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Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

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O

Ottonomous

Senior member
How much is the Samsung 7nm EUV process expected to provide in terms of gains?
How will the RTX components be scaled/developed?
Any major architectural enhancements expected?
Will VRAM be bumped to 16/12/12 for the top three?
Will there be further fragmentation in the lineup? (Keeping turing at cheaper prices, while offering 'beefed up RTX' options at the top?)
Will the top card be capable of >4K60, at least 90?
Would Nvidia ever consider an HBM implementation in the gaming lineup?
Will Nvidia introduce new proprietary technologies again?

Sorry if imprudent/uncalled for, just interested in the forum member's thoughts.
 
raghu78 said:
If Nvidia thinks they can continue to increase GPU prices with Ampere they are going to be in for a rude awakening. A 12 TF Xbox Series X with 8 Zen2 cores at 3.66 Ghz (with SMT) is going to provide better gaming perf than a RTX 3060 and maybe even match a RTX 3070 if we assume the current Ampere rumours are true. At a rumoured price of $500 Series X is going to provide a level of CPU and GPU performance unseen in a game console. Then comes the actual competition with RDNA2 on PC which is going to be aggressive given what we know about RDNA2 area and power efficiency (from the claimed 1x GPU power draw vs Xbox One X).
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That will effect both companies not just Nvidia. It will be $500 console vs whatever in that bracket. Buyers will need to make a decision overall and it comes down to more than just the price of a console vs a GPU. PC gaming Vs Console which ecosystem/ Total cost of ownership of all hardware, pandemic etc etc there are lots of unknowns. For a buyer not just a case of $xxx GPU Vs $xxx Console.
FYI speaking of rumors.... 3060 cheaper than an Xbox getting 2080S performance 😉 (apparently) Also for $500 I might be able to get a 3070Ti and get 2080Ti performance in rasterization and better RT performance.
 
Konan said:
That will effect both companies not just Nvidia. It will be $500 console vs whatever in that bracket. Buyers will need to make a decision overall and it comes down to more than just the price of a console vs a GPU. PC gaming Vs Console which ecosystem/ Total cost of ownership of all hardware, pandemic etc etc there are lots of unknowns. For a buyer not just a case of $xxx GPU Vs $xxx Console.
FYI speaking of rumors.... 3060 cheaper than an Xbox getting 2080S performance 😉 (apparently) Also for $500 I might be able to get a 3070Ti and get 2080Ti performance in rasterization and better RT performance.
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Consoles affect two things. GPUs up to 500$, and 500$ PC's.
 
Glo. said:
Consoles affect two things. GPUs up to 500$, and 500$ PC's.
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Might affect GPUs a little, but I don't see people looking to buy $500 PC would be in same bracket of people who looks to purchase console at $500. For $500, it is bargain for a PC, but pretty expensive for a console.
 
Konan said:
That will effect both companies not just Nvidia. It will be $500 console vs whatever in that bracket. Buyers will need to make a decision overall and it comes down to more than just the price of a console vs a GPU. PC gaming Vs Console which ecosystem/ Total cost of ownership of all hardware, pandemic etc etc there are lots of unknowns. For a buyer not just a case of $xxx GPU Vs $xxx Console.
FYI speaking of rumors.... 3060 cheaper than an Xbox getting 2080S performance 😉 (apparently) Also for $500 I might be able to get a 3070Ti and get 2080Ti performance in rasterization and better RT performance.
Click to expand...

- I've actually wondered if AMD will have some sort of weird non-compete in place around the console price bracket so they offer tangibly worse performance for the same price. They would essentially be competing with themselves in that respect.

Alternatively launch the $800+ cards, then just wait until it makes sense to launch something cheaper.

I'm sure the consoles are eating into a truckload of that 7nm capacity and a sale to MS or Sony is a sure thing when put against AMD's shaky standing in the dgpu/DIY community.

Sorta wrong thread, but all this stuff converges together as we get closer to launch.
 
JasonLD said:
Might affect GPUs a little, but I don't see people looking to buy $500 PC would be in same bracket of people who looks to purchase console at $500. For $500, it is bargain for a PC, but pretty expensive for a console.
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Which is the whole point.


You either have a choice between Ryzen 3 3300X+RX 5500 XT/GTX 1650 Super PC or a highest end possible console.
 
Many people who are not longtime gamers no longer use desktops at all, so it's not just a matter of buying the video card for games. They will need a whole PC, and even then a Dell/HP/etc. build tends to be cheaper these days than building your own. I think consoles make more sense for a lot of people now, except for people like me who have been PC gaming for decades and have a huge existing library of games and mods.
 
Glo. said:
Consoles affect two things. GPUs up to 500$, and 500$ PC's.
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I think consoles may also affect GPU sales that are priced at over $1000 when people are used to paying $6-700 for a proper upgrade and have been waiting for 3 years. If they are left without an upgrade path yet again simply because Nvidia insists on yanking them up to a higher price bracket, then I'd expect a lot of those people to skip Ampere completely and buy something else instead.
 
moonbogg said:
Which was already too expensive. Just because terrible pricing matches previously terrible pricing does not justify currently speculated terrible pricing. X70 should be $3-400, Ti or not.
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If you really believe prices going down, you will be up for a rude awakening. It should be clear by now why prices are as they are and there is no way going back. In particular companies will not make prices based on what YOU think they should be.
 
Glo. said:
Which is the whole point.


You either have a choice between Ryzen 3 3300X+RX 5500 XT/GTX 1650 Super PC or a highest end possible console.
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No, that is not the point.
People who are willing to spend $500 on consoles (early adopters) isn't going to be people who will be spending just $500 on PCs.
 
Thala said:
If you really believe prices going down, you will be up for a rude awakening. It should be clear by now why prices are as they are and there is no way going back. In particular companies will not make prices based on what YOU think they should be.
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High prices are what I expect. Fair prices are what would surprise me. If they announce prices beyond $1000 for the high-end yet again, I look forward to the responses. If they do that, they are setting themselves up to get absolutely steamrolled the instant someone provides a good alternative. Legions of pissed off customers tend to develop a kind of hive-mind, and they have demonstrated their ability to act in unison regarding their brand choice and purchasing decisions. The collective behavior is reinforced by reviewers, forum users, gamers online, streamers, and people on social media lamenting the lack of performance improvements and absurdly high prices. Most of all, the continual reduction in value proposition with each generation of hardware seems to be what changes the collective behavior of a customer base. We've seen it recently and you know what I'm referring to unless you've been living under a rock. The results were pretty significant as the almost instant shift in mindshare was shocking.
 
JasonLD said:
No, that is not the point.
People who are willing to spend $500 on consoles (early adopters) isn't going to be people who will be spending just $500 on PCs.
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Still does not change the fact that if you have an option of spending 500$ on gaming device, Console is your best option.

Even if we assume that for 500$ you can get R3 3300X+ RTX 2060/RX 5600 XT performance levels, with next gen hardware, its still is completely trashed by both PS5 and Xbox Series X.

And yes, plenty of people will have to make this decision. Do they pick a PC, or do they get a console, even if they have only 500$ to spend.
 
MrTeal said:
$800 would be tough to swallow for the 3080 if that's MSRP and not FE pricing. It wouldn't be surprising, but I wouldn't be rushing out the door to replace my 1080 Ti at that price if it is a small uplift over the 2080 Ti.
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Sell your 1080Ti today for $500, give $300 and buy RTX3080 at $800 day one. You get ~50% higher performance in Raster + RT for only $300, I will say thats a very nice upgrade 😉
 
moonbogg said:
High prices are what I expect. Fair prices are what would surprise me. If they announce prices beyond $1000 for the high-end yet again, I look forward to the responses. If they do that, they are setting themselves up to get absolutely steamrolled the instant someone provides a good alternative. Legions of pissed off customers tend to develop a kind of hive-mind, and they have demonstrated their ability to act in unison regarding their brand choice and purchasing decisions. The collective behavior is reinforced by reviewers, forum users, gamers online, streamers, and people on social media lamenting the lack of performance improvements and absurdly high prices.
Click to expand...

Not sure in what reality distortion bubble you live in, but prices will not go back to GTX10xx levels - despite your classification of "fair prices". Currently we are looking RTX2070 (Super) at around $500 and RTX3070 will come in at around this price or higher - possibly as high as RTX 2070FE prices at launch. Thing is, the market (including the competition) pretty much has agreed to this pricing structure and there was no pressure to NVidia to reduce prices further here - despite your and likes of yours ranting in the forums in unison.
 
Thala said:
Not sure in what reality distortion bubble you live in, but prices will not go back to GTX10xx levels - despite your classification of "fair prices". Currently we are looking RTX2070 (Super) at around $500 and RTX3070 will come in at around this price or higher - possibly as high as RTX 2070FE prices at launch. Thing is, the market (including the competition) pretty much has agreed to this pricing structure and there was no pressure to NVidia to reduce prices further here - despite your and likes of yours ranting in the forums in unison.
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well thats going to be simple enough then just buy an Xbox 🙂
 
Glo. said:
Still does not change the fact that if you have an option of spending 500$ on gaming device, Console is your best option.
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For a gaming device, consoles are best value under $500 where the console market is well established, though there are lot of countries where console market hasn't penetrated, PCs do offer lot more value than console due to high import prices.

Glo. said:
Even if we assume that for 500$ you can get R3 3300X+ RTX 2060/RX 5600 XT performance levels, with next gen hardware, its still is completely trashed by both PS5 and Xbox Series X.
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People who are looking to spend $500 on PC isn't looking for high end gaming. After all, PCs have many other purposes than gaming.

Glo. said:
And yes, plenty of people will have to make this decision. Do they pick a PC, or do they get a console, even if they have only 500$ to spend.
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If they only have $500 to spend on gaming device, PC isn't going to be considered for majority of people. PCs have very different value perception compared to consoles.
 
Thala said:
Personally thats my plan anyway - day 1 purchase. In my case thats not a sole price question though - i noticed that i value convenience much more nowadays.
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To me this looks like the first time since maybe the PS2 , maybe orig 360 aswell but i think G80 was around the same time ? that the consoles hardware will be attractive compared to PC, but thats only because PC GFX pricing has jumped the shark 🙁 .

im going to be really interested to see what they do for 1080P rez. i want prettier pixels not more pixels 🙂 . The biggest bane of this console generation , load times will hopefully be a thing of the past so i can see them being attractive to anyone other then the very highend hardware folk.
 
Glo. said:
Still does not change the fact that if you have an option of spending 500$ on gaming device, Console is your best option.

Even if we assume that for 500$ you can get R3 3300X+ RTX 2060/RX 5600 XT performance levels, with next gen hardware, its still is completely trashed by both PS5 and Xbox Series X.

And yes, plenty of people will have to make this decision. Do they pick a PC, or do they get a console, even if they have only 500$ to spend.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's a reasonable assumption, given the current state of the DIY hardware market. I just carted up a system on pcpartpicker that was a 6 core Zen 2 (3600), 16GB of the cheapest ram, the cheapest B450 MB, the cheapest 256GB SSD + 2TB HDD, and the cheapest case and 80+bronze PSU listed. It was still $470, without a video card. You could shave $50 off that by choosing a four core 3100, but even that doesn't help much. All the other various bits are too expensive, you just can't find the $20 AR deals for a 500W Corsair PSU anymore. You're at the price for a new XBox just getting your system built to put a GPU in. Higher cost is just one of the things we have to suffer for PC gaming.
 
Thala said:
If you really believe prices going down, you will be up for a rude awakening. It should be clear by now why prices are as they are and there is no way going back. In particular companies will not make prices based on what YOU think they should be.
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Companies can price at whatever they want, but if you think sales don't matter, then Oh boy. No going back? Ha, just let a generation of cards underwhelm in sales and you'll see how fast prices adjust.
 
AtenRa said:
Sell your 1080Ti today for $500, give $300 and buy RTX3080 at $800 day one. You get ~50% higher performance in Raster + RT for only $300, I will say thats a very nice upgrade 😉
Click to expand...

That's probably what I will do, but only after a few months. I generally don't like buying on day one and would rather wait until the prices stabilize and they iron out any initial issues. (like the 2080ti space invaders)
 
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