An Armed Citizen With A Permit Stopped The Last VA College Shooting Rampage

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: andylawcc
i consider myself a gun control freak, but I would agree this rampage would never happen to, say, Texas A&M.

Hehe, yeah, because Texans are so much tougher than the rest of us.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Well first of all you'd have to assess the situation and not just shoot someone that you see holding a gun. Lets see we have one guy with a bandolier of ammo shooting unarmed people and you have another guy hiding around a corner with his gun trying to aim in on the guy shooting unarmed people.....Second, do you have any evidence to back up your theory because there is plenty of evidence saying the exact opposite, mainly the OP. There are plenty of states that issue CCW permits so it really shouldn't be too hard for you to find all of these types of scenarios playing out the way that you think it would.

BTW, I'm not sure why you say that I'm "trigger happy" just because I am a proponent of concealed carry....

Yeah, as if a digg article from the source 'cyber news' is really credible.

And you really think innocent people with handguns have never been gunned down before because of mis-identifying? Even cops have been known to shoot and killed kids with toy guns, let alone citizens with real guns.

Of course it happens, but its very rare, you make it out to be an every day occurrence. The good far outweighs the bad. BTW, are you denying that this happened because of the source? Thats a little silly.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Looney
How about quit being John Wayne and realize that this isn't the movies, and you running around with a gun will probably cause more panic or get you killed.

So of all the times a citizen has used their weapon to protect themselves and the lives of others has your hypothetical BS ever happened?

I don't see how you can not see all the GOOD that came from this story. It happens all the time, just not reported and many times the fact that the victim used a weapon to protect themselves is left out of the news.

I agree with that, this is the first time i have heard about this story.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: andylawcc
i consider myself a gun control freak, but I would agree this rampage would never happen to, say, Texas A&M.

Hehe, yeah, because Texans are so much tougher than the rest of us.

I think you missed his point.

 

[thomsbrain]

and another one started the most recent rampage. VA law requires CCW permits to be issued to all who can legally own a gun. the gunman had two legally purchased handguns. your point?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Looney
How about quit being John Wayne and realize that this isn't the movies, and you running around with a gun will probably cause more panic or get you killed.

So of all the times a citizen has used their weapon to protect themselves and the lives of others has your hypothetical BS ever happened?

I don't see how you can not see all the GOOD that came from this story. It happens all the time, just not reported and many times the fact that the victim used a weapon to protect themselves is left out of the news.

Yep, and a lot of times its not going to be reported at all, like if you confront someone lurking around your property with a gun and they run off, more than likely you aren't going to call the cops.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Well first of all you'd have to assess the situation and not just shoot someone that you see holding a gun. Lets see we have one guy with a bandolier of ammo shooting unarmed people and you have another guy hiding around a corner with his gun trying to aim in on the guy shooting unarmed people.....Second, do you have any evidence to back up your theory because there is plenty of evidence saying the exact opposite, mainly the OP. There are plenty of states that issue CCW permits so it really shouldn't be too hard for you to find all of these types of scenarios playing out the way that you think it would.

BTW, I'm not sure why you say that I'm "trigger happy" just because I am a proponent of concealed carry....

Yeah, as if a digg article from the source 'cyber news' is really credible.

And you really think innocent people with handguns have never been gunned down before because of mis-identifying? Even cops have been known to shoot and killed kids with toy guns, let alone citizens with real guns.

Of course it happens, but its very rare, you make it out to be an every day occurrence. The good far outweighs the bad. BTW, are you denying that this happened because of the source? Thats a little silly.

Um no, read my original post. The source he conveniently forgot to mention that one of the citizens was actually a former cop who took control of the situation.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Citrix
I agree with that, this is the first time i have heard about this story.

Most of the news that was reported about this story actually left out the fact the two drew their weapons. It was only reported that the shooter was tackled.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
and another one started the most recent rampage. VA law requires CCW permits to be issued to all who can legally own a gun. the gunman had two legally purchased handguns. your point?

The point is that no one there was allowed to carry a handgun, even if that nutjob had a CCW permit he wouldn't have been allowed to carry it at VA Tech.....

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: JD50
Yep, and a lot of times its not going to be reported at all, like if you confront someone lurking around your property with a gun and they run off, more than likely you aren't going to call the cops.

The going estimate for a citizen using a gun to protect themselves or others is something like 1.5 milltion - 3 million incidents PER YEAR.

They have to be "estimates" because as you said a good deal of the time it isn't reported to authorities.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Well first of all you'd have to assess the situation and not just shoot someone that you see holding a gun. Lets see we have one guy with a bandolier of ammo shooting unarmed people and you have another guy hiding around a corner with his gun trying to aim in on the guy shooting unarmed people.....Second, do you have any evidence to back up your theory because there is plenty of evidence saying the exact opposite, mainly the OP. There are plenty of states that issue CCW permits so it really shouldn't be too hard for you to find all of these types of scenarios playing out the way that you think it would.

BTW, I'm not sure why you say that I'm "trigger happy" just because I am a proponent of concealed carry....

Yeah, as if a digg article from the source 'cyber news' is really credible.

And you really think innocent people with handguns have never been gunned down before because of mis-identifying? Even cops have been known to shoot and killed kids with toy guns, let alone citizens with real guns.

Of course it happens, but its very rare, you make it out to be an every day occurrence. The good far outweighs the bad. BTW, are you denying that this happened because of the source? Thats a little silly.

Um no, read my original post. The source he conveniently forgot to mention that one of the citizens was actually a former cop who took control of the situation.

So? The point of the story is that a mass murderer was stopped because of other people being armed. What does the guy being a former cop have to do with it?

 

[her209]

In the overall picture of crime, what percentage of crime occurs where a firearm is involved?

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: JD50

Um no, read my original post. The source he conveniently forgot to mention that one of the citizens was actually a former cop who took control of the situation.

So? The point of the story is that a mass murderer was stopped because of other people being armed. What does the guy being a former cop have to do with it?

[/quote]

A mass murderer? Ok, you're obviously one of the people who only just read the OP.

It's despicable how you nuts and the NRA are using this tragic incident to push for pro-gun lobbying.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JD50
Yep, and a lot of times its not going to be reported at all, like if you confront someone lurking around your property with a gun and they run off, more than likely you aren't going to call the cops.

The going estimate for a citizen using a gun to protect themselves or others is something like 1.5 milltion - 3 million incidents PER YEAR.

They have to be "estimates" because as you said a good deal of the time it isn't reported to authorities.

8K times per day. Wow. Call me skeptical. At least choose numbers which sound reasonable.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Um no, read my original post. The source he conveniently forgot to mention that one of the citizens was actually a former cop who took control of the situation.

So? The point of the story is that a mass murderer was stopped because of other people being armed. What does the guy being a former cop have to do with it?

A mass murderer? Ok, you're obviously one of the people who only just read the OP.

It's despicable how you nuts and the NRA are using this tragic incident to push for pro-gun lobbying.[/quote]

WTF? How am I a nut just because I advocate CCWs? I'm not pushing any kind of agenda, I'm saying what I think might help avert the next tragedy. You come in here with all of your rhetoric about how dangerous it would be if it was easier to get a CCW (even though its pretty damn easy to get one in VA) without any facts to back you up. The facts actually completely disprove your theory, so you resort to calling me a "nut". Nice.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JD50
Yep, and a lot of times its not going to be reported at all, like if you confront someone lurking around your property with a gun and they run off, more than likely you aren't going to call the cops.

The going estimate for a citizen using a gun to protect themselves or others is something like 1.5 milltion - 3 million incidents PER YEAR.

They have to be "estimates" because as you said a good deal of the time it isn't reported to authorities.

8K times per day. Wow. Call me skeptical. At least choose numbers which sound reasonable.

Not my numbers...it's from facts and research papers/surveys.

"National polls indicate that people
use guns defensively against criminal attacks somewhere between
760,000 and 3.5 million times per year."

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=161637

It's an awesome read if anybody wants to look at the facts instead of conjecture and hypotetical (and unsubstaniated) rhetoric.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: fisheerman
spurred by another topic:

I haven't seen the mainstream media presenting this in the whole gun control arguement have you?

article

By two people with guns actually. What no one on the "yeah gotta have my 6 shooter with me at all times crowd" mentions is that ONE OF THEM WAS A OFF DUTY OR FORMER LEO, different sources say differently! So one would expect that he took control of the situation and once the murderer was subdued made sure that all weapons where out of reach of the murder and the people who subdued him, in plain site, and as soon as the police arrived in loud contact with the police who where coming on the scene.

Now how many of the yahoo gotta carry at all times crowd would know or have the ability in a stress situation to handle themselves correctly? 1 in 20 if that!

Add to that you're running around with a gun trying to become a hero, and another hero with his gun sees you running around with a gun and pops one off at you. Or the police sniper takes you out not knowing whether you're the real shooter or not, or just a wanna-be hero.

Well, we have seen what happens when you two get your way (keeping eeeeevil guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens), and its much worse than what either of you THINK would have happened if someone else had a gun.

If i had a gun it would be used for self-defense, not to be a hero. That incident was lucky that one of the 'heroes' was an actual cop... if you had run up with your gun and saw 2 guys pointing guns at one another, who would you shoot? both of them?

If there is some loon running around shooting people wouldn't it be in your best interest to stop him? Sorry this isn't the movies, people don't get into a staring contest while pointing guns at each other, it doesn't happen that way.

And if somebody else has a gun and sees you running with one, what is going to stop him from assuming you're not the bad guy and popping one off at you?

YOU'RE the one that needs to wake up and realize this isn't the movies, and if you're running around trying to be a hero, other people with hero complexes are going to be as trigger happy as you, and seeing you running around with a gun, will probably gun you down... or you'll shoot the wrong person.

You obviously live in the world of the theoretical since conceal and carry owners have a better record of discharging their weapons than cops. Everything you have said is premised with "could" or "might". Instead we have the hard facts that your could and might havent happened yet and instead the gun laws which restrict the ability of people to defend themselves has failed over and over.

I honestly dont understand how you can sit there with a straight face and think gun free zones and taking guns out of people's hands is the right thing to do considering the death toll these laws have left.

 

[AgentJean]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: fisheerman
spurred by another topic:

I haven't seen the mainstream media presenting this in the whole gun control arguement have you?

article

By two people with guns actually. What no one on the "yeah gotta have my 6 shooter with me at all times crowd" mentions is that ONE OF THEM WAS A OFF DUTY OR FORMER LEO, different sources say differently! So one would expect that he took control of the situation and once the murderer was subdued made sure that all weapons where out of reach of the murder and the people who subdued him, in plain site, and as soon as the police arrived in loud contact with the police who where coming on the scene.

Now how many of the yahoo gotta carry at all times crowd would know or have the ability in a stress situation to handle themselves correctly? 1 in 20 if that!

Add to that you're running around with a gun trying to become a hero, and another hero with his gun sees you running around with a gun and pops one off at you. Or the police sniper takes you out not knowing whether you're the real shooter or not, or just a wanna-be hero.

Well, we have seen what happens when you two get your way (keeping eeeeevil guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens), and its much worse than what either of you THINK would have happened if someone else had a gun.

Ahhh.. another MUST CARRY GUN, DON"T KNOW HOW TO USE GUN, MUST CARRY GUN! advocate.

Nowhere have I advocated banning guns. Now banning idiots that think(?) returning to the Wild West will make this country safer from carry permits and hand gun ownership might not be a bad idea.

Look up "Gun Town USA" a small town in GA require all heads of the house hold to own and be trained in the use of a firearm. Crime took a noise dive in this town.

An armed society is a polite society.

 

[glutenberg]

Can anyone imagine an armed Southern California society? People have so much road rage that I imagine if they had a weapon in reach of them, they would just shoot each other.

 

[RobsPics]

"Wild Wild West..."

- Kool Moe Dee

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: glutenberg
Can anyone imagine an armed Southern California society? People have so much road rage that I imagine if they had a weapon in reach of them, they would just shoot each other.

If someone is going to be that idiotic, then they will probably ignore whatever law anyways.

 

[ric1287]

the one thing no anti-gun nut cant argue is how ANY law would prevent criminals from getting guns. The criminals do not follow the laws to begin with, so all we are doing in un-arming people who would use the guns for protection. Complete black and white argument to me, makes no sense how anyone cannot see that.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: fisheerman
spurred by another topic:

I haven't seen the mainstream media presenting this in the whole gun control arguement have you?

article

By two people with guns actually. What no one on the "yeah gotta have my 6 shooter with me at all times crowd" mentions is that ONE OF THEM WAS A OFF DUTY OR FORMER LEO, different sources say differently! So one would expect that he took control of the situation and once the murderer was subdued made sure that all weapons where out of reach of the murder and the people who subdued him, in plain site, and as soon as the police arrived in loud contact with the police who where coming on the scene.

Now how many of the yahoo gotta carry at all times crowd would know or have the ability in a stress situation to handle themselves correctly? 1 in 20 if that!

Add to that you're running around with a gun trying to become a hero, and another hero with his gun sees you running around with a gun and pops one off at you. Or the police sniper takes you out not knowing whether you're the real shooter or not, or just a wanna-be hero.

Well, we have seen what happens when you two get your way (keeping eeeeevil guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens), and its much worse than what either of you THINK would have happened if someone else had a gun.

If i had a gun it would be used for self-defense, not to be a hero. That incident was lucky that one of the 'heroes' was an actual cop... if you had run up with your gun and saw 2 guys pointing guns at one another, who would you shoot? both of them?

Neither of them?

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: JD50

Well first of all you'd have to assess the situation and not just shoot someone that you see holding a gun. Lets see we have one guy with a bandolier of ammo shooting unarmed people and you have another guy hiding around a corner with his gun trying to aim in on the guy shooting unarmed people.....Second, do you have any evidence to back up your theory because there is plenty of evidence saying the exact opposite, mainly the OP. There are plenty of states that issue CCW permits so it really shouldn't be too hard for you to find all of these types of scenarios playing out the way that you think it would.

BTW, I'm not sure why you say that I'm "trigger happy" just because I am a proponent of concealed carry....

Yeah, as if a digg article from the source 'cyber news' is really credible.

And you really think innocent people with handguns have never been gunned down before because of mis-identifying? Even cops have been known to shoot and killed kids with toy guns, let alone citizens with real guns.

I can guareentee you this doesn't happen you wanna know why?
because the liberal news outlets would run the story 24/7 the whole year screaming see we told you CCW doesn't work.

get your facts straight.

-fish