American's view of the term Capitalism low enough for Politicians to change language?

[bfdd]

For that matter same as the word social democracy or socialist past 100 years.

true. so has democrat, it used to mean a supporter of direct democracy and was considered slanderous by some.

 

[sandorski]

We live in a world where arguments occur in phrases and sound bites. Capitalism now tends to imply all that is wrong with capitalism as our nation has practiced it.

No. More and more people are beginning to realize that it is doublespeak (not learning to identify doublespeak in general, merely a specific set of phrases), and what they were told they wanted, which was sold to them as what they actually wanted, is not at all what they wanted. Now, new doublespeak is being invented to market the same old shit in a new way. It will probably work, too.

That partnerships, mutuals, bonds, and similar measures, are the ethically correct ways to allow others to buy into part of your business, and that public trading by anonymous parties, for any term, with no stake in the health of a business, its employees, or its customers, is fucked up. I don't agree with the Occupy movement, but since following the rules has gotten us nowhere, I can empathize with those involved that aren't whackos. Luntz and friends should not be frightened, but should, rather, realize that the economic system of the US is deeply flawed (private and public both), needs correction, and that too few people in any positions of power are willing to do anything positive about it.

Had a smart ass post all lined up, but this post states the sentiment better. I agree with all of it, except the non-support for the Occupy Movement which in its' essence pretty much agrees with this post as well, as far as I can tell anyway.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Lets just call it what it really means; ass raping the middle class.

 

[sm625]

When you would think that the word would have a much higher favorable view.

People dont really know what any of those words actually mean. Dont believe me? Try asking people on the street at random.

 

[Bowfinger]

It's a good move for them to try to use the words "economic freedom" or "free market".

Here's an interesting article about whether the current economy will push people towards socialism:

Thought for Labor Day: Conservative Dogma Pulling Marx Out of His Grave

Very good read. Thank you.

 

[werepossum]

The progressives largely have control over our media and our education system. Capitalism is probably doomed no matter what new terms we use for it, because young people in their formative years are being taught that capitalism is bad.

 

[Bowfinger]

The progressives largely have control over our media ...

Just repeat the lie often enough and the ignorant will soon accept it as gospel.

 

[senseamp]

The progressives largely have control over our media and our education system. Capitalism is probably doomed no matter what new terms we use for it, because young people in their formative years are being taught that capitalism is bad.

They are being taught that by life, not the media. If you don't want capitalism to be doomed, make sure it works for a large majority of the population, not just a few at the top.

 

[Cerb]

Had a smart ass post all lined up, but this post states the sentiment better. I agree with all of it, except the non-support for the Occupy Movement which in its' essence pretty much agrees with this post as well, as far as I can tell anyway.

I see Occupy as doing like we do with politicians: choosing the best from a bad set of options. I support the sentiment, but not calling for specific changes is not cool, IMO (IE, what to run towards, not what to run away from), and I'm honestly fairly torn on whether their denial of use of space is leading towards good or ill. I'm also afraid that without a good direction to go in being specified (decisiveness has political advantages over contemplating and compromising), they will end up as an opposite ended version of the Tea Party, hijacked by special interests, with the sane members of the movement realizing it far too late.

IOW, they need to change now, and start acting like early unions; else they will become exploited as political tools against themselves. It's not the sentiment I don't support, but the lack of a coherent do something message.

The progressives largely have control over our media and our education system. Capitalism is probably doomed no matter what new terms we use for it, because young people in their formative years are being taught that capitalism is bad.

Capitalism not tempered with regulation to promote the health of the nation is bad, and our bastardized system (which is far closer to corporatism, today, than capitalism) encourages the dismantling of our nation's economic/political health. Since socialism is a dirty word, our government becoming entwined with global businesses has retained the name capitalism.

If our system can be called capitalism, and our system is bad, then capitalism is bad. The word capitalism is associated with politicians and businesspeople talking about the U.S. economic system.

Even capitalism formed fairly well is probably not going to be able to survive into the future, though. Resources are simply not infinite (within any reasonable time-frame), and we cannot expect those who seek power to work towards the interests of the population as a whole.

Even so, as the future turns into now, what we will need is not so much a discussion of capitalisms v. socialisms, but of responsibility (any economic system is merely a means to a goal; and that goal has been lost sight of by most of the developed world, and much of the developing world is mimicking that behavior). The majority of developed nations, regardless of identification of economic system, have decoupled spending from income, and relied on credit as a long-term solution (true of both large businesses, especially multinational corporations, and governments), and determined that GDP (which can be boosted by actions that create no wealth) is the almighty sign of economic health. Laws and regs need to place indicators of actual economic health (trade balance, net national income v. debt, domestic employment, access to health care, etc.) in places of higher priority than those of shirt-term economic growth.

 

[werepossum]

Just repeat the lie often enough and the ignorant will soon accept it as gospel.

Exactly. By seizing control of the media and the education system, progressives have ensured that the ignorant believe that capitalism is bad.

 

[Ausm]

Exactly. By seizing control of the media and the education system, progressives have ensured that the ignorant believe that capitalism is bad.

Capitalism without regulation is REALLY bad just look no further then the egregious practices of Wall Street and big banks.

 

[Bowfinger]

Exactly. By seizing control of the media and the education system, progressives have ensured that the ignorant believe that capitalism is bad.

Whatever. The first piece of your allegation -- progressives control the media -- is a blatant lie, though one the RNC faithful love to chant endlessly (it reinforces their victim complex). The media is largely controlled by large corporations, and serves their interests first and foremost.

The second piece -- progressives control education -- is muddled. While one can certainly find many examples of liberal influence in education, there are just as many examples of conservative influence. One need only look at cases where schools have been required to teach Intelligent Design, for example, or "No Child Left Behind" [ sic ] which is a very right-wing approach to cranking out little automatons that can pass tests while knowing almost nothing. Then, of course, you have the Pledge of Allegiance, blatant right-wing indoctrination (never mind the "under God" part), though of course the righties take this so much for granted they are incapable of seeing it for what it is.

I'd suggest it would be far more accurate to say that public education is mostly biased towards promoting the status quo. It strives to raise generation after generation of good little consumers who will keep the 1% moving upwards while pursuing the illusion that stuff is what's important in life, no matter what it costs them or society.

Finally, your last piece -- progressives teach people capitalism is bad -- is total bullshit, just more emotion-laden wing-nut sobbing about how badly they're victimized by those mean liberals. Grow a pair already, and learn to make honest arguments.

Not only do schools generally preach the glories of capitalism, part of their program to indoctrinate new generations of consumers, but here in the real world the complaint by the vast majority of "progressives" is not that capitalism is bad. That's a lie, a nutter talking point used to divert attention from the real issue: capitalism is easily abused -- and has been abused -- when we lack effective checks and balances to keep greedy, immoral bastards under control. Naturally you don't want to have that discussion, so instead you blow straw man arguments and propaganda points.

 

[senseamp]

Exactly. By seizing control of the media and the education system, progressives have ensured that the ignorant believe that capitalism is bad.

Yeah, how dare they not enjoy their jobs being outsourced and their pay stagnating to make room for more corporate profits and bonuses at the top, do they not know that greed is good?

 

[werepossum]

Whatever. The first piece of your allegation -- progressives control the media -- is a blatant lie, though one the RNC faithful love to chant endlessly (it reinforces their victim complex). The media is largely controlled by large corporations, and serves their interests first and foremost.

The second piece -- progressives control education -- is muddled. While one can certainly find many examples of liberal influence in education, there are just as many examples of conservative influence. One need only look at cases where schools have been required to teach Intelligent Design, for example, or "No Child Left Behind" [ sic ] which is a very right-wing approach to cranking out little automatons that can pass tests while knowing almost nothing. Then, of course, you have the Pledge of Allegiance, blatant right-wing indoctrination (never mind the "under God" part), though of course the righties take this so much for granted they are incapable of seeing it for what it is.

I'd suggest it would be far more accurate to say that public education is mostly biased towards promoting the status quo. It strives to raise generation after generation of good little consumers who will keep the 1% moving upwards while pursuing the illusion that stuff is what's important in life, no matter what it costs them or society.

Finally, your last piece -- progressives teach people capitalism is bad -- is total bullshit, just more emotion-laden wing-nut sobbing about how badly they're victimized by those mean liberals. Grow a pair already, and learn to make honest arguments.

Not only do schools generally preach the glories of capitalism, part of their program to indoctrinate new generations of consumers, but here in the real world the complaint by the vast majority of "progressives" is not that capitalism is bad. That's a lie, a nutter talking point used to divert attention from the real issue: capitalism is easily abused -- and has been abused -- when we lack effective checks and balances to keep greedy, immoral bastards under control. Naturally you don't want to have that discussion, so instead you blow straw man arguments and propaganda points.

Who knew that a group self-reporting as voting for 80+% for Democrats, often voting in larger numbers for the Greens than for the Republicans, are actually a bunch of right wing corporate types? For that matter, who knew that the self-styled liberal lion Ted Kennedy authored a "very right-wing approach to cranking out little automatons that can pass tests while knowing almost nothing"? Or that the Pledge of Allegiance is "blatant right-wing indoctrination"?

Next you'll be telling us that Occupy Wall Street is a right wing corporate extremist movement.

 

[werepossum]

Yeah, how dare they not enjoy their jobs being outsourced and their pay stagnating to make room for more corporate profits and bonuses at the top, do they not know that greed is good?

You're confusing capitalism with global arbitrage. They aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[Jaskalas]

Democrats have successfully taught children that capitalism is akin to having the freedom to !@#$ on people and loot the country. Who wouldn't be opposed to that concept?

Given the modern viral properties of group think, such a notion has become widespread. So long as you're recruited into their group you're going to hate the founding liberties of this nation. Anti-American is the new American.

They are not taught the economic and societal model that existed before American Capitalism. They've no idea that we are the progressed form of society. So now we're regressing back from individual ownership to state ownership. From diverse individuality to generic centralization.

Big government has come again after we worked so hard to escape it.

 

[Craig234]

Just repeat the lie often enough and the ignorant will soon accept it as gospel.

And who has the power to repeat the lie, and uses it, to get it accepted?

The media, which is far from 'progressive'.

 

[Bowfinger]

Who knew that a group self-reporting as voting for 80+% for Democrats, often voting in larger numbers for the Greens than for the Republicans, are actually a bunch of right wing corporate types?

Really? You're going to fall back to that duhversion? That was a lame excuse the first time it was tried, and it hasn't aged well. I mean sure, in most of the large corps I've seen, it's the guys at the bottom of the food chain that are making the decisions about the direction and content of the work produced ... NOT. The reporters are peons. They report what they're told to report, and in the way they're told to do it, just like any other corporate employee.

Try harder. I understand why certain posters here blindly parrot the talking points. It's the best they can do. You've shown you can do better, yet you too rarely try. Pity.

For that matter, who knew that the self-styled liberal lion Ted Kennedy authored a "very right-wing approach to cranking out little automatons that can pass tests while knowing almost nothing"?

Yes, because Kennedy was solely responsible for NCLB (which was proposed by Bush, as I remember it), including writing and implementing the whole thing. And of course I'm sure you'll agree Kennedy was perfect, writing flawless legislation, fully-informed about all aspects of education, and never inclined to impose a federal solution where it doesn't make sense. Right?

Naturally you ignored the gist of my point, that one can find just as much conservative meddling in education as you can liberal meddling. Heaven forbid you should show the fortitude and the honesty to actually address and support your claim.

Or that the Pledge of Allegiance is "blatant right-wing indoctrination"?

Very much so. As I said, you so take it for granted that you can't even recognize it, but it surely is. Mind you, I don't think that's all bad. I think kids should be exposed to a cross section of ideologies, and there are good reasons to encourage a certain level of blind patriotism. Nonetheless, let's not kid ourselves about what it is.


Next, of course, you completely dodge your lie about liberals denouncing capitalism in and of itself. It's abuses and corruption that "progressives" denounce, as should anyone with integrity. It is the right that tries to brainwash kids with an idealized view of capitalism that has little to do with the real world.

Next you'll be telling us that Occupy Wall Street is a right wing corporate extremist movement.

You're lying again.

 

[Bowfinger]

Greedy corporations and their ideologue apologists have successfully shown children that capitalism is akin to having the freedom to !@#$ on people and loot the country.

FTFY

Given the modern viral properties of group think, such a notion has become widespread. So long as you're recruited into their group you're going to hate the founding liberties of this nation. Anti-American is the new American. ...

More bullshit. You're lying through your teeth. You're incapable of productive discussion about reality so you fabricate nonsense to attack instead. It's not anti-American to support rule of law and oppose corruption, no matter what your privileged masters tell you.

 

[bfdd]

anyone limiting themselves to labels is stuck in a box and has no forward thinking. it doesn't matter which label or what groupthink they partake in, it's all the same.

 

[werepossum]

Really? You're going to fall back to that duhversion? That was a lame excuse the first time it was tried, and it hasn't aged well. I mean sure, in most of the large corps I've seen, it's the guys at the bottom of the food chain that are making the decisions about the direction and content of the work produced ... NOT. The reporters are peons. They report what they're told to report, and in the way they're told to do it, just like any other corporate employee.

Try harder. I understand why certain posters here blindly parrot the talking points. It's the best they can do. You've shown you can do better, yet you too rarely try. Pity.

Yes, because Kennedy was solely responsible for NCLB (which was proposed by Bush, as I remember it), including writing and implementing the whole thing. And of course I'm sure you'll agree Kennedy was perfect, writing flawless legislation, fully-informed about all aspects of education, and never inclined to impose a federal solution where it doesn't make sense. Right?

Naturally you ignored the gist of my point, that one can find just as much conservative meddling in education as you can liberal meddling. Heaven forbid you should show the fortitude and the honesty to actually address and support your claim.

Very much so. As I said, you so take it for granted that you can't even recognize it, but it surely is. Mind you, I don't think that's all bad. I think kids should be exposed to a cross section of ideologies, and there are good reasons to encourage a certain level of blind patriotism. Nonetheless, let's not kid ourselves about what it is.

Next, of course, you completely dodge your lie about liberals denouncing capitalism in and of itself. It's abuses and corruption that "progressives" denounce, as should anyone with integrity. It is the right that tries to brainwash kids with an idealized view of capitalism that has little to do with the real world.

You're lying again.

Stop and think objectively for a moment. Do you REALLY see any point in my attempting to "try harder" when you are convinced that organizations run by proud and loud liberal millionaires are actually controlled by shadowy evil corporate Republicans? Not to mention that arguably the most liberal member of the Senate might accidentally author a "very right-wing approach to cranking out little automatons that can pass tests while knowing almost nothing" because he was flawed and/or poorly informed? That's akin to stating that the John Birch Society is run by Communists. Honestly, even while denouncing me for asserting that liberals denounce capitalism you're asserting that the most visibly liberal institution this country has, our fourth estate, is actually an evil Republican force because they are <gasp> corporations?

No man short of Jesus need take a shot at that.

 

[Bowfinger]

Stop and think objectively for a moment. Do you REALLY see any point in my attempting to "try harder" when you are convinced that organizations run by proud and loud liberal millionaires are actually controlled by shadowy evil corporate Republicans? Not to mention that arguably the most liberal member of the Senate might accidentally author a "very right-wing approach to cranking out little automatons that can pass tests while knowing almost nothing" because he was flawed and/or poorly informed? That's akin to stating that the John Birch Society is run by Communists. Honestly, even while denouncing me for asserting that liberals denounce capitalism you're asserting that the most visibly liberal institution this country has, our fourth estate, is actually an evil Republican force because they are <gasp> corporations?

No man short of Jesus need take a shot at that.

Lots of hand waving, but I note you made no attempt whatsoever to address anything I said. It's pretty much what I expected.

 

[Joepublic2]

true. so has democrat, it used to mean a supporter of direct democracy and was considered slanderous by some.

It still is. The US is strong because it's a republic, not a democracy.

 

[Ausm]

Democrats have successfully taught children that capitalism is akin to having the freedom to !@#$ on people and loot the country. Who wouldn't be opposed to that concept?

Given the modern viral properties of group think, such a notion has become widespread. So long as you're recruited into their group you're going to hate the founding liberties of this nation. Anti-American is the new American.

They are not taught the economic and societal model that existed before American Capitalism. They've no idea that we are the progressed form of society. So now we're regressing back from individual ownership to state ownership. From diverse individuality to generic centralization.

Big government has come again after we worked so hard to escape it.

LMAO Republicans LOVE Big Goverment when it comes to Social issues.

 

[SandEagle]

capitalism poster from 100 years ago, still accurate today: