Amtrak to build build New York-New Jersey tunnel link

[Narmer]

Interesting development. My only question is, why didn't they talk with the people working on the Hudson tunnel project in order to save money?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12385554

Amtrak $13.5bn tunnel to link New York and New Jersey

The rail connection could boost the New Jersey economy
US rail operator Amtrak has announced plans for a $13.5bn (£8.4bn) rail project to connect New York City and New Jersey.
The company said it would spend $50m on preliminary engineering and design work on two tunnels under the Hudson River.
New York and New Jersey states, as well as local authorities, could contribute further funds, Amtrak said.
A similar project was cancelled by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie last year for being too expensive.
The project could be completed by 2020, Amtrak said.
"The two new trans-Hudson tunnels envisioned under this plan will provide long-sought, peak period operational capacity and is an investment that will improve transportation flexibility and reliability for decades to come," the company said.
New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg said: "The Gateway Project is a vision for our future that will shorten commutes, create jobs, increase property values and grow New Jersey's economy".

 

[bfdd]

Because then they would have to deal with more government bureaucratic bullshit most likely.

 

[nageov3t]

given how much subsidies go to Amtrack as it is, what's the difference between this and the Federal government just doing it themselves?

not that I'm complaining, but I don't really see how it will shorten commutes, create jobs, or increase property values either, unless this also involves building new train stops in areas that don't currently have local service. I don't commute into Manhattan daily, but I get off the train one stop before the river. my commute has never been lengthened because the train was at capacity and I couldn't get on.

 

[dmcowen674]

given how much subsidies go to Amtrack as it is, what's the difference between this and the Federal government just doing it themselves?

not that I'm complaining, but I don't really see how it will shorten commutes, create jobs, or increase property values either, unless this also involves building new train stops in areas that don't currently have local service. I don't commute into Manhattan daily, but I get off the train one stop before the river. my commute has never been lengthened because the train was at capacity and I couldn't get on.

True, it's not needed

This is strictly a Union deal to give them jobs where there normally wouldn't be any.

 

[DesiPower]

trains are never a profitable business, its always a state subsidized facility that lets ppl move more easily, that's the reason why you will find them in abundance in socialist and communist countries. In a capitalist economy like ours it has no place, especially when you are bankrupt.

 

[nageov3t]

trains are never a profitable business, its always a state subsidized facility that lets ppl move more easily, that's the reason why you will find them in abundance in socialist and communist countries. In a capitalist economy like ours it has no place, especially when you are bankrupt.

try driving around NYC, much less through it, during rush hour and report back

I used to work in a horribly inconvenient place right outside of the Lincoln Tunnel that, at the time, wasn't accessible by mass transit. it was ~5 miles from my house and took about an hour to drive to.

 

[DesiPower]

try driving around NYC, much less through it, during rush hour and report back

I used to work in a horribly inconvenient place right outside of the Lincoln Tunnel that, at the time, wasn't accessible by mass transit. it was ~5 miles from my house and took about an hour to drive to.

So you want a bankrupt nation to pay for your comfort?

 

[JSt0rm]

If you retards knew anything about this issue then you would know that this section of Amtrak is very profitable. From washington, dc to newyork and up to boston is all $$$

 

[CycloWizard]

trains are never a profitable business, its always a state subsidized facility that lets ppl move more easily, that's the reason why you will find them in abundance in socialist and communist countries. In a capitalist economy like ours it has no place, especially when you are bankrupt.

Really?

 

[DesiPower]

If you retards knew anything about this issue then you would know that this section of Amtrak is very profitable. From washington, dc to newyork and up to boston is all $$$

so are some of the major subway routes in NYC, but somehow magically they run at a loss, please do enlighten us with some figures...

 

[nageov3t]

So you want a bankrupt nation to pay for your comfort?

NJ and NY are 50th and 42nd respectively in terms of leaching off of other states, so fuck it. give us some share of the pork for once.

 

[DesiPower]

NJ and NY are 50th and 42nd respectively in terms of leaching off of other states, so fuck it. give us some share of the pork for once.

14bil in Pork? are you kiddin me? you already have the subway system. What the combines GDP btw?

 

[JSt0rm]

so are some of the major subway routes in NYC, but somehow magically they run at a loss, please do enlighten us with some figures...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101300731.html

In 2004 the northeast corridor took in 600 million. Amtraks entire budget from the government for the entire united states is 550 million. Spinning off the northeast corridor will allow amtrak to spend most of its money upgrading the rest of the system. As it is now they spend 250 million per year on the northeast corridor. And why shouldnt they? It actually makes money.

 

[DesiPower]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101300731.html

In 2004 the northeast corridor took in 600 million. Amtraks entire budget from the government for the entire united states is 550 million. Spinning off the northeast corridor will allow amtrak to spend most of its money upgrading the rest of the system. As it is now they spend 250 million per year on the northeast corridor. And why shouldnt they? It actually makes money.

OK fair enough, it makes enough money to support itself, but it still will cost 14 billion to create, you guys have roads, railways, waterways... sooo much already create dy the govt, how much more do you want, its not like it will pay for itself in 5 or 10 years...

As the article suggests, lets have a spinoff and then let it create its one expansion...

 

[JSt0rm]

well if they increase ridership by 20% that is 120 million more per year. Lets say its 300million to maintain the system. Thats a profit of 420 million per year. I think a 14 billion dollar investment with a return like that isnt all that bad is it? And think of the butterfly effect.

 

[K1052]

trains are never a profitable business, its always a state subsidized facility that lets ppl move more easily, that's the reason why you will find them in abundance in socialist and communist countries. In a capitalist economy like ours it has no place, especially when you are bankrupt.

Government programs, namely massive road and airport construction, wiped out the passenger rail business...ran by private companies. Ironically the government required the rail companies to maintain service even though it was drowning them financially. Eventually the gov formed a new entity to unburden the rail companies before they all went out of business. That's how Amtrak came to be.

 

[K1052]

The Hudson Tunnels and the Portal Bridge (just west of existing tunnels) are the main bottlenecks for the NEC. The tunnels are over 100 years old and are at capacity with NJT and Amtrak trains. No additional service can be added by either agency. The Portal Bridge is past it's useful life, seriously unreliable, and can't be fixed...it must be replaced.

Amtrak was planning this set of tunnels regardless of the failed NJT project. One of the huge benefits of the NJT ARC project would have been that the new tunnels could have been extended to Grand Central, which is much closer to the present jobs center in Midtown.

 

[DrPizza]

It's nice to see long term thinking instead of short term thinking.

 

[ayabe]

Who cares if the subway or trains aren't profitable? They allow access to other businesses which are profitable, when all is said and done it's a huge win for the city economy.

The same is true of most infrastructure projects.

 

[bfdd]

NJ and NY are 50th and 42nd respectively in terms of leaching off of other states, so fuck it. give us some share of the pork for once.

NY already get's like 4 x's the amount for mentally ill patients as the next biggest state. Is it any wonder why NY locks up the most mentally ill patients? We should stop giving anyone money until they can balance their budget. This includes our Federal Government.

 

[JSt0rm]

NY already get's like 4 x's the amount for mentally ill patients as the next biggest state. Is it any wonder why NY locks up the most mentally ill patients? We should stop giving anyone money until they can balance their budget. This includes our Federal Government.

deflect! deflect!

Start a thread about that issue if you want. This thread is about Amtrak you ideological miscreant.

 

[kranky]

trains are never a profitable business, its always a state subsidized facility that lets ppl move more easily, that's the reason why you will find them in abundance in socialist and communist countries. In a capitalist economy like ours it has no place, especially when you are bankrupt.

If you are going to advocate against goverment support of rail transit, don't forget to campaign against goverment roadbuilding and airports also.

 

[Fear No Evil]

NJ and NY are 50th and 42nd respectively in terms of leaching off of other states, so fuck it. give us some share of the pork for once.

You are also probably #1 and #2 in the most liberal states. You VOTE in leaders who campaign on screwing you. You should be proud that you are paying your fair share and giving to the poor.

 

[Steeplerot]

So you want a bankrupt nation to pay for your comfort?

In areas like NYC or San Francisco people do not drive, or sometimes have never even driven a car in their lives.

I will turn this around for car-driving suburbanites, why should we pay for low population's automobile infrastructure just so people can drive alone like the big entitled socialists they are with a car all to themselves?



The free ride is over suburban automobile mooches, take the bus or walk! Oh, you moved somewhere 40 miles from work? Well that was a dumbass personal choice huh? Why should WE pay for your stupid choices and entitlement mindset that you should be able to pick your nose in peace all the way to work on our public funded roads?

Move to a place with real transit infrastructure or take the government tit from your mouth auto-driving suburbanites, you are choking on your own hypocricy.

Every paved road should get a toll, THEN lets see you guys talk this Automobile=USA freedom, you will realize having a car is a privilege and you have been getting a free ride.

Desi, if anything this just shows how little life experience you have with living in the the USA when you pull the car entitlement mentality, you cannot viably use a automobile in some areas to get around. It would take you hours to get a few dozen blocks in manhattan on some days. Blocks...like the distance you guys go to the 7-11 out there. Now imagine 100's of thousands of people going to 7-11 24/7. Your car rant starts looking really dumb surface streets are not even in the picture to git 'er done.

Really, what freedom are you giving up? The bs long drive, tired in the morning with a long day ahead to focus on, yet driving a freeway with the stress at 65-75mph for long periods is a good idea to start your day?

No way, I would much rather get on a train, chill on my laptop on the way to work, maybe having breakfast at the diner or socializing with fellow workers you see day-to-day on your commute.

What do automobile suburban folks do? stress out over traffic and listen to angry radio that makes you hate your fellow man. No wonder middle america are such detached angry sociopathic basket-cases who think everyone is out to get them!

 

[Thump553]

I'm all for mass transit, especially in congested urban areas, but I don't see why NJ should get a free ride on this. A project was already in place calling for NJ to pay a portion. A project which took years to set up and was on the eve of starting construction. Now we are supposed to start over with the fed paying the entire bill in order not to offend NJ's current governor's small government philosophy? Fuck'em, they made their bed let them lie in it.

If Amtrack wants to approve the access out of NYC towards CT, I'm all for it and we will pay our fair share-and enjoy the increased business.