• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

Page 85 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
O

Ottonomous

Senior member
How much is the Samsung 7nm EUV process expected to provide in terms of gains?
How will the RTX components be scaled/developed?
Any major architectural enhancements expected?
Will VRAM be bumped to 16/12/12 for the top three?
Will there be further fragmentation in the lineup? (Keeping turing at cheaper prices, while offering 'beefed up RTX' options at the top?)
Will the top card be capable of >4K60, at least 90?
Would Nvidia ever consider an HBM implementation in the gaming lineup?
Will Nvidia introduce new proprietary technologies again?

Sorry if imprudent/uncalled for, just interested in the forum member's thoughts.
 
Glo. said:
84 SM Ampere GPU - 40% Rasterization perf. improvement, over RTX 2080 Ti, 375W TGP - RTX 3090.
68 SM GPU - 10-15% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Ti, 320W TGP - RTX 3080.
48 SM GPU - 10% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Super - RTX 3070 Ti.
40 SM GPU - RTX 2080 performance - RTX 3070.
36 SM GPU - RTX 2070 Super performance - RTX 3060 Ti
30 SM GPU - RTX 2070 performance - RTX 3060
24 SM GPU - RTX 2060 performance - RTX 3050 Ti.
20 SM GPU - GTX 1660 Ti performance - RTX 3050.

RTX 3050 - 159$.
RTX 3050 Ti - 199$.
RTX 3060 - 249$
RTX 3060 Ti - 299$
RTX 3070 - 349$
RTX 3070 Ti - 449$
RTX 3080 - 599$.
RTX 3090 - 999$.

This is my prediction on price, and performance targets for Ampere GPUs.
Click to expand...
+40% at 375W and +15% at 320w vs the 2080 Ti would mean basically no improvement in performance per watt between Turing and Ampere. That seems incredibly unlikely.
 
Glo. said:
84 SM Ampere GPU - 40% Rasterization perf. improvement, over RTX 2080 Ti, 375W TGP - RTX 3090.
68 SM GPU - 10-15% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Ti, 320W TGP - RTX 3080.
48 SM GPU - 10% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Super - RTX 3070 Ti.
40 SM GPU - RTX 2080 performance - RTX 3070.
36 SM GPU - RTX 2070 Super performance - RTX 3060 Ti
30 SM GPU - RTX 2070 performance - RTX 3060
24 SM GPU - RTX 2060 performance - RTX 3050 Ti.
20 SM GPU - GTX 1660 Ti performance - RTX 3050.

RTX 3050 - 159$.
RTX 3050 Ti - 199$.
RTX 3060 - 249$
RTX 3060 Ti - 299$
RTX 3070 - 349$
RTX 3070 Ti - 449$
RTX 3080 - 599$.
RTX 3090 - 999$.

This is my prediction on price, and performance targets for Ampere GPUs.
Click to expand...
Prices are too low, and performance is too low as well. The 3090 should be at least 60% faster than 2080ti. For reference the FE 1080ti was 85% faster than the stock 980ti (although aftermarket 980ti were sometimes 30%+ faster than the stock 980ti).
 
linkgoron said:
Prices are too low, and performance is too low as well. The 3090 should be at least 60% faster than 2080ti. For reference the FE 1080ti was 85% faster than the stock 980ti (although aftermarket 980ti were sometimes 30%+ faster than the stock 980ti).
Click to expand...
It's not given that RTX 3090 has to be at least 60% faster than RTX 2080 Ti.
For reference:
FE GTX 980 Ti (Cuda: 2816; TMU: 176; ROPs: 96 ) -> 1128Mhz (100%)
FE GTX 1080 Ti (Cuda: 3584; TMU: 224; ROPs: 88 ) -> 1777Mhz (158%)
FE RTX 2080 Ti (Cuda: 4352; TMU: 272; ROPs: 88 ) -> 1824Mhz (162%)
These values are the average clockspeed from techpowerup reviews. As you can see 1080 Ti had 58% higher clockspeed on average than 980 Ti, so It's not surprising It was so much faster. On the other hand 2080Ti had only 47Mhz higher clockspeed than 1080 Ti and was "only" 39% faster.
 
Glo. said:
84 SM Ampere GPU - 40% Rasterization perf. improvement, over RTX 2080 Ti, 375W TGP - RTX 3090.
68 SM GPU - 10-15% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Ti, 320W TGP - RTX 3080.
48 SM GPU - 10% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Super - RTX 3070 Ti.
40 SM GPU - RTX 2080 performance - RTX 3070.
36 SM GPU - RTX 2070 Super performance - RTX 3060 Ti
30 SM GPU - RTX 2070 performance - RTX 3060
24 SM GPU - RTX 2060 performance - RTX 3050 Ti.
20 SM GPU - GTX 1660 Ti performance - RTX 3050.

RTX 3050 - 159$.
RTX 3050 Ti - 199$.
RTX 3060 - 249$
RTX 3060 Ti - 299$
RTX 3070 - 349$
RTX 3070 Ti - 449$
RTX 3080 - 599$.
RTX 3090 - 999$.

This is my prediction on price, and performance targets for Ampere GPUs.
Click to expand...
I won't comment the performance, although I highly doubt that RTX 3070 will be closer to RTX 3060 than to RTX 3070 Ti model. In my opinion If 3070 Ti and 3060 Ti have 48 and 36SM respectively then 3070 and 3060 will have 44 and 32SM.
The prices are very low for Nvidia, but I certainly wouldn't mind such prices.
 
MrTeal said:
+40% at 375W and +15% at 320w vs the 2080 Ti would mean basically no improvement in performance per watt between Turing and Ampere. That seems incredibly unlikely.
Click to expand...

If nVidia was on TSMC for Ampere, I would agree. But they aren't. They are on an unproven Samsung process which historically has been worse than TSMC.
 
Glo. said:
RTX 3050 - 159$.
RTX 3050 Ti - 199$.
RTX 3060 - 249$
RTX 3060 Ti - 299$
RTX 3070 - 349$
RTX 3070 Ti - 449$
RTX 3080 - 599$.
RTX 3090 - 999$.

This is my prediction on price, and performance targets for Ampere GPUs.
Click to expand...

I still think we won't see any Ti's at launch. They will ultimately becomes Super versions next year. Or at a minimum, until after AMD launches.
 
Stuka87 said:
If nVidia was on TSMC for Ampere, I would agree. But they aren't. They are on an unproven Samsung process which historically has been worse than TSMC.
Click to expand...
While I won't argue the SS8 is equal or better than TMSC7, they're moving from a tweaked version of TMSC's 16nm process. Even outside of that, the 2080 Ti managed a 17% uplift over the 1080 Ti in PPW @ 4k on a similar process (TPU numbers). New node, new arch and flat PPW? I can't see it.
 
Glo. said:
84 SM Ampere GPU - 40% Rasterization perf. improvement, over RTX 2080 Ti, 375W TGP - RTX 3090.
68 SM GPU - 10-15% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Ti, 320W TGP - RTX 3080.
48 SM GPU - 10% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Super - RTX 3070 Ti.
40 SM GPU - RTX 2080 performance - RTX 3070.
36 SM GPU - RTX 2070 Super performance - RTX 3060 Ti
30 SM GPU - RTX 2070 performance - RTX 3060
24 SM GPU - RTX 2060 performance - RTX 3050 Ti.
20 SM GPU - GTX 1660 Ti performance - RTX 3050.

RTX 3050 - 159$.
RTX 3050 Ti - 199$.
RTX 3060 - 249$
RTX 3060 Ti - 299$
RTX 3070 - 349$
RTX 3070 Ti - 449$
RTX 3080 - 599$.
RTX 3090 - 999$.

This is my prediction on price, and performance targets for Ampere GPUs.
Click to expand...

RTX 3080 being only 10-15% faster than 2080Ti would be a titanic fail. They might as well just lower the price of the 2080Ti and be done with it. I wouldn't move from a 1080Ti to the RTX 3080 if that's all it brought to the table, even at $600. Useless upgrade. 3090 would be good performance-wise but they wouldn't get many people to ditch their 1080Ti for a $1000 card. They'd piss off a lot of people though.
 
I would like to know guys your explenation for "too low performance"?

Do you even realize how big IPC jump Nvidia would have to get, purely from ALU counts perspective, to get more performance out of their designs?

Have you guys taken into account the ALU count jump?

RTX 3080 has 68 SM's. The same amount as RTX 2080 Ti. RTX 2080 Ti has 352 bit GDDR6 bus, and RTX 3080 has 320 bit bus. Almost the same memory bandwidth, becasue of the GDDR6X..

Almost the same core clocks - RTX 3080 will have higher.

How do you get more performance out of almost the same specs?

MAGIC? Nvidia branding?
 
moonbogg said:
RTX 3080 being only 10-15% faster than 2080Ti would be a titanic fail. They might as well just lower the price of the 2080Ti and be done with it. I wouldn't move from a 1080Ti to the RTX 3080 if that's all it brought to the table, even at $600. Useless upgrade. 3090 would be good performance-wise but they wouldn't get many people to ditch their 1080Ti for a $1000 card. They'd piss off a lot of people though.
Click to expand...

2080ti is 30-35% faster than 1080ti, IF 3080 is another 10-15% higher and IF it has a MSRP of $800 then you get 50% higher performance for the same price as 1080ti.

Not bad for an upgrade but not great if you think that 1080Ti launched 3.5 years ago.
 
Glo. said:
I would like to know guys your explenation for "too low performance"?

Do you even realize how big IPC jump Nvidia would have to get, purely from ALU counts perspective, to get more performance out of their designs?

Have you guys taken into account the ALU count jump?

RTX 3080 has 68 SM's. The same amount as RTX 2080 Ti. RTX 2080 Ti has 352 bit GDDR6 bus, and RTX 3080 has 320 bit bus. Almost the same memory bandwidth, becasue of the GDDR6X..

Almost the same core clocks - RTX 3080 will have higher.

How do you get more performance out of almost the same specs?

MAGIC? Nvidia branding?
Click to expand...
The 2X FP32 per SM rumor covers that IPC gain. 3090 should be 60-70% faster and the 3080 30-40% faster that a 2080Ti.
 
DiogoDX said:
The 2X FP32 per SM rumor covers that IPC gain. 3090 should be 60-70% faster and the 3080 30-40% faster that a 2080Ti.
Click to expand...
That rumor is a complete BS.

Want to know why? Look at GA100 chip. Gaming cards are exactly the same architecture, with specific tweaks for gaming, and leaving out the GEMM stuff out of it.


Many months ago I have written here that next gen Gaming cards from Nvidia are not great from Rasterization perspective, but they are vastly better from Ray Tracing perspective.

Ray Tracing is what has consumed die area in next gen gaming cards. People have forgotten about this fact, it appears.
 
Glo. said:
84 SM Ampere GPU - 40% Rasterization perf. improvement, over RTX 2080 Ti, 375W TGP - RTX 3090.
68 SM GPU - 10-15% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Ti, 320W TGP - RTX 3080.
48 SM GPU - 10% rasterization improvement over RTX 2080 Super - RTX 3070 Ti.
40 SM GPU - RTX 2080 performance - RTX 3070.
36 SM GPU - RTX 2070 Super performance - RTX 3060 Ti
30 SM GPU - RTX 2070 performance - RTX 3060
24 SM GPU - RTX 2060 performance - RTX 3050 Ti.
20 SM GPU - GTX 1660 Ti performance - RTX 3050.

RTX 3050 - 159$.
RTX 3050 Ti - 199$.
RTX 3060 - 249$
RTX 3060 Ti - 299$
RTX 3070 - 349$
RTX 3070 Ti - 449$
RTX 3080 - 599$.
RTX 3090 - 999$.

This is my prediction on price, and performance targets for Ampere GPUs.
Click to expand...

If rumors are true you forgot to include ARM tax in your pricing.

I'll look at reviews, but won't be buying either way.
 
moonbogg said:
RTX 3080 being only 10-15% faster than 2080Ti would be a titanic fail. They might as well just lower the price of the 2080Ti and be done with it. I wouldn't move from a 1080Ti to the RTX 3080 if that's all it brought to the table, even at $600. Useless upgrade. 3090 would be good performance-wise but they wouldn't get many people to ditch their 1080Ti for a $1000 card. They'd piss off a lot of people though.
Click to expand...

I would be somewhat willing to shell out for one of these cards (although the top one will definitely be more than $1000) if I had more motivation for it. I find the 1080ti still runs 4K at 60hz pretty well. Sometimes I have to reduce settings from "ultra" to "high," which makes no perceptible difference to the graphics but increases the framerate a lot. Most AAA games these days are also moving to some form of multiplayer, which I am less interested in (and competitive players don't care about graphics and turn down settings anyway), while games a few years old work fine on the 1080ti. I'm actually kind of interested in upgrading but have to think hard to justify it for anything I would actually play, except for VR and 4K at 120hz, for which I have to replace my TV as well. That's the real problem with high end video card releases these days.
 
SLI is dead. Take it from someone who has had 2 2080ti's for 2 years up until last week when I sold one. Maybe 4 or 5 new releases supported it in that time frame that I can think of. One of which was Quake 2 RTX

With the responsibility on developers for multi-gpu with the new API's, its over. Dev's just don't add support for it outside of whoever the dev is for the new Tomb Raider games
 
Glo. said:
That rumor is a complete BS.

Want to know why? Look at GA100 chip. Gaming cards are exactly the same architecture, with specific tweaks for gaming, and leaving out the GEMM stuff out of it.


Many months ago I have written here that next gen Gaming cards from Nvidia are not great from Rasterization perspective, but they are vastly better from Ray Tracing perspective.

Ray Tracing is what has consumed die area in next gen gaming cards. People have forgotten about this fact, it appears.
Click to expand...

How do you account for the TimeSpy Extreme results from KatCorgi and KopiteKimi then?? Did you see the % differences. The thing is this, you can extrapolate the TSE Turing scores (from that Synthetic Benchmark) and correlate to gaming score quite well with a decent variance. Do the same again for what Ampere is coming from the Twitter leakers, include massive variance/buffer and you get way more than what you are speculating.

That said, would love the pricing you are forecasting 😉
 
maddie said:
Aren't there some rumors that the 3090 might have 2 die? Could we be seeing a return to the traditional xx90 models, aka SLI on 1 card?

A die on either side of the PCB with separate heatpipes and a single fan for each???
Click to expand...
Wait, where on leaked RTX 3090 PCB pictures you can see 2 GPUs?
 
I don't think a $2000 card will even get much comparison time on youtube channels or anywhere else. It will be completely irrelevant to the world of gaming, lol. It would get reviewed once, and some channels probably won't even include it in their benchmarks after that. Noone will pretend like people care about a $2000 card. Come on now, they went from 980Ti @ $650 to 1080Ti @ $700 to 2080Ti @ $1200. No way they go to 3080 @ $1500 and 3090 @ $2000 lol. I kind of hope they do just so I can enjoy the backlash and drama.
 
moonbogg said:
I don't think a $2000 card will even get much comparison time on youtube channels or anywhere else. It will be completely irrelevant to the world of gaming, lol. It would get reviewed once, and some channels probably won't even include it in their benchmarks after that. Noone will pretend like people care about a $2000 card. Come on now, they went from 980Ti @ $650 to 1080Ti @ $700 to 2080Ti @ $1200. No way they go to 3080 @ $1500 and 3090 @ $2000 lol. I kind of hope they do just so I can enjoy the backlash and drama.
Click to expand...

I think the $2000 for the 3090 is wrong. I think it'll be $1500.
 
jpiniero said:
I think the $2000 for the 3090 is wrong. I think it'll be $1500.
Click to expand...

I hope it would be closer, if not that. I think they are looking at the higher end stack in a way like Threadripper pricing with some clear pricing segmentation and evolving structure that way.

The current Titan RTX is $2500 and the RTX 2080 Ti $1200. I suspect they want to fill that segment between with the 3090.

Edit: One point is though those Colorful cards are the Vulcan brand which is higher end so I would expect maybe $1799.....?
 
Krteq said:
Wait, where on leaked RTX 3090 PCB pictures you can see 2 GPUs?
Click to expand...
I also saw this speculation elsewhere. What if there really is 2 die, not a co-processor, but another full die on the back for a traditional xx90 type of product.


"Shots of NVIDIA’s RTX 3090 PCB (or perhaps the 3080) have surfaced on the Bilibili forums (now taken down), showing an interesting design. The VRAM dies are on the back-side of the PCB along with a second processor (co-processor?). Furthermore, the NVLink connector is different from the one on the Turing GPUs."
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidi...eportedly-surfaces-double-sided-with-2-chips/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top