An arab woman who "gets it"!!

[sumyungai]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, finally was able to watch the video.

You know, some of the things she said could be directed to the pseudo-Christians trying to take over our government here. Granted these lunatics don't resort to violence but they also believe (as the militant Islamists do) they others must convert their way of thinking and believing. They don't accept that one's personal beliefs are just that, personal. The ol' "your rights end where mine begin" concept.

She also was making generalizations of Muslims when I think she was directing her words to the militant Islamists (like Sayyid Wutb and Zawahiri after him and all of the militant Islamists that were congregating in Afghanistan well before the Taliban took over and also exist in other areas like Indonesia.)


One other thing caught my eye:

"I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger."


Reminds me of:

"I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. Let anyone be accursed who has no love for the Lord. Our Lord, come!"

and

"If anyone will not welcome your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town...Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

When kids grow up forced to study those kinds of langauges ("I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger"), what type of people do you think this would breed? Now remember, all the kids and adults (if they live long enough) all over the middle east recite this and most think this is the holy grale. And then you turn on the news and watch embassies get ransact, churches burned, suicide bombings, beheading, riots over a cartoon, etc etc. Now put 2 and 2 together, what do you get, five?

You fall under the spell of generalization, too.

How many Muslims in this world? How many in the US even? With all of the millions of Muslims here in the US it would seem the US would be torn limb-from-limb given the horrible militant lunatics running amok here.


What you miserably fail to understand is that it's a minority of Muslims that espouse the militant, radical version of Islam. Much like the Bible-thumpers and evolution deniers here in the US. It's a group of people spreading ignorance. The majority of Muslims are peaceful, law abiding citizens of whatever country in which they reside.


What the US needs to do (and what I've been saying for over 2 years) is to work with other countries, specifically those in the Middle East and SW Asia, and have the leaders of those nations crack down on militant madrassas and other radical, militant groups.

I take it your answer IS five.

If I take a sample of 100 people and I would tell them the sky is green for all their life. Will all of them believe its green? No. Some will think for themselves, but then there will be those who believe in it. Just because only some will believe in my wrong teaching, will it make my teaching right?

In other words, Islam teaches hate and intolerance, agreed? And only some, not all, will follow Islam's preachings, does that make it ok to teach Islam?

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
How about we mind our own business and let the Muslims do what they want to do in their own countries?

That only works if they mind their own business as well.

When you are dealing with an idealogy that is intolerable of you (this is what the video is all about if you watched it) and what are you to do? But since most fail to see this, this become a moot point.

I view the muslims as a wasp nest. You leave the nest alone, they leave you alone. You go in there and start poking it with a stick and all bets are off. Since we've been poking them with a stick for years, we get what we deserve.

Well fly over there and let them kill you then big boy

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Well fly over there and let them kill you then big boy

This makes no sense at all, why would he knowingly want to stir up trouble when he said it was a hornets nest?

Anyhow, the hornets nest is a poor analogy, more like a bees nest, with very succulent tasty black honey dripping all over.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, finally was able to watch the video.

You know, some of the things she said could be directed to the pseudo-Christians trying to take over our government here. Granted these lunatics don't resort to violence but they also believe (as the militant Islamists do) they others must convert their way of thinking and believing. They don't accept that one's personal beliefs are just that, personal. The ol' "your rights end where mine begin" concept.

She also was making generalizations of Muslims when I think she was directing her words to the militant Islamists (like Sayyid Wutb and Zawahiri after him and all of the militant Islamists that were congregating in Afghanistan well before the Taliban took over and also exist in other areas like Indonesia.)


One other thing caught my eye:

"I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger."


Reminds me of:

"I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. Let anyone be accursed who has no love for the Lord. Our Lord, come!"

and

"If anyone will not welcome your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town...Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

When kids grow up forced to study those kinds of langauges ("I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger"), what type of people do you think this would breed? Now remember, all the kids and adults (if they live long enough) all over the middle east recite this and most think this is the holy grale. And then you turn on the news and watch embassies get ransact, churches burned, suicide bombings, beheading, riots over a cartoon, etc etc. Now put 2 and 2 together, what do you get, five?

You fall under the spell of generalization, too.

How many Muslims in this world? How many in the US even? With all of the millions of Muslims here in the US it would seem the US would be torn limb-from-limb given the horrible militant lunatics running amok here.


What you miserably fail to understand is that it's a minority of Muslims that espouse the militant, radical version of Islam. Much like the Bible-thumpers and evolution deniers here in the US. It's a group of people spreading ignorance. The majority of Muslims are peaceful, law abiding citizens of whatever country in which they reside.


What the US needs to do (and what I've been saying for over 2 years) is to work with other countries, specifically those in the Middle East and SW Asia, and have the leaders of those nations crack down on militant madrassas and other radical, militant groups.

I take it your answer IS five.

If I take a sample of 100 people and I would tell them the sky is green for all their life. Will all of them believe its green? No. Some will think for themselves, but then there will be those who believe in it. Just because only some will believe in my wrong teaching, wil l make my teaching right.

Uh, please step away from the bong.

In other words, Islam teaches hate and intolerance, agreed? And only some, not all, will follow Islam's preachings, does that make it ok to teach Islam?

No, NOT agreed. Islam teaches hate and intolerance as much as the Old Testament and parts of the New Testament.


I'll try this again, real slowly this time:

Militant...Islamists...distort...the Qu'ran...for their...political/religious...agenda.

 

[tnitsuj]

This kind of stuff is on Al Jazeera all the time. They have more open and honest debate than just about any Arab media outlet.

Of course most Americans just see that as a terrorist mouth piece.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
How about we mind our own business and let the Muslims do what they want to do in their own countries?

Very well said, except for one thing.

They consider the whole world as their country and they will use our own freedoms, liberties, and political correctness against us.

Islam to rule the world

Constitution for the new Islamic Republic of USA is under construction.
We will fight infidel to death.
Meanwhile, American laws will protect us.
Democrats and Leftist will support us.
UNO will legitimize us.
CAIR will incubate us.
ACLU will empower us.
Western Universities will shelter us.
Hollywood will love us.

Our children will immigrate from Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Indonesia and even from India to the US for education in full scholarship. America is paying and will continue to pay for our children?s educations and their upbringing in state funded Islamic schools.

We will use your welfare system. Our children will also send money home while they are preparing for Jihad.

We will take advantage of American kindness, gullibility, and compassion. When time comes we will stab them in the back to death. We will say one thing on the camera and teach another thing to our children at home. We will teach our children Islamic value from the very childhood. We will teach them not to compromise with Infidel. Once we do that from the very early age our children won?t hesitate to be martyr. We will take over the Europe first and then US. We already have a solid ground in the UK, Holland, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Germany, and US.

Our children will marry Caucasian in Europe and in America. We will mixed with intricate fabric of the Western society but still will remember to Jihad when times come. We are called ?sleeper cells?. We will raise our children to be loyal to Islam and Mohammad.

At the time of the real fight we will hold our own children as our armor. When American or Israeli troops shoot at us the world will be watching. Imagine,? Imagine the news in the world /. Death of Muslim babies by infidels.

We know CNN, ABC, CBS are broadcasting live. Al-Jazeera will pour gasoline on the fire. The news will spread like wild fire. ?Americans killed 6 babies, 10 babies?. ?Jews killed two women?,

Visualize the news flash all over the world, ?Moslem mother is sobbing, ?.crying. ?.Her babies are killed by Jews and Americans, the whole world is watching live. Hundrends of millions of Muslims all around the world are boiling. They will march through Europe. We will use our women to produce more babies who will in turn be used as armor/shield. Our babies are the gift from Allah for Jihad.

West manufactures their tanks in the factory. We will manufacture our military force by natural means, by producing more babies. That is the way it is cheaper.

You infidels at this site cannot defeat us. We are 1.2 billion. We will double again. Do you have enough bullets to kill us?

On the camera:
We will always say, ?Islam is the religion of Piece.?
We will say, ?Jihad is actually inner Jihad.?
There will be more 911 in Europe and in America.
We will say, ?We do not support terrorism but America got what it deserved.?

Muslims, CAIR, ISNA and other international Islamic Organization will unite. We will partner with Leftist, ACLU, with Koffi Annan, and the UN, and if we have to then even with France. Fasten your seatbelt, war of civilizations has just begun.

We will use your own values of Kindness against you.

You are destined to loose.

Must be very depressing for you. Isn?t it?

Allah-hu-Akbar.

Iran's president: Islam to rule the world

?We must believe in the fact that Islam is not confined to geographical borders, ethnic groups and nations. It?s a universal ideology that leads the world to justice?, Ahmadinejad said.

?We don?t shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world?, he added.

Ahmadinejad dwelled on his recurrent theme that the return of the Shiite Messiah, the Mahdi, is not far away and Muslims must prepare for it.

?We must prepare ourselves to rule the world and the only way to do that is to put forth views on the basis of the Expectation of the Return?, Ahmadinejad said, referring to the Shiite Muslim belief that the Mahdi, on his return, will establish justice in a world consumed by chaos and corruption.

Free republic creeping sharia
Domestic violence not equal under the law

Most of the great issues we face today snuck up on us. How many Canadians in 1990 reckoned that by 2005 men would be marrying men at city hall? How many Europeans gave a thought to the Islamification of almost every one of their cities? I've written before about the phenomenon of "creeping sharia"--last year's decision by the Inland Revenue in London to recognize polygamy for the purposes of inheritance tax; the news the other week that police in the Australian state of Victoria have been instructed to "treat Muslim domestic violence cases differently out of respect for Islamic traditions and habits"--i.e., if you're in the habit of beating your wife, it's best not to be Presbyterian. This would seem to deal a severe blow not just to Ahmed's four hapless spouses but also to the concept of equality before the law.

This Iranian woman helped stop Sharia in Canada

From then until December 2004, when Boyd proposed instituting Shari'a law in Muslim family arbitrations, Arjomand devoted every leisure moment to defeating this measure. ?We can stop it,? she said last year, despite her fear that Pakistani, Iranian, and Saudi Arabian governments backed the IICJ push for Shari'a rule in Ontario's family courts

Under Sharia law the men rule in custody and divorce disputes not women as here in the west.

Canada: A Muslim woman's sharia ordeal

For months, a Muslim woman living in Toronto tried to wring a divorce out of her local imam.

Under sharia law, her husband had to consent to the divorce-- even though he had abandoned the family four years earlier and married another woman in a South Asian country where polygamy is legal.

The imam told her that her spouse wanted $100,000 and all her gold jewellery, she said, asking that her identity not be disclosed because she fears retribution from her ex-husband, the imam and her community.

She managed to bargain him down to $5,000, money she had to borrow. She also agreed to give up all child-support payments and alimony, and not to take legal action against him in the future.

Without his consent, she could not remarry within her religion.

"The imam told me, 'there are some sharia conditions you must follow, we must come to a settlement within sharia.' I agreed because I was desperate," said the woman, 29, who uses the pseudonym Shinaz.

"If the mullah, our religious leader, didn't grant the divorce, then under sharia I would have lost custody of my son when he turned eight. Also, I could not remarry."

So can Western freedoms and liberties coexist with this ideology since according to some here if we mind our own business they won't bother us ?

 

[Steeplerot]

You post a bunch of links from whackjob right wing blogs, freerepublic? jihadwatch? give me a break frontpagemag?? those places are no better then fundamentalist taliban sites.

You really need to get better sources, those websites are batsh1t crazy, like the republican party's own personal national enquirers of the web

 

[sumyungai]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, finally was able to watch the video.

You know, some of the things she said could be directed to the pseudo-Christians trying to take over our government here. Granted these lunatics don't resort to violence but they also believe (as the militant Islamists do) they others must convert their way of thinking and believing. They don't accept that one's personal beliefs are just that, personal. The ol' "your rights end where mine begin" concept.

She also was making generalizations of Muslims when I think she was directing her words to the militant Islamists (like Sayyid Wutb and Zawahiri after him and all of the militant Islamists that were congregating in Afghanistan well before the Taliban took over and also exist in other areas like Indonesia.)


One other thing caught my eye:

"I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger."


Reminds me of:

"I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. Let anyone be accursed who has no love for the Lord. Our Lord, come!"

and

"If anyone will not welcome your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town...Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

When kids grow up forced to study those kinds of langauges ("I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger"), what type of people do you think this would breed? Now remember, all the kids and adults (if they live long enough) all over the middle east recite this and most think this is the holy grale. And then you turn on the news and watch embassies get ransact, churches burned, suicide bombings, beheading, riots over a cartoon, etc etc. Now put 2 and 2 together, what do you get, five?

You fall under the spell of generalization, too.

How many Muslims in this world? How many in the US even? With all of the millions of Muslims here in the US it would seem the US would be torn limb-from-limb given the horrible militant lunatics running amok here.


What you miserably fail to understand is that it's a minority of Muslims that espouse the militant, radical version of Islam. Much like the Bible-thumpers and evolution deniers here in the US. It's a group of people spreading ignorance. The majority of Muslims are peaceful, law abiding citizens of whatever country in which they reside.


What the US needs to do (and what I've been saying for over 2 years) is to work with other countries, specifically those in the Middle East and SW Asia, and have the leaders of those nations crack down on militant madrassas and other radical, militant groups.

I take it your answer IS five.

If I take a sample of 100 people and I would tell them the sky is green for all their life. Will all of them believe its green? No. Some will think for themselves, but then there will be those who believe in it. Just because only some will believe in my wrong teaching, will it make my teaching right?

Uh, please step away from the bong.

In other words, Islam teaches hate and intolerance, agreed? And only some, not all, will follow Islam's preachings, does that make it ok to teach Islam?

No, NOT agreed. Islam teaches hate and intolerance as much as the Old Testament and parts of the New Testament.


I'll try this again, real slowly this time:

Militant...Islamists...distort...the Qu'ran...for their...political/religious...agenda.

This quote is from you, "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger" (not from Rush Limbaught) and if you can't interprept that as hate and intolerance then I don't know what can.

 

[palehorse]

regarding the Quran, let's ju agree themst say that the fanatical clerics throughout Islam do not have to work very hard to "distort" it for their followers... heck, in most passages, it's as simple as emphasizing one word or sentence moreso than the others... The book itself is filled with many calls and excuses for violence against non-believers or anyone violating Shiria. "Civilized" Muslims just tend to take those passages with a grain of salt, or have Imams who interpret them metaphorically... But throughout Indonesia, Africa, Central Asia, and the ME, there are Imams who go the other way with them in their teachings, and they really do preach hatred violence.

So again, there is no denying that the very root of the problem lies in the Quran itself. That said, many have called for the book to be rewritten (An "Islamic New Testament" if you will). That just isnt a realistic option though, unless the most powerful Imams were to agree, and that's just not going to happen.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
What do you want to discuss?

well ok, do you agree or disagree with the woman in the video?

As in this country when it comes to our own backward primitive Christians we call fundamentalists, it would be better, in my opinion, if the real Christians stepped forward to criticize them.

Alternatively, we might want to pump this debate, as was done here, into the Islamic world, via news agencies like Al Jazeera, night and day in the form of Islamic scholars on all sides of the issue taking part in debate at some location where their lives would be safe. The thing about people who would kill you for thinking differently than them is that they are difficult to reach. They live in a cocoon of their own making.

We can win the war on Islamic terrorism, in my opinion, either by killing the Islamic world or changing their minds, ie, we become like them, or they become like us. It really depends, I think, on what you have faith in. If our faith in truth is so fundamentally weak as theirs that we need to kill any opposing message, then we too will go down the path of extermination. If we believe in what we claim we do then we will fight on the plane of ideas.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I give you two thumbs up, because I do not have three hands. 😀

 

[Gamer X]

She is a great hypocrite if you ask me;saying that Israel was built by people who didn't
use terrorism but used science is an outright lie,Israel was built by gangs of barbarous
terrorists who killed women and children savagely during an organized ethnic cleansing
which prepared for the declaration of the state of Israel.Also the west is not Utopia when
it comes to the treatment of women.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Frackal

Well fly over there and let them kill you then big boy

This makes no sense at all, why would he knowingly want to stir up trouble when he said it was a hornets nest?

Anyhow, the hornets nest is a poor analogy, more like a bees nest, with very succulent tasty black honey dripping all over.

Because he said "we get what we deserve."

Really? We deserve to be killed? That includes him. He ought to go make good on his proposition let 'em cut his head off

 

[Goosemaster]

She sounds like an idealist who has become an israli sympathizer. The isralies have certainly done their share of killing. Yes, Jewish scientists contributed greatly in the 20th century, but just as with any race, tehy do not speak for the whole of the jewish nation.

Her intent is noble, but her brutishness and ignorance to some truths is a greivous flaw.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
You post a bunch of links from whackjob right wing blogs, freerepublic? jihadwatch? give me a break frontpagemag?? those places are no better then fundamentalist taliban sites.

You really need to get better sources, those websites are batsh1t crazy, like the republican party's own personal national enquirers of the web

What kind of sources would you like the truth to come from so you would believe it?

 

[fjord]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Click Here to view Video

Ok, i just want to see what discussion this video may inspire. IMO, this is one woman who recognizes the situation for what it is, and who was courageous enough to say so on Al Jazeera in front of the entire Muslim world!

at one point in the discussion, the cleric with whom she is debating dimisses her as a "Heretic...not worthy of a response," while she describes herself as a "secular human being."

I believe that if more arab Muslims and non-muslims spoke up as she has done, then we might begin to see some real progress in this "clash of civlizations" that they started.

What do you folks think? Just curious...

I'd be much happier and safer if it were GWB and his advisers that were making the claim of being secular human beings.

Unfortunately that's not the case.