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Americans are Lazy! And, it's Hurting the Economy.

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I'm sort of failing to connect some pretty far spaced dots here. I understand and agree with most of his bullet points but don't follow them as necessarily a chained string of interactions. Innovation is tough because good ideas either get challenged legally or bought up and destroyed by larger companies. People are hesitant to take self employed careers because health care is prohibitively expensive and housing costs have risen so high many households can't afford for one of the income earners to go out and risk their financial future on a startup.

There's been a huge shift in income bands. The middle class shifted down to lower middle, and up to upper middle. The "true" middle shrunk. We wanted cheap replaceable shit from China to fill up our cheap built homes and our healthcare and other standards of living have become so prohibitively expensive that companies left expensive American labor behind and went north and south to Canada(GM and Chrysler) and Mexico (Ford, Cat and a pile of other manufacturing) to build their stuff.

Good points. They underscore what is wrong with Cowen's analysis. He sees certain trends and designates them a function of laziness without exploring the root causes. I highly doubt we suddenly just got lazy, and if we did, I'd like to know why. Seems more likely that economic conditions such as you describe above are what really explains these behavioral trends.
 
Bullshit I started my business with nothing.
Classic conservative fallacy. I started with nothing. Really? Nothing? Did you have two parents or just one? Did you have one or 2 siblings growing up or 6? Did you have food on the table as a child or did you go to bed hungry? Were you able to get a good night's rest after school or did bullets fly in the streets just below your window? A lot of people wish they could have started with nothing, a blank slate, a zero handicap, a fair shake at things.
 
The difference between me an trump is I'm not out to screw any one. I just want to go to work and not have to deal with morning meetings and drug tests.

In my 20's I would've been dead by now with 200m, in my thirties I just want a fixer upper in the woods and an atv. Honestly its whats made me comfortable with what I have too. I don't know what'd I do with more, I almost feel like if I start making too much money I'll be depressed because it won't make me happy. I like having more to strive for and I don't want to be a schmuck striving for a 335i.
Trump uses the same rational. He's not out to screw anyone, just personal gain.

You make the false assumption that making more money means keeping up with the joneses. It's not the case for everyone.

My family doesn't live extravagant lives. No big fancy anything.

How's the view from you high horse? You feel good looking down on others for wanting more, and working their ass off to get it? Or in USA'S case, funneling it to the 1%.
 
I'm sort of failing to connect some pretty far spaced dots here. I understand and agree with most of his bullet points but don't follow them as necessarily a chained string of interactions. Innovation is tough because good ideas either get challenged legally or bought up and destroyed by larger companies. People are hesitant to take self employed careers because health care is prohibitively expensive and housing costs have risen so high many households can't afford for one of the income earners to go out and risk their financial future on a startup.

There's been a huge shift in income bands. The middle class shifted down to lower middle, and up to upper middle. The "true" middle shrunk. We wanted cheap replaceable shit from China to fill up our cheap built homes and our healthcare and other standards of living have become so prohibitively expensive that companies left expensive American labor behind and went north and south to Canada(GM and Chrysler) and Mexico (Ford, Cat and a pile of other manufacturing) to build their stuff.

Great points. There are always outliers where individuals move seemingly without barriers, but I think we have to look at the data as a whole. Wage growth has declined since the 70s, and it has really stagnated since 2007. That means less financial cushion as a whole, and fewer people willing to take the risk of opening their own business.

In my own field personally, there has been significant wage stagnation.
 
Lot of haters in this thread for the self-employed, like the automatic assumption we are are criminals and tax cheats. I live on the East Coast and have had more than one year in the past decade when my taxable income was south of $30k. We learn to bank for the lean times and not run out to buy the latest and greatest toys. And political belief has nothing to do with it-I (and many other self employed people I know) are firm liberals while nearly every Trump supporter I know is on disability or a government pension (or SS) with government paid healthcare, etc.
 
Lot of haters in this thread for the self-employed, like the automatic assumption we are are criminals and tax cheats. I live on the East Coast and have had more than one year in the past decade when my taxable income was south of $30k. We learn to bank for the lean times and not run out to buy the latest and greatest toys. And political belief has nothing to do with it-I (and many other self employed people I know) are firm liberals while nearly every Trump supporter I know is on disability or a government pension (or SS) with government paid healthcare, etc.

Not really seeing the hate on self employed. Just one poster that was rather forward with some claims of dubious behavior and took some heat for that. Not seeing anything beyond that.
 
My brother in law and many other owners of small pharmacies have Obamacare to thank for putting them out of business. So what remains? CVS, Walgreens, Rite-Aid...

what the hell? You think that wasn't happening more than a decade or two ago? 😀

lol--you can't be serious, or your BIL and his buddies in the small pharmacy business are completely full of shit if they claim that the ACA is what forced them out due to Walgreens, CVS, Rite-Aid decades prior to the ACA even being a fart in the wind.

Holy create-an-argument-that's-boldly-anachronistic, Batman!
 
Not really seeing the hate on self employed. Just one poster that was rather forward with some claims of dubious behavior and took some heat for that. Not seeing anything beyond that.
Self employed people, legit, on the books, those are some hard workers.
 
Self employed people, legit, on the books, those are some hard workers.
Funny story, knew a guy when I lived in SC, ran a trailer park of rentals, worked his ass off to maintain everything, chase down deadbeats, etc. Started mowing the lawns for people there on the side, and within a year he was making more doing that part time than full-time management of property, so he shifted entirely to just mowing lawns. Made north of $60k in a *very* low cost of living area, stress free (had more work than he knew what to do with).
 
Awesome, in a way I'm envious, mowing lawns and landscaping is something I'm getting into as a hobby lol

After fighting with a server for the last five hours that decided to shit itself after a patch restart, yeah, I'd rather be in the sunshine with a lemonade riding on a mini tractor instead too.
 
You're ridiculous.


This was awesome. A couple months ago I took this chick out to dinner on a first date. I said something stupid I'm sure, she paused and looked up at me and said your trouble. From then on I've been trying to get it to catch on at work. Telling things and people they're trouble. It never caught on but the guys love your ridiculous. We were saying it all day.
 
Self employed people, legit, on the books, those are some hard workers.

I thought it was well known that small business owners in general had a propensity to break the law. In reality there are so many laws these days you can't obey them all. I've worked for a number of contractors non of them have ever been 100% legit. Right now the big thing is calling employees independent contractors to avoid payroll, insurance and workmans comp.
 
While that may be the case, shitting on others who work hard and play by the rules is pretty ignorant.

And a gross misunderstanding of CoL variances, which I hope I helped you gain some knowledge with 🙂
 
lol wth--you admit to tax fraud, then blame the "welfare queen" boogeyman for the evils in our country?

what a bizzarro thread. 😀

Well one doesn't contribute a thing to society. The government shouldn't be able to steal my money and give it to someone else. They're not robin hood.
 
LoL, you just referenced yourself as "the rich" in that analogy.

Taxes aren't theft.

And it's been proven that not letting people live destitute is great for our country.
 
While that may be the case, shitting on others who work hard and play by the rules is pretty ignorant.

And a gross misunderstanding of CoL variances, which I hope I helped you gain some knowledge with 🙂

Your acting like just because I don't obey every single law on the books I must not work hard. Thats what I'm about I just want to go to work without big brother butting in where they don't belong. Just like I don't need god to have morals, I don't need the government to do my job right.

I understand the whole cost of living deal. I don't think you understand how cheap I live to be set on 30k a year. I don't have kids. All my furniture. tools and such are bought used. My computer is a budget build and my tv was a gift from my parents. I don't have cable and went without a tv for like 6 months at one point. My truck has 200k the car 140k the other truck is parked in the yard and used as a shed.
 
LoL, you just referenced yourself as "the rich" in that analogy.

Taxes aren't theft.

And it's been proven that not letting people live destitute is great for our country.

Ha I didn't mean it like that. I do feel well off. It kills me when people that make twice as much as me and live in the same area complain they don't make enough.
 
I get customers all the time in mcmansions with luxury cars out front. They freak out over $300 to fix there furnace and ask if I take credit card.

I left out the part where my house was a cheap foreclosure and wasn't livable until I fixed it up and its still a work in progress.
 
Your acting like just because I don't obey every single law on the books I must not work hard. Thats what I'm about I just want to go to work without big brother butting in where they don't belong. Just like I don't need god to have morals, I don't need the government to do my job right.
Lots of criminals work really hard. Doesn't make them right.
went without a tv for like 6 months at one point.
You poor, poor thing.
 
If you ever come thru cincy pm you can come see how I live and have some beers with me. I'm not as big of an asshole in real life. People always think I'm an asshole over the computer and text. My sense of humor works better in person.
 
Your acting like just because I don't obey every single law on the books I must not work hard.

I never said that. In fact, you start out with a long post about how anyone who isn't doing it like you must not be working hard, or mismanaging money, or on government assistance

Thats what I'm about I just want to go to work without big brother butting in where they don't belong. Just like I don't need god to have morals, I don't need the government to do my job right.

Good, because there is no God. As for the government, well....there's laws, rules, regulations in place for a reason. If you don't like that, run for office and change it.

I understand the whole cost of living deal. I don't think you understand how cheap I live to be set on 30k a year. I don't have kids. All my furniture. tools and such are bought used. My computer is a budget build and my tv was a gift from my parents. I don't have cable and went without a tv for like 6 months at one point. My truck has 200k the car 140k the other truck is parked in the yard and used as a shed.

I very much understand. My parents raised me, barely financially supported us, and I entered adulthood without a penny to my name. I'm not going to go through my history, but working hard has been a part of it all along....and I did catch a break that has gotten me to where I am today...giving my two kids a better life than I had, while still remembering what having nothing was like and choose not to smother my kids with crap they don't need. At the same time, I indulge in hobbies with them because I'm their dad. So yea, we spend some money sometimes, but we are by no means a measure of "success" in the worldly possession realm.

Keep on working hard, and enjoy life...if you can do that then you're better off than many.
 
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