is still a reductionist (simplified) version of the reality it models.

Only simpletons confuse the reductionist models tehy create to help explain reality for reality itself-- all the worse when the model is the least complex one possible, like the one that reduces the spectrum of all political possibilities down to the false dichotomy of "left" or "right."

Concommitantly, confusing the model (Marxism, American Individualism) or the metaphor (the Bible, the Koran) for the infinitely more variegated underlying "truth" or reality has always been the fundamentalist's basic mistake.
 

Zanix

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2003
5,568
12
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Every categorical label is part of an artificial structure, or model, that we devise to make sense of the world. But every model we devise, no matter how comples, is still a reductionist (simplified) version of the reality it models.

Only simpletons confuse the reductionist models tehy create to help explain reality for reality itself-- all the worse when the model is the least complex one possible, like the one that reduces the spectrum of all political possibilities down to the false dichotomy of "left" or "right."

Concommitantly, confusing the model (Marxism, American Individualism) or the metaphor (the Bible, the Koran) for the infinitely more variegated underlying "truth" or reality has always been the fundamentalist's basic mistake.


Nice post Perk! :thumbsup:
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Zanix
Not enough to spur a discussion I guess.

Then I guess I'll add that I'd like to see two so called polarized people argue for their opposing force. Who's the top Democrat and Republican around here?

This forum only exists because of polarization. If anybody here was interested in anything but black and white they'd already be holding hands and singing KumBaYa. :p

I'm interested in shades of grey ;)

 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: Zanix
Not enough to spur a discussion I guess.

Then I guess I'll add that I'd like to see two so called polarized people argue for their opposing force. Who's the top Democrat and Republican around here?

Thats a tough question actually...
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Zanix
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Exactly what is the point of this exercise? To determine that things have more then one property? That not all systems are binary? Please explain further for there to be a discussion.

Bingo.

I thought this was appropriate for all the polarization that's been commonplace in politics.

It bothers me when people are so sided that you can predict what they are going to say. It seems like no processing is going on.
People are never one-sided. It's the perception of them that is one-sided. People don't put themselves in a box, others do that. We see it happening in this forum all the time with the accusation of "Bushie," liberal, conservative, neocon, chickenhawk, Rush-apologist, etc...

 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: Zanix
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Exactly what is the point of this exercise? To determine that things have more then one property? That not all systems are binary? Please explain further for there to be a discussion.

Bingo.

I thought this was appropriate for all the polarization that's been commonplace in politics.

It bothers me when people are so sided that you can predict what they are going to say. It seems like no processing is going on.

Word up. I'm with you.
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
0
Originally posted by: Zanix
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Exactly what is the point of this exercise? To determine that things have more then one property? That not all systems are binary? Please explain further for there to be a discussion.

Bingo.

I thought this was appropriate for all the polarization that's been commonplace in politics.

It bothers me when people are so sided that you can predict what they are going to say. It seems like no processing is going on.

Yeah, nothing like campaigning on "two Americas" :p Where does one draw the line between the "haves" and the "have nots"?
Pretty empty rhetoric but it sure did play to some people's emotions.