An American solution to a problem

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Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
OP - what does this have to do with "those on the right"? This doesn't seem to be a left vs right issue.

Brought to you by what may be the biggest leftwing nutcase in the forum. Go figure.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
Personally I have long been an advocate of making it illegal for a woman who is on welfare to have kids. If you aren't willing to support yourself you should NOT be allowed to poison the future generations. If you do have a baby while on welfare I would suggest forced sterilization and the baby be taken away from the mother and put up for adoption. Or hell, maybe jsut put the bitch in jail for awhile, if were already paying for her, she might as well be in jail where she cant get into more trouble.

I don't see any reason for sympathy here, she is literally dooming her kids to a shitty existence based on her own greed. I do not feel sorry for someone with no respect for anyone else except themselves.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
I think what is being valued is personal responsibility. Again, if this mother's only recourse to care for her children is porno...shouldn't she take it? You are giving the mother a free pass and saying that society, particularly the right, does not care about these children. Incorrect. We all care about the children (Trick loves the kids), but we can't all worry all the time about every child. The mother is responsible for her children and if she wants to feed them, as a good mother would, she might have to do porn.

I think you're making some large jumps. You are confusing encouragement to procure money/a job with lack of care or concern about the children. And then, you say the right is generally more guilty of not valuing children's welfare. I think everyone on the right and left value these children's welfare. Some people encourage the lady to support her children, others would have the government do it. If these children come close to dying or extreme suffering, there are measures in place to assure their welfare.

It is a leap to say that by encouraging this lady to support her children that we do not have any concern for the welfare of children.

I will not address your moralizing on porn and sex.

You're missing the point I was making IMO, and I don't see how repeating it will help. So on some of your points:

I specifically said the right is far more opposed to the public helping pay for the childrens' needs regardless of the fault of the parents when the alternative is that their needs go unmet - not that they're simply 'not concerned about the children'. In fact the right is more likely to donate to private charity to help them, for example.

You are all for her doing porn to support her kids. How about she sell a kidney to raise funds? Better yet - she accept a ten million dollar offer that they'll get great care, if she'll be in a snuff movie and get killed. It should just be her choice to see her kids are cred for, right, given how she was irresponsible to have them. Society has no moral say in the issue of her being allowed to make those choices. You certainly 'will not address moralizing', right?

Interesting tactic. Taking what I have said and stretching it out to the most absurd circumstances. If you are trying to be argumentative then that is a good exercise. However, if we are going to keep this in the realm of reality we must limit her job choices to legal jobs. Again, I am not going to address the morality behind the legality/illegality of certain jobs. These are the constructs octomom has to operate within.

Now, you have posed that by doing porno to support her family, octomom will do considerable damage to her kids...and harm their welfare. This is an interesting point. By doing nothing and making no money, will she aid her children's welfare?

Yes, having a job is more respectable than receiving a handout. That is the issue at hand; you are infusing morals and "degradation of the sexual act" into this situation.

Is it more respectable to work for a living or receive a handout, even if you have kids?

So you think it is more respectable to be a mother of 14 doing pornography than to receive help from the public?
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
And if to want this lady to get a job rather than rely on government assistance to support her family puts me on the right...well, I've been lumped with worse.

I don't care to hear you complain about your position being distorted (it wasn't) when you distort others' statements this way, equating porn with the same as any other work.

As I've said twice already, the view of her as irresponsible and the preference for her to be able to pay for her childrens' needs with *normal* work is not a left/right issue.

Sometimes people don't have a choice in their line of work.

You have made some powerful insights into the American psyche. Americans would rather see a mother doing porn than receive a handout! What have we become?!?

Or you can view it like this...

Americans would rather see an irrresponsbile mother do a dirty job, like porn, to support her children than receive a handout. Hate to break it to you...but that's been a part of American psyche from Day 1 (fine, maybe it took a few weeks to develop).

You are the one infusing normality into this conversation. A job is a job (and if you're in porn, maybe it's a blowjob!).

So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crap load of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crapl oad of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?

There are some prison guards who might see the logic in your post.

I like your question to him. The financial industry execs might need to get ready, too.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
The woman who chose to have children she can not afford to care for - had six, tried for a seventh and got the fourteenth - has caused massive outrage.

It pits society's interests - however little those on the right give them weight - in the care for innocent children for both selfish (better for society for them to become productive rather than criminals) and humanitarian reasons - versus the resentment that our money goes to pay for something caused by a foolish, selfish decision.

The resentment has been huge; the death threats have not only been many for her, but her publicist resign after receiving many, saying that he has necer seen any situation with this level of outrage, he saw less public outrage over the three mile island accident when he was involved in the PR for that incident.

That's where it stood - many Americans furious and not wanting to pay for the care of the children, but with them needing care.

And now, an option for an American solution to the dilemma has come up - news reports say she has been offered a million dollars to star in a porn video.

There's nothing illegal about it; it's a 'private sector' solution, based on the willingness of many in society to pay for her to let them watch her have sex, as a 'freak act'.

The word depraved is knocking, demanding to be let into the post.

So, let's sum this up:

Woman who wants children too much has 14 and needs money to pay for them; society complains.

Same mother, same desire, same 14 children, same need, but she has sex in a porn video (for her children to learn of later), and gets the aid money that way - no problem.

What's wrong with this picture?
Nothing wrong, she's providing for her kids.

 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
And if to want this lady to get a job rather than rely on government assistance to support her family puts me on the right...well, I've been lumped with worse.

I don't care to hear you complain about your position being distorted (it wasn't) when you distort others' statements this way, equating porn with the same as any other work.

As I've said twice already, the view of her as irresponsible and the preference for her to be able to pay for her childrens' needs with *normal* work is not a left/right issue.

Sometimes people don't have a choice in their line of work.

You have made some powerful insights into the American psyche. Americans would rather see a mother doing porn than receive a handout! What have we become?!?

Or you can view it like this...

Americans would rather see an irrresponsbile mother do a dirty job, like porn, to support her children than receive a handout. Hate to break it to you...but that's been a part of American psyche from Day 1 (fine, maybe it took a few weeks to develop).

You are the one infusing normality into this conversation. A job is a job (and if you're in porn, maybe it's a blowjob!).

So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crapl oad of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?

I think they fairly obvious difference here is that this isn't a "mistake." I believe he said irresponsible behavior.

And stop projecting.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
And if to want this lady to get a job rather than rely on government assistance to support her family puts me on the right...well, I've been lumped with worse.

I don't care to hear you complain about your position being distorted (it wasn't) when you distort others' statements this way, equating porn with the same as any other work.

As I've said twice already, the view of her as irresponsible and the preference for her to be able to pay for her childrens' needs with *normal* work is not a left/right issue.

Sometimes people don't have a choice in their line of work.

You have made some powerful insights into the American psyche. Americans would rather see a mother doing porn than receive a handout! What have we become?!?

Or you can view it like this...

Americans would rather see an irrresponsbile mother do a dirty job, like porn, to support her children than receive a handout. Hate to break it to you...but that's been a part of American psyche from Day 1 (fine, maybe it took a few weeks to develop).

You are the one infusing normality into this conversation. A job is a job (and if you're in porn, maybe it's a blowjob!).

So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crapl oad of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?

I think they fairly obvious difference here is that this isn't a "mistake." I believe he said irresponsible behavior.

And stop projecting.

The problem I have with all the bitching about this woman is that these people assume that they are not burdening society without examining their own lives very carefully. Ok, so she created one big cost with a quick decision. Others create costs over time that add up by many poor decisions. I just think all the finger pointing is a load of bullshit. Get your head out of your ass and quit focusing on one individual when there are much bigger fish to fry.
 

wkabel23

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
2,505
0
0
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
And if to want this lady to get a job rather than rely on government assistance to support her family puts me on the right...well, I've been lumped with worse.

I don't care to hear you complain about your position being distorted (it wasn't) when you distort others' statements this way, equating porn with the same as any other work.

As I've said twice already, the view of her as irresponsible and the preference for her to be able to pay for her childrens' needs with *normal* work is not a left/right issue.

Sometimes people don't have a choice in their line of work.

You have made some powerful insights into the American psyche. Americans would rather see a mother doing porn than receive a handout! What have we become?!?

Or you can view it like this...

Americans would rather see an irrresponsbile mother do a dirty job, like porn, to support her children than receive a handout. Hate to break it to you...but that's been a part of American psyche from Day 1 (fine, maybe it took a few weeks to develop).

You are the one infusing normality into this conversation. A job is a job (and if you're in porn, maybe it's a blowjob!).

So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crapl oad of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?

I think they fairly obvious difference here is that this isn't a "mistake." I believe he said irresponsible behavior.

And stop projecting.

The problem I have with all the bitching about this woman is that these people assume that they are not burdening society without examining their own lives very carefully. Ok, so she created one big cost with a quick decision. Others create costs over time that add up by many poor decisions. I just think all the finger pointing is a load of bullshit. Get your head out of your ass and quit focusing on one individual when there are much bigger fish to fry.

That's a good point. I don't have a problem with this lady using the systems that are in place to support her children. Is she taxing the system? Maybe. But it's in place and she has children and she needs those benefits.

But, this woman is not magically above getting a job (yes, porn is a job...shove your moral judgments) to support her family...IN ADDITION to the resources we as a society offer her.

As for me? Oh i definitely tax the system :D
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
And if to want this lady to get a job rather than rely on government assistance to support her family puts me on the right...well, I've been lumped with worse.

I don't care to hear you complain about your position being distorted (it wasn't) when you distort others' statements this way, equating porn with the same as any other work.

As I've said twice already, the view of her as irresponsible and the preference for her to be able to pay for her childrens' needs with *normal* work is not a left/right issue.

Sometimes people don't have a choice in their line of work.

You have made some powerful insights into the American psyche. Americans would rather see a mother doing porn than receive a handout! What have we become?!?

Or you can view it like this...

Americans would rather see an irrresponsbile mother do a dirty job, like porn, to support her children than receive a handout. Hate to break it to you...but that's been a part of American psyche from Day 1 (fine, maybe it took a few weeks to develop).

You are the one infusing normality into this conversation. A job is a job (and if you're in porn, maybe it's a blowjob!).

So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crapl oad of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?

I think they fairly obvious difference here is that this isn't a "mistake." I believe he said irresponsible behavior.

And stop projecting.

The problem I have with all the bitching about this woman is that these people assume that they are not burdening society without examining their own lives very carefully. Ok, so she created one big cost with a quick decision. Others create costs over time that add up by many poor decisions. I just think all the finger pointing is a load of bullshit. Get your head out of your ass and quit focusing on one individual when there are much bigger fish to fry.

That's a good point. I don't have a problem with this lady using the systems that are in place to support her children. Is she taxing the system? Maybe. But it's in place and she has children and she needs those benefits.

But, this woman is not magically above getting a job (yes, porn is a job...shove your moral judgments) to support her family...IN ADDITION to the resources we as a society offer her.

As for me? Oh i definitely tax the system :D

to clear one thing up, im not against porn...

If the mother chooses to do porn to pay for the kids, the kids will be likely to face a lot of hatred or insults from society. I can imagine how it would have been for a kid in high school if his mother did porno. What is even more sinister about this is that even though a very high number of people watch porn, they would still insult and degrade the mother as well as probably treat the children as if they were worth less because of their mother's decisions.

I'm really bothered by the doube standard in society. People really really want to see each other naked but they also want to reserve the right to degrade each other for doing so. It is really sickening.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: wkabel23
And if to want this lady to get a job rather than rely on government assistance to support her family puts me on the right...well, I've been lumped with worse.

I don't care to hear you complain about your position being distorted (it wasn't) when you distort others' statements this way, equating porn with the same as any other work.

As I've said twice already, the view of her as irresponsible and the preference for her to be able to pay for her childrens' needs with *normal* work is not a left/right issue.

Sometimes people don't have a choice in their line of work.

You have made some powerful insights into the American psyche. Americans would rather see a mother doing porn than receive a handout! What have we become?!?

Or you can view it like this...

Americans would rather see an irrresponsbile mother do a dirty job, like porn, to support her children than receive a handout. Hate to break it to you...but that's been a part of American psyche from Day 1 (fine, maybe it took a few weeks to develop).

You are the one infusing normality into this conversation. A job is a job (and if you're in porn, maybe it's a blowjob!).

So if you make a mistake that costs the public a crapl oad of money, you will start sucking off men to make the cash back?

I think they fairly obvious difference here is that this isn't a "mistake." I believe he said irresponsible behavior.

And stop projecting.

The problem I have with all the bitching about this woman is that these people assume that they are not burdening society without examining their own lives very carefully. Ok, so she created one big cost with a quick decision. Others create costs over time that add up by many poor decisions. I just think all the finger pointing is a load of bullshit. Get your head out of your ass and quit focusing on one individual when there are much bigger fish to fry.

I can agree with that... this just happens to make for an easy target I guess. Tabloid-esque stories thrive.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: cwjerome
I think they fairly obvious difference here is that this isn't a "mistake." I believe he said irresponsible behavior.

And stop projecting.

The problem I have with all the bitching about this woman is that these people assume that they are not burdening society without examining their own lives very carefully. Ok, so she created one big cost with a quick decision. Others create costs over time that add up by many poor decisions. I just think all the finger pointing is a load of bullshit. Get your head out of your ass and quit focusing on one individual when there are much bigger fish to fry.

'Mistake' is not exclusive from 'irresponsible behavior'. In fact they're pretty highly correlated.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: Drako
I'm assuming this post is supposed to be some kind of joke?

That says nothing but where your reading comprehension is. Like taking a dog to Shakespeare, the dog's review reads, 'bad food, not allowed to bark, it sucked.'