You know what I really like about Polls? I like that you can come up with a majority answer of "Vanilla Ice Cream" with the reported question "Do you like the current president of Peru?" It all depends on who you ask and the wording of the question you ask. I seriously doubt that there is a 2:1 margin for a balanced budget over cutting taxes if you were to poll every tax paying citizen of the US.
In the Last 50 Years, Republican presidents have done the majority of Deficit spending.
In Fact, In Recent Years, Clinton Was the First to force a balanced Budget. But that Was mainly due to the GOP congress attempting to force him to do something they didnt think was possible. It Was.
I agree with many above points.
Stop Spending
Cut Spending
Stop increasing Debt load.
Balance the budget
Pay off Debt.
Demlicans and Repubicrats continue To Pork this Country to death
Its The System Thats Flawed. Big Government = Big Coruption
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
At the end of the Reagan administration it was pretty apparent to everyone that the federal deficit situation had to be corrected. To their credit, both major parties in Congress worked together through both the (first) Bush and Clinton adminstrations to accomplish this goal, and they DID. For a group collectively reknown for their short term, pork inclined tendencies, this was remarkable.
Unfortunately that was all literally thrown away with this Bush. He is the most fiscally irresponsible, big-government promoting President I have had in my lifetime, which goes back to the Eisenhower days and includes LBJ. Just like most people understand the need to handle their personal finances in a responsible manner, we need an executive in charge of this country willing to do the same. I personally benefited from Bush's tax cuts but my children and grandchildren will pay the piper for this tenfold.
What really sickens me is how so many so-called conservative members of the GOP have sold out their principles (and Congressional votes) in favor of party loyalty.
I love my country. I hate to see it gutted for short term short term political popularity.
Unfortunately that was all literally thrown away with this Bush. He is the most fiscally irresponsible, big-government promoting President I have had in my lifetime, which goes back to the Eisenhower days and includes LBJ. Just like most people understand the need to handle their personal finances in a responsible manner, we need an executive in charge of this country willing to do the same. I personally benefited from Bush's tax cuts but my children and grandchildren will pay the piper for this tenfold.
What really sickens me is how so many so-called conservative members of the GOP have sold out their principles (and Congressional votes) in favor of party loyalty.
I love my country. I hate to see it gutted for short term short term political popularity.
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
if people really are that concerned you would think they would voluntarilly send in money, just like a charity...
for example they could figure out how much a 4% tax increase would amount to and send that amount in on their own initative. why wait for something so important to go through a bureaucractic witholding process?
Would that get you a waiver from having to pay taxes to cover the interest on debts that deficit spenders have accumulated? Or do you want people to pay their share of taxes now, and then pay your share of debts later on?
im sure most people would say that they prefer a balanced budget, but offer them a couple hundred dollars of 'free' cash from tax breaks and im sure they wouldnt complain.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
if people really are that concerned you would think they would voluntarilly send in money, just like a charity...
for example they could figure out how much a 4% tax increase would amount to and send that amount in on their own initative. why wait for something so important to go through a bureaucractic witholding process?
I thought this might amuse you
Treas link. Read section 4.2.!
"4.2) How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?
Please follow these important steps to make a contribution to reduce the debt.
Make check payable to the "Bureau of the Public Debt"
In the memo section of the check, make sure you write "Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public "
Mail check to -
ATTN DEPT G
BUREAU OF THE PUBLIC DEBT
P O BOX 2188
PARKERSBURG, WV 26106-2188"
This is the same site that lists the total current National debt as "$7,162,025,763,951.47."
Gee, lemme get out my checkbook (because I don't pay enough taxes already)...Yep here's $5. Only $7,162,025,763,946.47 left to go...
From Thump553-
"What really sickens me is how so many so-called conservative members of the GOP have sold out their principles (and Congressional votes) in favor of party loyalty.
I love my country. I hate to see it gutted for short term short term political popularity."
It's really more than that, I'm afraid- it's a form of looting and an attempt to "hobble the beast" of govt under insurmountable debt....
And from Charrison, in defense of the republicans-
"And they are still more fiscally responsable than most democrats. "
Only in your dreams. This was their big chance to show their true colors, controlling both the Legislative and the Executive branches of govt., and they did- shoveling out more pork than I can remember, while fanning the flames of hysteria to pork up the defense budget to obscene levels, cut taxes for the financial elite substantially. Yeh, they allowed for a little middle class complicity, just to make it look good... Dimes for the masses, Krugerrands for their sponsors...
"What really sickens me is how so many so-called conservative members of the GOP have sold out their principles (and Congressional votes) in favor of party loyalty.
I love my country. I hate to see it gutted for short term short term political popularity."
It's really more than that, I'm afraid- it's a form of looting and an attempt to "hobble the beast" of govt under insurmountable debt....
And from Charrison, in defense of the republicans-
"And they are still more fiscally responsable than most democrats. "
Only in your dreams. This was their big chance to show their true colors, controlling both the Legislative and the Executive branches of govt., and they did- shoveling out more pork than I can remember, while fanning the flames of hysteria to pork up the defense budget to obscene levels, cut taxes for the financial elite substantially. Yeh, they allowed for a little middle class complicity, just to make it look good... Dimes for the masses, Krugerrands for their sponsors...
You will not find me defending the republicans for the current budget mess. Nor will I defend the democrats for not filibustering the budget mess. There is enough blame in DC to go around and it has been that way for some time.
Who just increassed SS? I think that was Bush he spent what an additional 400 billion dollars and that was just the BS number and the real number will be about 600 billion.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
That was Medicare and the 600B is close to the number the left wanted
But yes - that too needs to be addressed. As I have stated numerous times - our whole "social welfare" system needs to be reformed and come under one dept and control with defined rules, regulations, and intentions. No more games with entitlements that suck us all dry because of tear-jerk politics.CkG
From Spencer278-
"Who just increased SS? I think that was Bush he spent what an additional 400 billion dollars and that was just the BS number and the real number will be about 600 billion."
That's just CkG attacking the usual windmill, trying to divert attention from the tax cuts that overwhelmingly favor the very wealthy. SS is actually a real moneymaker for the govt, taking in more than is sent out in benefits for the last 20 years. ~$1.4T to $1.8T of the national debt is actually owed to the SS trust, having already been spent on the military, corporate pork, more taxcuts for the super rich...
And what you're referring to is the so-called senior drug benefit thru medicare, entirely separate from SS. Don't worry, by the time the alleged benefits begin, the whole thing will have been changed around so much as to benefit nobody but big pharma, if it ever happens at all. Basic election year bait and switch- same as finding out that your tax "cut" was really just a tax "loan"....
"Who just increased SS? I think that was Bush he spent what an additional 400 billion dollars and that was just the BS number and the real number will be about 600 billion."
That's just CkG attacking the usual windmill, trying to divert attention from the tax cuts that overwhelmingly favor the very wealthy. SS is actually a real moneymaker for the govt, taking in more than is sent out in benefits for the last 20 years. ~$1.4T to $1.8T of the national debt is actually owed to the SS trust, having already been spent on the military, corporate pork, more taxcuts for the super rich...
And what you're referring to is the so-called senior drug benefit thru medicare, entirely separate from SS. Don't worry, by the time the alleged benefits begin, the whole thing will have been changed around so much as to benefit nobody but big pharma, if it ever happens at all. Basic election year bait and switch- same as finding out that your tax "cut" was really just a tax "loan"....
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I see you have the same ailment alot of your buddies have - a comprehension ailment. Ofcourse a wealth redistribution supporter like yourself doesn't want to talk about the SS scam and want to bash something that allows people to keep more of their own money(regardless of wealth). So sure - while you play the tear-jerking game - I'm working for real fiscal change in Washington. Our "social welfare" system is a mess and nothing more than a wealth redistribution system which takes from those who have - and gives to those who don't - by force. Now I don't have a problem with the gov't having things in place for those who CAN'T help themselves, but I will not stand for those who can but choose not to help themselves sucking from the gov't teat. SS falls into the latter of those two. SS is nothing but a mandatory retirement scam forced on the working people. Sure it is for more than just old people - but again there are other ways to help those who really NEED help instead of just expect help because the gov't provides it.
Nothing gets me more pissed than hearing people say they are "entitled" to money/programs/etc from the gov't. The Federal gov't is charged with very few things and it is my belief that if we are to ever break the cycle of bigger and bigger budgets and endless deficits -we must get back to when the gov't didn't try to cure every little ill in people's personal lives.
CkG
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Do you also suffer from the ailment I pointed out? You've been around long enough to know that I've bitched about the Fed's spending habits as a whole and no where have I said that I give Bush or Congress a pass on overspending. I will however work to try to get the Fed back in line with what it was originally charged with doing. I don't care which side does it as long as it starts to happen. Now if people really were as "concerned" about deficits and spending like they claim they are - they'd realize that spending is what has gotten us into this mess and that we need to change how we spend and what we spend on. But I suspect that it's mostly lip service being paid to this issue right now for partisan political purposes.
CkG
Well since you agree that the bunch that has been in power the last 4 years is a band of thieves, why would want to keep them looting the kitty?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I think we may have found the source of that comprehension ailment...the doctors will be with your shortly dave.
CkG
Pulling your chain is almost fun, CkG. I suppose that's because of your utter devotion to mindless far right catch phrases, and complete denial of some of History's most important lessons.
Income redistribution is the cornerstone of our shared prosperity, the way that our recent ancestors quite deliberately prevented a distribution of wealth and power common in the third world, and built the middle class. It makes Capitalism benefit the many, rather than just a very, very few. It's a feature common to all industrial democracies, and it's there for good reasons.
That's not to say that some balance isn't required, it is. Unfortunately, we've gone way past the balance point- the explosive growth of income and wealth among the top 1% of 1% of Americans over the last 20 years rather vividly illustrates the point, along with stagnant earnings for the lowest half.
Deficits maintain the illusion of prosperity, even as that transfer to the top accelerates. Basically, we borrow what we could have had as taxes, claim it's good for the economy. We complain about how big money has too great an effect on politics, and then praise our politicians for giving the wealthy more after tax income, which they use to buy politicians, and create more after tax income for themselves. There really are two Americas, and I think it's obvious whose interests the far right actually represents, and that's not the vast majority of Americans- people who go to work everyday for tiny slivers of the economic pie, CkG included. And we're continuously deluded into thinking that it's really the penny-ante moochers and lazy good for nothings causing all our problems, when we actually live in a system designed to extract wealth from the lowest strata and transfer it inexorable to the top. If there weren't some little guys getting something for nothing, they'd have to be created, just to maintain the distraction and the illusion.
So we're taught to identify SS as the problem, rather than entitlements gained through inheritance. We're taught that taxes are evil, and that tax shelters are good, even though the former will benefit many more americans than the latter. We're taught that the wealthy are smarter and work harder than the rest of us, when they're mostly just more fortunate. And we're taught that greed is good, making it easy to buy our votes and loyalty with crumbs from the taxcut feast currently enjoyed by those who need it the least.
What did you get, GkG, a coupla grand? Hope you choke on it, and on the venomous bile you regurgitate so frequently.
Income redistribution is the cornerstone of our shared prosperity, the way that our recent ancestors quite deliberately prevented a distribution of wealth and power common in the third world, and built the middle class. It makes Capitalism benefit the many, rather than just a very, very few. It's a feature common to all industrial democracies, and it's there for good reasons.
That's not to say that some balance isn't required, it is. Unfortunately, we've gone way past the balance point- the explosive growth of income and wealth among the top 1% of 1% of Americans over the last 20 years rather vividly illustrates the point, along with stagnant earnings for the lowest half.
Deficits maintain the illusion of prosperity, even as that transfer to the top accelerates. Basically, we borrow what we could have had as taxes, claim it's good for the economy. We complain about how big money has too great an effect on politics, and then praise our politicians for giving the wealthy more after tax income, which they use to buy politicians, and create more after tax income for themselves. There really are two Americas, and I think it's obvious whose interests the far right actually represents, and that's not the vast majority of Americans- people who go to work everyday for tiny slivers of the economic pie, CkG included. And we're continuously deluded into thinking that it's really the penny-ante moochers and lazy good for nothings causing all our problems, when we actually live in a system designed to extract wealth from the lowest strata and transfer it inexorable to the top. If there weren't some little guys getting something for nothing, they'd have to be created, just to maintain the distraction and the illusion.
So we're taught to identify SS as the problem, rather than entitlements gained through inheritance. We're taught that taxes are evil, and that tax shelters are good, even though the former will benefit many more americans than the latter. We're taught that the wealthy are smarter and work harder than the rest of us, when they're mostly just more fortunate. And we're taught that greed is good, making it easy to buy our votes and loyalty with crumbs from the taxcut feast currently enjoyed by those who need it the least.
What did you get, GkG, a coupla grand? Hope you choke on it, and on the venomous bile you regurgitate so frequently.
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