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Americans, your thoughts...people who live here and can't speak english
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Moonbender
Golden Member
True, being stubborn doesn't help. On either side. 🙂
Angrymarshmello
Lifer
My grandma and grandpa migrated here from China in 1968. The only English they know as of today is: Hi, Bye, Rice Krispies, and a few assorted food items. They don't interact much with other American people that often (probably a few times a year) so why bother learning it?
<< How many of you did learn Spanish? If there's a very high percentage of Hispanics in your area, why not do so? Because learning languages can be quite difficult? Well what a surprise. >>
why should the responsiblity be ours? Just because a lot of them move here, we are suppossed to tear down everything that is built upon english, the structure we have in place, just to accomodate? on our dime? Should we do this if the french start migrating? Change the language again? This is ridicoulous. If I moved to mexico, I would be certain, that I would be able to communicate, at least on a basic level, before I even thought of it. Of course there would be no accomodation for me there if I did not. Its learn spanish or leave. Well, we should have that same attitude.
What really gets me, you go into the DMV, and most of the clerks are bilingual, speaking spanish to these people, handing them drivers licenses. They cant even speak enough english to speak with someone enough to do that, so we accomadate. Fine. the problem with that?
[*]How are they supposed to read the signs? Stop, do not enter, these are not the only signs on the road, but because they recognize the shapes, they can pass the (spanish) test. What about specialized signs? Construction Zone? Children crossing? deaf child? these are all ignored by this person. Am I the only one who sees the danger in this? I used to drive a tow truck in hillsboro, and you would not believe the amount of accidents I cleaned up because of this, so dont tell me I am not in a position to say it. You have not looked at the blood and brains scattered on the road that did not need to be there.
[*]Less importantly, what about the police officers who cannot communicate with these people? what about time wasted waiting for a bilingual officer to show up? paying two people to do one simple thing. keeps another valuable officer off the road for that period of time.
I could go on and on, but I have to go to bed sometime tonight...
Ragingbitch - I have the same situation as yours except it's my fiance's grandparents. They only speak Russian and don't have any desire to learn English. Over the past 3 years since I've known them I've only been able to say Hi, Bye, etc. To me it's kind of sad that I'll never be able to talk to them, but they're almost 80 years old and I don't have the time or money to invest in learning the Russian language just to speak with them for a few years before they're gone.
Angrymarshmello
Lifer
<< So what? All what you are talking about here are based on your assumptions. If you are 60 years old and moved to a foreigner country, i don't Think you have the will and ability to learn the language.
Fvck you NFS4, SHOW SOME RESPECT TO OTHER PEOPLE! i DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE ELITE OR NOT. >>
That was highly uncalled for. You can't have a fvcking baby at 60 years old. (Medically speaking anyway, it does happen every now and then) I think he meant the younger generation in general, not necessarily the older folk
Angrymarshmello
Lifer
shif - yea it sort of is sad. Maybe you can get your fiancee to teach you a little bit in your spare time?
In the U.S. you should learn English. After all, the whole philosophy behind the U.S. is to assimilate - i.e. the 'Melting Pot'. In Canada however, while it's more practical to learn the language I don't find it offensive when people refuse to learn English or French.
Toronto is probably the most multicultural city in the world - I say this very modestly; just looking at the facts. Whereas in other multicultural cities like New York or San Francisco or Chicago, in Toronto people keep their culture.
Part of their culture is their language. Mc Donald's, banks, hospitals and government literature often use Chinese, Arabic, Indian and/or Pakistani (sorry, I don't remember the names of Indian and Pakistan's languages) in addition to English - sometimes in the absence of French. For businesses, it's in their interest. Keep your customer's happy, and especially for newcomers, make them feel wanted and at home. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. For government agencies like hospitals, it is usually a matter of life or death as NFS4's story exhibits.
I don't feel offended or angered at all. New cultures - and in this situation - new languages broaden my perspective of the world. Where I can pickup sayings in Chinese, Arabic, Indian or Pakistani in my area, I feel that's a great thing. In return, I'll help them out by teaching them English.
Put yourself in their shows. You come to a new country and don't speak the language. Perhaps they should have learned the language before they came. But people like ViperGTS who see these people as either "too stupid" or "too stubborn" to learn the language don't help this situation...in addition to NFS4 getting angry about the situation. For goodness sake, befriend these people. They're outsiders and you're helping them feel like outsiders. Start meeting new people...broaden your horizons. In addition to learning a little bit of a new language, you might even pick up new traditions, experience kickass food, and meet extremely interesting people.
The vast majority of immigrants want to learn the language. Those that don't are no different than the domestics who can't speak proper English let alone read/write it. Perhaps before Americans start complaining about outsiders not learning English they should focus on their own people, many of which don't have a firm grasp of the language as well!
-GL
Toronto is probably the most multicultural city in the world - I say this very modestly; just looking at the facts. Whereas in other multicultural cities like New York or San Francisco or Chicago, in Toronto people keep their culture.
Part of their culture is their language. Mc Donald's, banks, hospitals and government literature often use Chinese, Arabic, Indian and/or Pakistani (sorry, I don't remember the names of Indian and Pakistan's languages) in addition to English - sometimes in the absence of French. For businesses, it's in their interest. Keep your customer's happy, and especially for newcomers, make them feel wanted and at home. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. For government agencies like hospitals, it is usually a matter of life or death as NFS4's story exhibits.
I don't feel offended or angered at all. New cultures - and in this situation - new languages broaden my perspective of the world. Where I can pickup sayings in Chinese, Arabic, Indian or Pakistani in my area, I feel that's a great thing. In return, I'll help them out by teaching them English.
Put yourself in their shows. You come to a new country and don't speak the language. Perhaps they should have learned the language before they came. But people like ViperGTS who see these people as either "too stupid" or "too stubborn" to learn the language don't help this situation...in addition to NFS4 getting angry about the situation. For goodness sake, befriend these people. They're outsiders and you're helping them feel like outsiders. Start meeting new people...broaden your horizons. In addition to learning a little bit of a new language, you might even pick up new traditions, experience kickass food, and meet extremely interesting people.
The vast majority of immigrants want to learn the language. Those that don't are no different than the domestics who can't speak proper English let alone read/write it. Perhaps before Americans start complaining about outsiders not learning English they should focus on their own people, many of which don't have a firm grasp of the language as well!
-GL
Blackhawk2
Senior member
I'm Canadian but I can see the American point of view. It should be required by law to know the language of the country your going to live in permanently before you go. Once you become a citizen of a country, you become part of the country. You disrespect the country and the people in it by not learning the language.
ElFenix,
Actually I wouldn't be surprised. I only have statistics on "multiculteralism" which is defined every which way from Sunday. Here Toronto and Vancouver are world leaders of multiculturalism (defined as percentage of the population that aren't born in the country they no reside in I believe).
World's most multicultural cities
-GL
Actually I wouldn't be surprised. I only have statistics on "multiculteralism" which is defined every which way from Sunday. Here Toronto and Vancouver are world leaders of multiculturalism (defined as percentage of the population that aren't born in the country they no reside in I believe).
World's most multicultural cities
-GL
NFS4
No Lifer
Of course I'm "angry," If I plan on moving to another country for a long period of time or even permanently I am going to learn their language.
No sense in me burdening them with my lack of knowledge of their language or inconvencing them.
It's a matter of respect and willingness to adapt.
No sense in me burdening them with my lack of knowledge of their language or inconvencing them.
It's a matter of respect and willingness to adapt.
MISTER 2 U
Senior member
Bluga,
<<<<<<<<<<NFS4, SHOW SOME RESPECT TO OTHER PEOPLE! i DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE ELITE OR NOT>>>>>>>>>>>
I don't think he was disrespecting anyone it is just a pain in the as* when youlive in a bilingual
area.I have lived in such a place NOT TRYING TO DISRESPECT ANYONE.
Were mexicans would come across the boarded for work and a better way of life.
They would take jobs from us by working for lower wages.
What I did not like is if they knew english they would not use it.
if you asked a question they would respond with no "speak english"
BUT if you said do you want to work for some amount of cash they understood just fine.
I worked in a auto parts store they would come in and (at the time I did not speak spanish)
and want a part for thier car and I could not help them then I would check them out at the cash register
and want me to break a $100.00 bill I would say no (my draw was only $100.00) and the same person that could not speak english was telling me off in perfect english.
what gets me is they use it as a excuse.
<<<<<<<<<<NFS4, SHOW SOME RESPECT TO OTHER PEOPLE! i DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE ELITE OR NOT>>>>>>>>>>>
I don't think he was disrespecting anyone it is just a pain in the as* when youlive in a bilingual
area.I have lived in such a place NOT TRYING TO DISRESPECT ANYONE.
Were mexicans would come across the boarded for work and a better way of life.
They would take jobs from us by working for lower wages.
What I did not like is if they knew english they would not use it.
if you asked a question they would respond with no "speak english"
BUT if you said do you want to work for some amount of cash they understood just fine.
I worked in a auto parts store they would come in and (at the time I did not speak spanish)
and want a part for thier car and I could not help them then I would check them out at the cash register
and want me to break a $100.00 bill I would say no (my draw was only $100.00) and the same person that could not speak english was telling me off in perfect english.
what gets me is they use it as a excuse.
lol required by law? If that was so, this country would never exist. This country was founded by immigrants, many of whom spoke no English when they arrived. I agree that people who want to permanently live in the U.S. ought to eventually learn how to speak English, but to say it should be required by law sounds like downright communism. Remember the principle of "freedom." It means if I want to speak Chinese for the rest of my life i'm entitled to do so. The problem with us Americans is that we're spoiled. I have traveled extensively and almost every country i've visited caters to Americans and the English language. I am although against illegal immigration. My parents were immigrants from western Europe and came here the difficult way; legally. If a Mexican comes to the U.S. legally and becomes a citizen, he/she should be entitled to speak whichever language they wish. I live in Los Angeles, CA so I feel that I am speaking from experience.
Moonbender
Golden Member
I understand your position, and it does make sense. However, it's absolutely possible to create a bi-lingual country, and is being done in many countries. Here (in Germany), nearly every student learns some basic English, and most learn enough so that they'd survive in an English-speaking country. If every US student would learn Spanish, then the situation would be nicer, I'd think.
Of course they should be able to communicate in English, no doubt. But the fact is some or maybe most can't. Most immigrants, or so I am guessing, are lower class people trying to earn a basic living in the US. It's quite reasonable to say that they didn't even have the chance to learn English where they came from, eg Mexico. Offering them English courses, for free, would be a start - maybe this is done already ...?
But there'll always be people who do not want to learn English, no matter if it's free or not. As someone mentioned before, many never need the English language, as they always live in areas where everyone speaks their respective language. There is just no encouragment for learning the language, it's not necessary to spent time on it.
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I am not really part of the whole thing anyways - although we have a similar discussion here, which is why I am interested in the topic.
But I just want to encourage you to see it from the immigrants point of view - saying that you'd learn Spanish if you'd move to Mexico is something completely different: you probably had a good education, you're probably white, you're probably a relatively young man, and you've probably got a good income (that is, if you are the average Internet user).
Just some ideas.
Ah, I just saw GL's post ... very nice, I agree nearly completely.
Of course they should be able to communicate in English, no doubt. But the fact is some or maybe most can't. Most immigrants, or so I am guessing, are lower class people trying to earn a basic living in the US. It's quite reasonable to say that they didn't even have the chance to learn English where they came from, eg Mexico. Offering them English courses, for free, would be a start - maybe this is done already ...?
But there'll always be people who do not want to learn English, no matter if it's free or not. As someone mentioned before, many never need the English language, as they always live in areas where everyone speaks their respective language. There is just no encouragment for learning the language, it's not necessary to spent time on it.
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I am not really part of the whole thing anyways - although we have a similar discussion here, which is why I am interested in the topic.
But I just want to encourage you to see it from the immigrants point of view - saying that you'd learn Spanish if you'd move to Mexico is something completely different: you probably had a good education, you're probably white, you're probably a relatively young man, and you've probably got a good income (that is, if you are the average Internet user).
Just some ideas.
Ah, I just saw GL's post ... very nice, I agree nearly completely.
GL...
I'm not saying people should be fluent before they get here, I'm saying that once they get here they should make efforts to learn the language, instead of huddling in their own little groups, & requiring a translator all the time. If they're working to become a part of our society, I DON'T MIND THEIR BEING HERE! But if they're doing their damndest to avoid our language, & still want us to cater to them? Fvck that.
Viper GTS
I'm not saying people should be fluent before they get here, I'm saying that once they get here they should make efforts to learn the language, instead of huddling in their own little groups, & requiring a translator all the time. If they're working to become a part of our society, I DON'T MIND THEIR BEING HERE! But if they're doing their damndest to avoid our language, & still want us to cater to them? Fvck that.
Viper GTS
NFS4,
I don't mean this in a negative way: you're typically American. You very much believe in the mentality of the melting pot, am I not correct? Well then what's getting angry about this situation going to do? Be proactive about the situation. For starters, try to have a more kind attitude towards these newcomers - perhaps they won't be so scared to become recluses which ultimately leads to them not learning the American culture and language. After all...they will be Americans soon if they physically stay in the country long enough I suppose.
If you have ever been to Europe for extended periods of time, you might start to see the type of harshness that locals exhibit. Europeans are notorious for frowning upon Americans (they put on a good face for Americans in tourist areas though). As any Canadian will attest too, it is a necessity to have Canadian flags sewn onto any major visible part of the body so as not to be mistaken for an American when on vacation out that way. Experience what that's like, and that is analogous to the situation in the States. If the locals don't like you, it becomes very hard to be motivated to become more like them.
-GL
I don't mean this in a negative way: you're typically American. You very much believe in the mentality of the melting pot, am I not correct? Well then what's getting angry about this situation going to do? Be proactive about the situation. For starters, try to have a more kind attitude towards these newcomers - perhaps they won't be so scared to become recluses which ultimately leads to them not learning the American culture and language. After all...they will be Americans soon if they physically stay in the country long enough I suppose.
If you have ever been to Europe for extended periods of time, you might start to see the type of harshness that locals exhibit. Europeans are notorious for frowning upon Americans (they put on a good face for Americans in tourist areas though). As any Canadian will attest too, it is a necessity to have Canadian flags sewn onto any major visible part of the body so as not to be mistaken for an American when on vacation out that way. Experience what that's like, and that is analogous to the situation in the States. If the locals don't like you, it becomes very hard to be motivated to become more like them.
-GL
I hope it does piss you off, since you vote for the party that keeps this crap in place. The Right side of the isle is working their asses off to undo the BS that mofo Clinton, ordered recently. And to add insult to injury, who do you think pays for this crap? :|
http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn😛di: //oma.eop.gov.us/2000/8/11/2.text.2
http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn😛di: //oma.eop.gov.us/2000/8/11/2.text.2
- Executive Order 13166 ? officially mandates that all federal agencies become ?multilingual? by catering to foreign minorities in their native languages.
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