Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

[Ottonomous]

How much is the Samsung 7nm EUV process expected to provide in terms of gains?
How will the RTX components be scaled/developed?
Any major architectural enhancements expected?
Will VRAM be bumped to 16/12/12 for the top three?
Will there be further fragmentation in the lineup? (Keeping turing at cheaper prices, while offering 'beefed up RTX' options at the top?)
Will the top card be capable of >4K60, at least 90?
Would Nvidia ever consider an HBM implementation in the gaming lineup?
Will Nvidia introduce new proprietary technologies again?

Sorry if imprudent/uncalled for, just interested in the forum member's thoughts.

 

[Justinus]

I think he is implying that nvidia would flood the market with 3060 cards to counter the AMD 6600 when it is released in August.

Every sku of every card continues to sell out near immediately to this day. There's no need for nvidia to stockpile and wait, the 6600 will sell out immediately at launch just like the 3080ti and 3070ti and 3060 did, and the market landscape will still be unchanged.

It's not like the market is in a normal position right now and nvidia is strategically stockpiling to launch a new competing product the day before.

 

[gdansk]

I think he is implying that nvidia would flood the market with 3060 cards to counter the AMD 6600 when it is released in August.

Yes. That's an extremely dubious claim to me. Why not sell a 3060 now? What's the advantage of delaying the sale a few weeks when there will be more competition? Any gamer buying a 3060 now would be one less buyer interested in the 6600 series regardless.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I think he is implying that nvidia would flood the market with 3060 cards to counter the AMD 6600 when it is released in August.

- Right, but NV could pump out those cards now and actually sell them to people, which would take those people off the market for the 6600XT. Why wait until people have a choice?

Edit: Wow, Hans just got kicked off Nakatomi Plaza for that one...

 

[amenx]

MLID sourced story, time to move on.

 

[Glo.]

I don't buy it. What company would decide to increase their inventory when they could immediately sell them instead...

3060 Super, and 3060 6 GB released. Thats why they may be stockpiling those GPUs.

 

[Mopetar]

Why stockpile though if you can immediately sell them? It isn't as though AMD can make 3060's stop selling well above MSRP and Nvidia is always free to start selling a different version of the card later in response to new AMD products.

Current market price is essentially determined by ETH hashrates. I don't see Navi 23 cards upsetting that in any meaningful way.

 

[blckgrffn]

Why stockpile though if you can immediately sell them? It isn't as though AMD can make 3060's stop selling well above MSRP and Nvidia is always free to start selling a different version of the card later in response to new AMD products.

Current market price is essentially determined by ETH hashrates. I don't see Navi 23 cards upsetting that in any meaningful way.

I think the point being is that they "are stockpiling" for a launch of new SKUs and this is probably just an effort to have some (more than 10, lol) available at launch at retailers.

With imports all messed up right now (please believe me when I say my freight experiences right now are worse than they were a year ago and about 3-4x more expensive) they may need a multi week window to get everything in place with all vendors and partners.

 

[jpiniero]

3060 Super, and 3060 6 GB released. Thats why they may be stockpiling those GPUs.

The 3060 is only slightly cut. Unless they are going to release a more cut down GA104 it's not going to make much sense to do another model there. The 3060 6 GB does make sense.

 

[Glo.]

The 3060 is only slightly cut. Unless they are going to release a more cut down GA104 it's not going to make much sense to do another model there. The 3060 6 GB does make sense.

3060 - full die with 12 GB VRAM and 329$ price tag, 3060 6 GB - replacing the 12 GB VRAM model with the same die, and 6 GB VRAM, for less money.

 

[jpiniero]

3060 - full die with 12 GB VRAM and 329$ price tag, 3060 6 GB - replacing the 12 GB VRAM model with the same die, and 6 GB VRAM, for less money.

They wouldn't do that. If there's a 3060 6 GB it will be further cut or the same as the 12 GB. If they are going to release a full GA106 that would be later.

 

[gdansk]

Stockpiling a new SKU would make some sense. But I didn't see that mentioned in the article. And watching the video he says launching "more of these and 3060 Tis" where he is pointing to a 12GB RTX 3060.

 

[Glo.]

They wouldn't do that. If there's a 3060 6 GB it will be further cut or the same as the 12 GB. If they are going to release a full GA106 that would be later.

We'll see. Full die 3060 should be close to 6600XT in performance, but will lose in efficiency.

 

[jpiniero]

We'll see. Full die 3060 should be close to 6600XT in performance, but will lose in efficiency.

6600 XT's "MSRP" is probably going to be closer to the 3060 Ti's $399. My guess is $379 given that the 6700 XT's is $479.

I suppose they could do a 3060 Super but it would be more than $329. To me it seems too crowded to add another SKU right now. A full GA106 would only be like 5% faster.

 

[Glo.]

6600 XT's "MSRP" is probably going to be closer to the 3060 Ti's $399. My guess is $379 given that the 6700 XT's is $479.

I suppose they could do a 3060 Super but it would be more than $329. To me it seems too crowded to add another SKU right now. A full GA106 would only be like 5% faster.

Stockpiling the chips suggests that there would not be another SKU added.

They would release 3060 Super, kill the 12 GB non-super variant, and release the same die with 6 GB VRAM. And they would have only two GPUs in this pricer point: 3060 Super 12 GB with full die, 3060 6 GB with cut down die, with the same SM count as current 12 GB VRAM die.

 

[Aikouka]

I managed to get my hands on a Gigabyte Aorus 3080, but honestly... I'm not sure if I really like it. The thing is that I'm not really the type of gamer/enthusiast that wants to eke out the last FPS at the cost of massive power increases. Especially since we're already talking about the high-end (i.e. usually decent enough framerates), I'm fine with "normal performance". In the past, I'd normally buy the fancier cards (ASUS Strix, etc.) because their coolers were usually better than stock, which (usually) meant better thermals and lower noise. I didn't notice a ton with this card until I was playing Last Epoch (a Diablo-style ARPG), and I ran into the dreaded power fault protection (i.e. black screens + fans at 100%). That was likely due to leaving the card on the OC BIOS (I meant to change that) and that I've only got a 760W PSU (Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium). I actually ordered a larger, 1000W PSU (same type, just larger capacity) to avoid any issues in the future.

Although, after switching to the Silent mode, I haven't seen any issues yet. However, when playing Last Epoch earlier today, I noticed one sign that I recalled hearing before the screens went out last time: a rather high fan RPM. I turned on HWiNFO to find that my fans were running at about 70-80% and the GPU was in the high 70's... playing Last Epoch. (To note, I do have my frames limited in the game when in and out of focus.) I installed MSI Afterburner, and I set the power target to 90%, and it did seem to help quite a bit.

Overall, I just find the entire concept of it frustrating. Why push a card so far for so little gain? I figured that the huge heatsink on this card would lead to some nice temperatures, but the temperatures are pretty bad for how much cooling potential this should have.

 

[maddie]

I managed to get my hands on a Gigabyte Aorus 3080, but honestly... I'm not sure if I really like it. The thing is that I'm not really the type of gamer/enthusiast that wants to eke out the last FPS at the cost of massive power increases. Especially since we're already talking about the high-end (i.e. usually decent enough framerates), I'm fine with "normal performance". In the past, I'd normally buy the fancier cards (ASUS Strix, etc.) because their coolers were usually better than stock, which (usually) meant better thermals and lower noise. I didn't notice a ton with this card until I was playing Last Epoch (a Diablo-style ARPG), and I ran into the dreaded power fault protection (i.e. black screens + fans at 100%). That was likely due to leaving the card on the OC BIOS (I meant to change that) and that I've only got a 760W PSU (Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium). I actually ordered a larger, 1000W PSU (same type, just larger capacity) to avoid any issues in the future.

Although, after switching to the Silent mode, I haven't seen any issues yet. However, when playing Last Epoch earlier today, I noticed one sign that I recalled hearing before the screens went out last time: a rather high fan RPM. I turned on HWiNFO to find that my fans were running at about 70-80% and the GPU was in the high 70's... playing Last Epoch. (To note, I do have my frames limited in the game when in and out of focus.) I installed MSI Afterburner, and I set the power target to 90%, and it did seem to help quite a bit.

Overall, I just find the entire concept of it frustrating. Why push a card so far for so little gain? I figured that the huge heatsink on this card would lead to some nice temperatures, but the temperatures are pretty bad for how much cooling potential this should have.

If the rumors of next gen are true, then start holding back the 'tears' from now, you'll need them.

 

[CP5670]

I managed to get my hands on a Gigabyte Aorus 3080, but honestly... I'm not sure if I really like it. The thing is that I'm not really the type of gamer/enthusiast that wants to eke out the last FPS at the cost of massive power increases. Especially since we're already talking about the high-end (i.e. usually decent enough framerates), I'm fine with "normal performance". In the past, I'd normally buy the fancier cards (ASUS Strix, etc.) because their coolers were usually better than stock, which (usually) meant better thermals and lower noise. I didn't notice a ton with this card until I was playing Last Epoch (a Diablo-style ARPG), and I ran into the dreaded power fault protection (i.e. black screens + fans at 100%). That was likely due to leaving the card on the OC BIOS (I meant to change that) and that I've only got a 760W PSU (Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium). I actually ordered a larger, 1000W PSU (same type, just larger capacity) to avoid any issues in the future.

Although, after switching to the Silent mode, I haven't seen any issues yet. However, when playing Last Epoch earlier today, I noticed one sign that I recalled hearing before the screens went out last time: a rather high fan RPM. I turned on HWiNFO to find that my fans were running at about 70-80% and the GPU was in the high 70's... playing Last Epoch. (To note, I do have my frames limited in the game when in and out of focus.) I installed MSI Afterburner, and I set the power target to 90%, and it did seem to help quite a bit.

Overall, I just find the entire concept of it frustrating. Why push a card so far for so little gain? I figured that the huge heatsink on this card would lead to some nice temperatures, but the temperatures are pretty bad for how much cooling potential this should have.

The card is likely running at a higher voltage and power limit on the OC bios. The "silent" bios probably puts it on stock voltage and power limit, and shouldn't need to have the power limit reduced further. The high 70s temperatures are normal, although the same as the cheaper AIB models. It's interesting that huge 4 slot cooler doesn't help at all. Not a great design by gigabyte.

 

[amenx]

Have seen a few ppl undervolt the 3080 and shave off up to a 100w in power draw while retaining 95% of the performance. I also dont like the upward trend in power draw just to eke out minimal performance gains. But I guess manufacturers will resort to that just to be slightly ahead of the competition.

 

[Borealis7]

I also dont like the upward trend in power draw just to eke out minimal performance gains.

i wouldn't call the 3080 being twice as fast as the 1080 (2 generations apart) - "minimal gains".
in fact perf/Watt has improved over the years, but it's just as you said, cards draw more power on average than previous generations in absolute values and the trend is likely to continue.

(data source: techpowerup)

 

[amenx]

i wouldn't call the 3080 being twice as fast as the 1080 (2 generations apart) - "minimal gains".
in fact perf/Watt has improved over the years, but it's just as you said, cards draw more power on average than previous generations in absolute values and the trend is likely to continue.

(data source: techpowerup)

I wasnt referring to performance gains between generations, but rather to get that extra 5% perf thru extra power draw: since a 3080 can roughly save 100w with undervolting but still keep 95% of its performance. Frankly I think it was originally intended to use lower power, but Nvidia cranked it up to gain a slight edge over RDNA2. They want the perf crown at all costs and power draw be damned.

 

[KompuKare]

I wasnt referring to performance gains between generations, but rather to get that extra 5% perf thru extra power draw: since a 3080 can roughly save 100w with undervolting but still keep 95% of its performance. Frankly I think it was originally intended to use lower power, but Nvidia cranked it up to gain a slight edge over RDNA2. They want the perf crown at all costs and power draw be damned.

My Google skills fail me, but has anyone compiled a decent list of what undervolting and underclocking can achieve?
By decent list I mean 3090, 3089, 3070, 3060, 6900, 6800, 6700 etc, at various clocks.
While a 3080 is easy outside my comfort zone in terms of card prices, saving 100W for 5% performance loss is just crazy, and very interesting from a tech point of view.
In a few years when (if) prices have recovered and people are offloading their old cards, I might grab one and it would be nice to know when fully undervolted would a 3080, or 6800, or even 6700 be the efficiency champion.

 

[jpiniero]

While a 3080 is easy outside my comfort zone in terms of card prices, saving 100W for 5% performance loss is just crazy, and very interesting from a tech point of view.
In a few years when (if) prices have recovered and people are offloading their old cards, I might grab one and it would be nice to know when fully undervolted would a 3080, or 6800, or even 6700 be the efficiency champion.

SIlicon does degrade; and given that it's more likely that the old cards would be used for mining... kind of have a feeling that those cards would no longer be stable with undervolting.

 

[blckgrffn]

My Google skills fail me, but has anyone compiled a decent list of what undervolting and underclocking can achieve?
By decent list I mean 3090, 3089, 3070, 3060, 6900, 6800, 6700 etc, at various clocks.
While a 3080 is easy outside my comfort zone in terms of card prices, saving 100W for 5% performance loss is just crazy, and very interesting from a tech point of view.
In a few years when (if) prices have recovered and people are offloading their old cards, I might grab one and it would be nice to know when fully undervolted would a 3080, or 6800, or even 6700 be the efficiency champion.

Yeah it's tough because the market hoovers up whatever is made, we haven't seen any take on a "3080 Nano" card where they tune it for ~200W or something for SFF use. Presumably some combination of clock speeds and voltages could be combined in that case and we'd probably all think the perf/watt was great.

Everyone want's perf at all costs though, it seems. When you pay $1K+ you want fast.

I still remember how much my buddies office heated up after we swapped the 580 for the 3080 and how his case just got really warm to the touch very quickly in Warzone. I remember my 290X and as long as that card served me well, I am just not personally in a hurry to rush back to that.

 

[Aikouka]

The card is likely running at a higher voltage and power limit on the OC bios. The "silent" bios probably puts it on stock voltage and power limit, and shouldn't need to have the power limit reduced further. The high 70s temperatures are normal, although the same as the cheaper AIB models. It's interesting that huge 4 slot cooler doesn't help at all. Not a great design by gigabyte.

That was my guess after I realized that I had left it on the OC mode when I ran into the dreaded black screen problem. (I guess I'm lucky it didn't fall into the same state as some of those that were playing New World saw!) I switched it to the Silent mode after that, which is where I performed most of my checks via HWiNFO and made adjustments either via MSI Afterburner or Gigabyte's tool. I didn't even consider checking the values prior to switching the BIOS because I had rather high expectations for such a beefy cooler.

It was really a mix of the temperatures and the fan speed, which I believe was around 70%+, that threw me for a loop. I've ended up purchasing a few different 30-series cards over the past few weeks to replace my older cards. As a result, I've picked up a 3060 Ti (FE), 3070 (EVGA), and the aforementioned 3080 (Gigabyte). I've sold off a few cards as I've replaced them which has included a 2080 Ti (EVGA), 1080 Ti (ASUS), 1080 Ti (ASUS), and a 1080 Ti (FE). Part of what I do when selling these cards is run a simple Heaven benchmark, and I'll usually monitor temperatures while running it. The only GPU that ran with higher temperatures than my 3080 is the 1080 Ti FE with its blower style. Every other card ran around 65-72C, which is quite substantial when you consider that my 2080 Ti was only a two-fan, two-slot card! (The ASUS Strix 1080 Ti cards were triple-fan, two-slot cards.) I also used the 3060 Ti in my main machine until I got the 3080, and I never had a problem with it playing the same game (Last Epoch).

Even after switching to the Silent BIOS, I did go through and implement a power limit of 85%. This did result in a temperature of about 70C in Last Epoch, but that was with the game at Medium settings at 2560x1440. The temperature reduction was likely due to lower GPU usage as simply raising the game to the HIgh preset saw a quick increase of 2C. What bugs me about this is that I don't like being tethered to aftermarket tools to have to properly reign in my card's power consumption and its resulting heat output. So, as a result, I've already purchased a GPU block for the Gigabyte card, and I'll take a simple approach by using one of my existing EKWB MLC Phoenix rad/pump/res combos to essentially add a giant AIO onto the GPU. EKWB actually sold this sort of setup for Radeon cards, but without the quick disconnects; however, they've discontinued it. This won't really stop the higher power usage, but it will help me keep noise and temperatures down.

Ultimately, you can say that I failed to really place the proper emphasis on the 3080's higher TDP of 320W vs. 250W for the 1080 Ti and 2080 Ti. (3060 Ti = 180W, 3070 = 220W.)

i wouldn't call the 3080 being twice as fast as the 1080 (2 generations apart) - "minimal gains".
in fact perf/Watt has improved over the years, but it's just as you said, cards draw more power on average than previous generations in absolute values and the trend is likely to continue.

My initial complaint in this regard is that it seems like the 3080 is already close to its performance ceiling, and as a result, it ends up consuming a good chunk of power for little gain. The talk of "minimal gains" is really about the 3080 vs. a 3080 with a reduced power target rather than the 3080 versus a previous generation.

 

[amenx]

My Google skills fail me, but has anyone compiled a decent list of what undervolting and underclocking can achieve?
By decent list I mean 3090, 3089, 3070, 3060, 6900, 6800, 6700 etc, at various clocks.
While a 3080 is easy outside my comfort zone in terms of card prices, saving 100W for 5% performance loss is just crazy, and very interesting from a tech point of view.
In a few years when (if) prices have recovered and people are offloading their old cards, I might grab one and it would be nice to know when fully undervolted would a 3080, or 6800, or even 6700 be the efficiency champion.

Undervolting Ampere, GeForce RTX 3080 Hidden Efficiency Potential?

The GeForce RTX 3080 has rocked the world with the fastest flagship performance to date, but can we tame it with undervolting?

wccftech.com

Many other sources on YT and forums with similar results, mostly on the 3080 since lesser cards did not have excess power draw.