You are certainly right . . . nothing has mobilized militants the world over like Bush policy. I assume northeast Asia refers to North Korea? Withdrawal from the NPT and an empty storage pool are not a good developments. As for the Middle East, Israel is likely armed to the teeth and according to Bushies Iran is actively seeking nukes and Syria has significant chem/bio activity. I'm not sure Bush wants to take credit for these accomplishments . . . well while appealing for votes with the radical Christian right and militant Jews he might take credit for the Israel part.
"Finally, the U.S. government must admit to the world that it was wrong about Iraq's WMD and show that it is taking far-reaching action to correct the problems that led to this error. Iraq is not going to be the last foreign-policy challenge in which we must make choices based on ambiguous evidence. When the United States confronts future challenges, the exaggerated estimates of Iraq's WMD will loom like an ugly shadow over the diplomatic discussions. Fairly or not, no foreigner trusts U.S. intelligence to get it right anymore, or trusts the Bush Administration to tell the truth. The only way that we can regain the world's trust is to demonstrate that we understand our mistakes and have changed our ways."
this should be agreed.
WE should All Be worried about Problems in our intelligence structure and the Decisions it causes us to make and the problems it fails to Recognise.
this should be agreed.
WE should All Be worried about Problems in our intelligence structure and the Decisions it causes us to make and the problems it fails to Recognise.
Interesting, in a self-serving claptrap sort of way. Elements within the Clinton Admin sought justification for increased and prolonged hostility with Iraq, shaped the attitudes and methods of the intelligence community to achieve those ends. Even when you're telling the boss things he doesn't want to hear, you can put it in terms he'll like. When research is based on ontological premises, you'll get the results dictated by those premises...
Enter GWB, who said "Find me a way". Fast forward through 9/11/01, and very little was required, merely a reinterpretation of already biased and shaded conclusions... The reason the intelligence was wrong is because those who commissioned it didn't care if it was right or not, they needed for it to support their predetermined agenda.
Enter GWB, who said "Find me a way". Fast forward through 9/11/01, and very little was required, merely a reinterpretation of already biased and shaded conclusions... The reason the intelligence was wrong is because those who commissioned it didn't care if it was right or not, they needed for it to support their predetermined agenda.
I found the article thoughtful. I don't agree with all of it, but nobody ever agrees 100 percent with anyone.
Jhhnn: I disagree with you often, but this time I don't. GWB was not having warm fuzzies towards Iraq, and felt the world would be better off without Saddam. Clinton's administration had already painted Iraq and Saddam to black, so Bush's subordinates did what they could to back the bosses attitude. Along came 9/11, and Presto! There you go! Saddams big mouth and past sympathy for terrorists came back to haunt him. But instead of a drive-by, we stayed for popcorn and a movie this time.
Jhhnn: I disagree with you often, but this time I don't. GWB was not having warm fuzzies towards Iraq, and felt the world would be better off without Saddam. Clinton's administration had already painted Iraq and Saddam to black, so Bush's subordinates did what they could to back the bosses attitude. Along came 9/11, and Presto! There you go! Saddams big mouth and past sympathy for terrorists came back to haunt him. But instead of a drive-by, we stayed for popcorn and a movie this time.
This article deserves a sticky . . . along with O'Neill's assessment of Bush and Kay's assessment of Iraq's WMD.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Good idea. I highly recommend this article to anyone who hasn't read it already. If alc and I both agree it's a good article, you have to know it's reasonably balanced. There's good and bad news for partisans on both sides. For everyone else, it offers real insight into how we got where we did.
I'd have to agree with the the "it's a good article" assesment. It is soberly and intelligently written by someone who really was an insider (not someone who's been out of the loop for over a decade or who was never in it to begin with) and is the best summary of what probably really happened that I have read. I would encourage everyone to read it even though it is ~15 printed pages. It's not PDF and I know the length is a barrier to entry for many of you but try to focus. Also try not to cherry pick. I know that's tough for those that have a hate driven myopic view of this situation, who think that the entire body of knowledge on this subject can be condensed into three articles, but try to perservere. It won't hurt, I promise.
Bush needs to fall on his sword. Hundreds of dead Americans and thousands of innocents killed because of a psychopathological itch. This boob stopped the count in an election he lost and was selected by 5 partisan appointed friends. It's a hideous outrage. Bush slimed this great nation. I pray to God that shallow little bastard's defeated like he was last time and this time the votes get counted.
Never cared for mental masturbation with so many dead. All that blood is on my head. I couldn't stop it and I'm the one to blame.
Never cared for mental masturbation with so many dead. All that blood is on my head. I couldn't stop it and I'm the one to blame.
The remedies posed by the author fail to list the most critical. Congress should reassume its constitutional duty to be the sole decider as to whether we go to war. Those God Damned cowards are afraid if they speak they'll be thrown out of office so they've handed the President a license to kill. Our government is filled with people who are as worthless as sh!t.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Lately we seem to be besieged by P&N irregulars popping in with drive-by disinformation-ings. Rather than continually rehashing old ground, I thought it was time to bring some of the more informative threads back to the foreground. If they take a few minutes to educate themselves, we can save a lot of time and aggravation.
(Or not, but it's worth a try.)
(Or not, but it's worth a try.)
They are weak NeoCon attempts at shoring up the crumbling Regime of their Fearless Liar. This is fun.
I had no idea so much fun was to be had leading up to November. I was dreading it but not anymore
I dunno, after the jets I think it was hard to admit there wasnt anything there. Actually, it kind of illustrated there could be many things there, depends on how ya look at it.
it is a good article.
personally i feel the more "intrusive" inspection route should ahve been taken from the start, instead of the idiotic sanction policy that only hurt the avg iraqi much more than it did the baath socialist power structure, which from a humanitarian perspective should be as much(more actually) a travesty than any "lack" of WMD evidence.
i mean here is the UN, an organization supossedly dedicated to human rights first and foremost and they(with the US included BTW) basically starved an entire nation for over a decade rather than take a strong and definitive stance and do what needed to be done...
while food was stockpiled along with millions in cash, gold plated weapons, rare and expensive wine. the average iraqi suffered from shortages of basic human need. we may be lacking in "evidence" of a WMD smoking gun(at least enough to convince many people), but the evidence of the utter failure of economic sanctions is way past obvious.
personally i feel the more "intrusive" inspection route should ahve been taken from the start, instead of the idiotic sanction policy that only hurt the avg iraqi much more than it did the baath socialist power structure, which from a humanitarian perspective should be as much(more actually) a travesty than any "lack" of WMD evidence.
i mean here is the UN, an organization supossedly dedicated to human rights first and foremost and they(with the US included BTW) basically starved an entire nation for over a decade rather than take a strong and definitive stance and do what needed to be done...
while food was stockpiled along with millions in cash, gold plated weapons, rare and expensive wine. the average iraqi suffered from shortages of basic human need. we may be lacking in "evidence" of a WMD smoking gun(at least enough to convince many people), but the evidence of the utter failure of economic sanctions is way past obvious.
What about the "ties" between Iraq and Al-Q?
To this day there is no evidence, and our own intelligence people say there was no such link, then or now.....
To this day there is no evidence, and our own intelligence people say there was no such link, then or now.....
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