Americans Cower in Fear from Ragtag Terrorists

[Zephyr106]

Washington DC Security Measures

"My daughter used to run up the steps of the Capitol, turn around, spread her arms and say, `This is my city,' " said Dan Tangherlini, director of the municipal Department of Transportation. Now, the steps are off-limits to the public while construction continues on an underground visitor center that will serve as the Capitol's sole public entry point.

There's something wrong when you can't enter the front door of our own capital building. I'm not a fan of this living in fear stuff.

Zephyr

 

[conjur]

How else is the current Administration supposed to make us regular citizens think there is a real terror threat?

 

[Gaard]

My daughter used to run up the steps of the Capitol, turn around, spread her arms and say, `This is my city,'

Yo Adrian!

 

[heartsurgeon]

How else is the current Administration supposed to make us regular citizens think there is a real terror threat?

Are you suggesting that we have no exposure to any future terrorist actions? If you believe this, i think your judgement is contrary to viewpoints expressed by both Republicans and Democrats alike...if, you don't really believe this, then you are being very cynical about the loss of life of 9/11.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

How else is the current Administration supposed to make us regular citizens think there is a real terror threat?

Are you suggesting that we have no exposure to any future terrorist actions? If you believe this, i think your judgement is contrary to viewpoints expressed by both Republicans and Democrats alike...if, you don't really believe this, then you are being very cynical about the loss of life of 9/11.

What I'm saying is that the lengths to which the current Administration has pushed for "security measures" is ridiculous. If terrorists want to attack American soil again, they will find a way. Checkpoints at airports, gov't buildings, etc. aren't going to capture Al Qaeda. They might grab someone inadvertently bringing drugs or guns in with them but that's not terrorism now, is it?

It's a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[b0mbrman]

Meh...it's a knee jerk reaction the people wanted. The HMMWV's on the bridges, the uniformed soldiers in the airports--there's no question these were more to make people feel warm and fuzzy and not to really stop anyone...I'm sure you could make the argument that such things are past their time.

However, you can hardly blame the government for erring on the side of safety--if no terrorist attacks happen again, a few people will roll their eyes whereas if another attack happens and it doesn't look like every precaution was taken, the people will be enraged.

BTW, how come no one blames the terrorists when they complain about not being able to climb the Capitol steps? Surely some of the new measures are their fault, right?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Meh...it's a knee jerk reaction the people wanted. The HMMWV's on the bridges, the uniformed soldiers in the airports--there's no question these were more to make people feel warm and fuzzy and not to really stop anyone...I'm sure you could make the argument that such things are past their time.

However, you can hardly blame the government for erring on the side of safety--if no terrorist attacks happen again, a few people will roll their eyes whereas if another attack happens and it doesn't look like every precaution was taken, the people will be enraged.

BTW, how come no one blames the terrorists when they complain about not being able to climb the Capitol steps? Surely some of the new measures are their fault, right?

Short Term memory loss.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Terrorists can only kill people, this country's reaction to that lays solely on us. We are doing exactly what they want, sacrificing freedom for 'security.'

 

[b0mbrman]

I'm sure getting my nail clippers taken away is pretty low on Osama's list of priorities.

 

[Romans828]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

How else is the current Administration supposed to make us regular citizens think there is a real terror threat?

Are you suggesting that we have no exposure to any future terrorist actions? If you believe this, i think your judgement is contrary to viewpoints expressed by both Republicans and Democrats alike...if, you don't really believe this, then you are being very cynical about the loss of life of 9/11.

What I'm saying is that the lengths to which the current Administration has pushed for "security measures" is ridiculous. If terrorists want to attack American soil again, they will find a way. Checkpoints at airports, gov't buildings, etc. aren't going to capture Al Qaeda. They might grab someone inadvertently bringing drugs or guns in with them but that's not terrorism now, is it?

It's a knee-jerk reaction.

Looks like conjur is an expert in security along with everthing else around here

 

[b0mbrman]

Heh heh...

So how do we prevent terrorism? It's fun to complain about the current system in place but it actually takes some amount of thinking to conjur up an idea that works

(Tee hee. I'm clever...)

 

[Pliablemoose]

I was in DC ~10 years ago & was awed @ how lax the security was. It was after OKC bombing & there were a few barricades up & a couple of metal detectors.

My local county courthouse is more secure.

 

[sandorski]

Making people hate you is not a good way to prevent terrorism.

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Meh...it's a knee jerk reaction the people wanted. The HMMWV's on the bridges, the uniformed soldiers in the airports--there's no question these were more to make people feel warm and fuzzy and not to really stop anyone...I'm sure you could make the argument that such things are past their time.

However, you can hardly blame the government for erring on the side of safety--if no terrorist attacks happen again, a few people will roll their eyes whereas if another attack happens and it doesn't look like every precaution was taken, the people will be enraged.

BTW, how come no one blames the terrorists when they complain about not being able to climb the Capitol steps? Surely some of the new measures are their fault, right?

Short Term memory loss.

If you are implying that anyone who doesn't blindly support intrusive knee-jerk feel-good baby-pacifier-style security measures has forgotten about the 9/11 terror attacks, you are a fool and are gravely mistaken. Yes that is a personal insult, I am insulting your reasoning skills. The terrorists will find a way to terrorize people if they really want to, and the US must find a balance between prudent security measures and intrusive changes in life. I consider not being allowed to walk in the front door of my government's capitol building, extremely intrusive and superficial.

The aim of terrorists is to instill fear in the lives of their victims. If we excessively change our lifestyles in response to this, they have accomplished their mission. I don't want to live in fear behind walls with guards everywhere like the Israelis. I'd much rather be proactive, hunt down terrorists to kill or try them. Also, work within reason to remove the grievances that Muslims have that contribute greatly to animosity and terrorist recruitment against us, as part of an attempt to win the hearts and minds of Muslims to end the terrorist threat from that region.

Just as the terrorists aim to instill fear in us, many in the US hope for Americans to remain fearful for various reasons. Be it political, i.e. I am the only one who can protect you, or economic in the case of defense contractors who undeniably have an interest in perpetual conflict and fear-driven-security measures. For America to not become a sniveling coward police state, we must work against the fear-mongers at home and abroad.

Zephyr

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Making people hate you is not a good way to prevent terrorism.

So what is a good way?

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Meh...it's a knee jerk reaction the people wanted. The HMMWV's on the bridges, the uniformed soldiers in the airports--there's no question these were more to make people feel warm and fuzzy and not to really stop anyone...I'm sure you could make the argument that such things are past their time.

However, you can hardly blame the government for erring on the side of safety--if no terrorist attacks happen again, a few people will roll their eyes whereas if another attack happens and it doesn't look like every precaution was taken, the people will be enraged.

BTW, how come no one blames the terrorists when they complain about not being able to climb the Capitol steps? Surely some of the new measures are their fault, right?

Short Term memory loss.

If you are implying that anyone who doesn't blindly support intrusive knee-jerk feel-good baby-pacifier-style security measures has forgotten about the 9/11 terror attacks, you are a fool and are gravely mistaken. Yes that is a personal insult, I am insulting your reasoning skills. The terrorists will find a way to terrorize people if they really want to, and the US must find a balance between prudent security measures and intrusive changes in life. I consider not being allowed to walk in the front door of my government's capitol building, extremely intrusive and superficial.

The aim of terrorists is to instill fear in the lives of their victims. If we excessively change our lifestyles in response to this, they have accomplished their mission. I don't want to live in fear behind walls with guards everywhere like the Israelis. I'd much rather be proactive, hunt down terrorists to kill or try them. Also, work within reason to remove the grievances that Muslims have that contribute greatly to animosity and terrorist recruitment against us, as part of an attempt to win the hearts and minds of Muslims to end the terrorist threat from that region.

Just as the terrorists aim to instill fear in us, many in the US hope for Americans to remain fearful for various reasons. Be it political, i.e. I am the only one who can protect you, or economic in the case of defense contractors who undeniably have an interest in perpetual conflict and fear-driven-security measures. For America to not become a sniveling coward police state, we must work against the fear-mongers at home and abroad.

Zephyr

So what would you recommend to prevent terrorism?

 

[kylebisme]

i think that if we could manage to get our government to stop being aparty to the opression and explotation various societies around the world, that would do wonders in dimminishing the hostility towards us.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well, Romans828, I'm confident that the 9/11 bombers weren't exactly security experts, either- they simply applied some ingenuity and unanticipated methodology to what they saw as a glaring security loophole.

Our own "Security Experts" got caught with their pants down- we'd never seriously considered that suicide bombers might use airliners as weapons. That's now over, regardless of whatever the govt does- a planeload of nuns and girlscouts would rip any would-be hijackers to pieces, or die trying, and improved inflight procedures and reinforced cockpit doors pretty much cover the rest.

The rest of what we see is pure illusion, a show conjured up to keep us afraid and in awe of the "Great Leader" who led us through the crisis. In truth, the real crisis was over by the time he heard about it, the PR crisis just beginning. Given lemons, they're making lemonade.

Malarkey. Other than deporting a few thousand undocumented aliens from Islamic countries, the visible domestic side of the WoT hasn't made much difference, other than to condition us to accept repression and secrecy as being for our own good.

9/11 has been exploited and abused to serve a pre-existing agenda in ways shameless and absurd. It's been a Godsend for the Bushies, Manna from Heaven. Recession? blame it on 9/11. Larger more aggressive and expensive military? 9/11! Iraq? 9/11! Deficits? 9/11! Taxcuts? 9/11 is as good an excuse as any... Secrecy? 9/11! Patriot Act? 9/11!

This was stuff they wanted in the beginning, even before 9/11...

They've puffed up the terrorist boogeyman to gigantic proportions. Anybody notice how the terror color wheel goes to orange everytime they're sleazing something thru under the surface? Or we start talking trash about the NKoreans when the Bushies want to spend a few billion on NMD or development of new Nukes?

I'm offering 3 to 1 odds that the terrar wheel will land on orange or higher within two weeks of the election, just as a reminder... Any takers?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Romans828

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

How else is the current Administration supposed to make us regular citizens think there is a real terror threat?

Are you suggesting that we have no exposure to any future terrorist actions? If you believe this, i think your judgement is contrary to viewpoints expressed by both Republicans and Democrats alike...if, you don't really believe this, then you are being very cynical about the loss of life of 9/11.

What I'm saying is that the lengths to which the current Administration has pushed for "security measures" is ridiculous. If terrorists want to attack American soil again, they will find a way. Checkpoints at airports, gov't buildings, etc. aren't going to capture Al Qaeda. They might grab someone inadvertently bringing drugs or guns in with them but that's not terrorism now, is it?

It's a knee-jerk reaction.

Looks like conjur is an expert in security along with everthing else around here

I just like to point out the obvious for people, like yourself, who suffer blindness from extended narrow-mindedness.

 

[b0mbrman]

Well, Romans828, I'm confident that the 9/11 bombers weren't exactly security experts, either- they simply applied some ingenuity and unanticipated methodology to what they saw as a glaring security loophole.

I'd actually say the planners were experts. Or at the bare minimum, they were of average intelligence and did lots of research.

By the way, what makes them bombers?

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Meh...it's a knee jerk reaction the people wanted. The HMMWV's on the bridges, the uniformed soldiers in the airports--there's no question these were more to make people feel warm and fuzzy and not to really stop anyone...I'm sure you could make the argument that such things are past their time.

However, you can hardly blame the government for erring on the side of safety--if no terrorist attacks happen again, a few people will roll their eyes whereas if another attack happens and it doesn't look like every precaution was taken, the people will be enraged.

BTW, how come no one blames the terrorists when they complain about not being able to climb the Capitol steps? Surely some of the new measures are their fault, right?

Short Term memory loss.

If you are implying that anyone who doesn't blindly support intrusive knee-jerk feel-good baby-pacifier-style security measures has forgotten about the 9/11 terror attacks, you are a fool and are gravely mistaken. Yes that is a personal insult, I am insulting your reasoning skills. The terrorists will find a way to terrorize people if they really want to, and the US must find a balance between prudent security measures and intrusive changes in life. I consider not being allowed to walk in the front door of my government's capitol building, extremely intrusive and superficial.

The aim of terrorists is to instill fear in the lives of their victims. If we excessively change our lifestyles in response to this, they have accomplished their mission. I don't want to live in fear behind walls with guards everywhere like the Israelis. I'd much rather be proactive, hunt down terrorists to kill or try them. Also, work within reason to remove the grievances that Muslims have that contribute greatly to animosity and terrorist recruitment against us, as part of an attempt to win the hearts and minds of Muslims to end the terrorist threat from that region.

Just as the terrorists aim to instill fear in us, many in the US hope for Americans to remain fearful for various reasons. Be it political, i.e. I am the only one who can protect you, or economic in the case of defense contractors who undeniably have an interest in perpetual conflict and fear-driven-security measures. For America to not become a sniveling coward police state, we must work against the fear-mongers at home and abroad.

Zephyr

So what would you recommend to prevent terrorism?

Increased reading comprehension taught in America's schools. I listed several things in my post:

Increased security measures - a balance must be struck between added measures and infringing on our lives, and I feel that closing the front steps to the capitol infringes on our lives.

Hunting down terrorists to either try them or kill them.

Eliminating the grievances Muslims have against us, to a point that is acceptable to the American people. Such as removing soldiers from Saudi Arabia (already done), and doing something to get some real change in the Israeli Palestinian situation. Expediently sorting out the jokers in Guatanamo. Instead of holding them, including some American citizens, indefinately without charges.

Zephyr

 

[b0mbrman]

This is all I saw that even remotely resembles an alternative

I'd much rather be proactive, hunt down terrorists to kill or try them.Also, work within reason to remove the grievances that Muslims have that contribute greatly to animosity and terrorist recruitment against us, as part of an attempt to win the hearts and minds of Muslims to end the terrorist threat from that region.

Could you be a little more vague?

I wish that the solution was as simple as hunting down terrorists and win hearsts and minds of Muslims worldwide. What happens if the terrorist isnt at the address he lists in the phonebook or even worse, what happens when new terrorists are recruited?

And how do you propose we make all Muslims worldwide happy?

Anyhow...If you're as quick as you are in finding the solution to America's security problems as you are quick to insult other ATers, I'm sure we have nothing to worry about

 

[Jhhnn]

The 9/11 perpetrators used the airliners and their 20,000 pound fuel loads as flying bombs, a pre-packaged form of napalm. Hence the term Bomber, feel free to call it what you want.

Even though the term is largely overused, what the 9/11 attackers did was to change the paradigm, think outside the box, employ insight and exploit human nature to achieve their ends. The actual amount of training and planning was really rather small, compared to the brilliance of the conceptualization...

By and large, I'll agree with Zephyr106. We haven't found the political will to deal effectively with the lowest common denominator for anti-american sentiment in the Islamic World, that being the Israeli-Palestinian situation. We've created another with our occupation of Iraq and to a lesser extent, Afghanistan. The latter situation is largely of our own making and a political imperative, unfortunately. Even after the fall of the Shah, and the ascendancy of radical islamists to control of that country, we still thought we could use such sentiment, exploit it against the soviets, then conveniently forget those we'd helped to indoctrinate. Wrong-O. Globalization has consequences beyond quick profits...

We had the world's most powerful military on 9/11, and it didn't help a bit, nor will it except in situations like Afghanistan. There is, at this point, no government reckless enough to harbor terrorists intending to attack the US, other than unknowingly... which puts the conflict into the realm of intelligence and international law enforcement...

 

[Romans828]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Romans828

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

How else is the current Administration supposed to make us regular citizens think there is a real terror threat?

Are you suggesting that we have no exposure to any future terrorist actions? If you believe this, i think your judgement is contrary to viewpoints expressed by both Republicans and Democrats alike...if, you don't really believe this, then you are being very cynical about the loss of life of 9/11.

What I'm saying is that the lengths to which the current Administration has pushed for "security measures" is ridiculous. If terrorists want to attack American soil again, they will find a way. Checkpoints at airports, gov't buildings, etc. aren't going to capture Al Qaeda. They might grab someone inadvertently bringing drugs or guns in with them but that's not terrorism now, is it?

It's a knee-jerk reaction.

Looks like conjur is an expert in security along with everthing else around here

I just like to point out the obvious for people, like yourself, who suffer blindness from extended
narrow-mindedness.

And I thought my blindness came from not stopping xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx like my mother said

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Romans828

Originally posted by: conjur
I just like to point out the obvious for people, like yourself, who suffer blindness from extended
narrow-mindedness.

And I thought my blindness came from not stopping xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx like my mother said

Silly Christian!