American troops are being blackmailed!

[piasabird]

Soldiers should take this up with their Command Sargeant Major, Immidiate commander and First Sergeant. If they are not satisfied with that they can consult with the Inspector General's office or contact the Command Seargean Major of the Army or write their senator.

When you join the military, it is a normal assumption that if a war starts you may have to go.

What I see here is that Washington is unwilling to call up a draft. I still think it takes intervention from the Post Commander or someone high up in the chain of command to start moving people around and that they would not change policy unless they were being preasured by someone else. Military units dont have authority to just transfer you to a new unit, that takes at leas a Battallion or Brigade commander, or post commander to make that kind of decison.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Cannon fodder.

"My Views of the United States' Soldiers" --by Moombeam. The NYT would probably put you at #1 if you put out a book with your throughts on soldiers, Moonbeam...could help offset the costs of your monthly Mother Jones mags...

 

[piasabird]

If they really start doing this people will just start going AWOL.

This gives new meaning to the All-Volunteer Army!

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Siwy
I don?t think some of you have considered the negative consequences of blackmailing soldiers into service. It is extremely dangerous to have a division on the battle field, where one group of soldiers is not willing to fight ~ because of simple exhaustion or even worse, psychological problems.

When one signs on the dotted line, one agrees to 8 years of service - X years active, X years Ready Reserve. Some soldiers have been involuntarily extended past their initial term of service. Army PERSCOM says that attempts are made to preclude previously extended, active-duty soldiers from redeploying to Iraq.

Indeed, leaders generally take factors such as fatigue, psychological disorders and personal problems into consideration before deploying a soldier with their unit. During deployments, soldiers are monitored too. For example, from April 03 to March 04, over 5,000 soldiers returned early from Iraq to the US/home station not because wounds/injuries but rather on account of personal or psychological problems.

It might be time to send some replacements ~ it could be called 101st Keyboarder Division, made up of all the loudmouths on these forums who are so vocal in support of war.

Hmmm?on the other hand, I don?t think we would want to see a bunch of useless idiots with guns, running through Iraqi cities.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yet another sophomorically juvenile rant based on no clue of how the system operates. If you think you can contribute as much or more than the "loudmouths on these forums", then I'm sure an Armed Forces recruiter would be happy to discuss the situation.

EDIT: Missing sentence.

It seems that soldiers feel like they are being blackmailed, strong-armed or whatever you want to call it.

"They're screwing with a lot of soldiers' lives right now. They said that if we didn't re-enlist, we would be sent to the 3rd ACR (Armored Cavalry Regiment), which is leaving for Iraq, or 'We will send you to another unit that's going to Iraq."'

A 24-year-old sergeant said he had already signed a paper saying he would not re-enlist or extend his service. "They said, 'You're already going to Iraq,' and they ripped up my paper," said the soldier, who also requested that his name not be used.

Source: GIs decry recruiting tactics

What I do not understand is that with such a strong at-home support for war, the army has so much trouble recruiting soldiers to go fight for Iraqi freedom. Could it be that all the supporters are simply a bunch of lily-livered weenies, or maybe the support for war is exaggerated?

 

[piasabird]

I think we should consider the War "SUNK COST", and just pull out and tell them they can kill each other till the Cows Come Home. Iraq does not want us there and we should just leave from all locations in the middle east. Let the Arabs and Muslims solve their own problems.

 

[Uhtrinity]

But, but, what about all that helpless oil ..... 🙂 <sarc>

 

[MaxFusion16]

Originally posted by: Siwy

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Siwy
I don?t think some of you have considered the negative consequences of blackmailing soldiers into service. It is extremely dangerous to have a division on the battle field, where one group of soldiers is not willing to fight ~ because of simple exhaustion or even worse, psychological problems.

When one signs on the dotted line, one agrees to 8 years of service - X years active, X years Ready Reserve. Some soldiers have been involuntarily extended past their initial term of service. Army PERSCOM says that attempts are made to preclude previously extended, active-duty soldiers from redeploying to Iraq.

Indeed, leaders generally take factors such as fatigue, psychological disorders and personal problems into consideration before deploying a soldier with their unit. During deployments, soldiers are monitored too. For example, from April 03 to March 04, over 5,000 soldiers returned early from Iraq to the US/home station not because wounds/injuries but rather on account of personal or psychological problems.

It might be time to send some replacements ~ it could be called 101st Keyboarder Division, made up of all the loudmouths on these forums who are so vocal in support of war.

Hmmm?on the other hand, I don?t think we would want to see a bunch of useless idiots with guns, running through Iraqi cities.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yet another sophomorically juvenile rant based on no clue of how the system operates. If you think you can contribute as much or more than the "loudmouths on these forums", then I'm sure an Armed Forces recruiter would be happy to discuss the situation.

EDIT: Missing sentence.

It seems that soldiers feel like they are being blackmailed, strong-armed or whatever you want to call it.

"They're screwing with a lot of soldiers' lives right now. They said that if we didn't re-enlist, we would be sent to the 3rd ACR (Armored Cavalry Regiment), which is leaving for Iraq, or 'We will send you to another unit that's going to Iraq."'

A 24-year-old sergeant said he had already signed a paper saying he would not re-enlist or extend his service. "They said, 'You're already going to Iraq,' and they ripped up my paper," said the soldier, who also requested that his name not be used.

Source: GIs decry recruiting tactics

What I do not understand is that with such a strong at-home support for war, the army has so much trouble recruiting soldiers to go fight for Iraqi freedom. Could it be that all the supporters are simply a bunch of lily-livered weenies, or maybe the support for war is exaggerated?

the have's are doing the support while the have not's are doing the dying...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Cannon fodder.

"My Views of the United States' Soldiers" --by Moombeam. The NYT would probably put you at #1 if you put out a book with your throughts on soldiers, Moonbeam...could help offset the costs of your monthly Mother Jones mags...

As a stereotypical thinker it's natural that you would interpret what stands without amendment in your stereotypical way. That was not my view of the soldier however. It was my view of the Bush view of the soldier.

Also I have never read a Mother Jones magazine but was under the impression that they were free. I checked out the website just now out of curiosity. My my they won an award in 2001 for excellence. All sorts of interesting stuff. Something by Noam Chomsky too I see. Goodness or should I say nice. I will bookmark the site. One can never be too informed, I hear.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Siwy
Re-enlist for 3 years or be send to Iraq (after serving there for over a year)? Which one would you chose?

Soldiers say they are being threatened with Iraq duty

We are fighting such an "honorable" war that is being led by such a "great" war president that Ifail to understand why they can't get enough volunteers? Doesn't any one care about the poor. opressed Iraqi's?

I read in this forum of Bush's big lead in the poll's, surely he has enough young supporters willing to fight this war for him?? Or are they just abunch of hypocritical ChickenHawks like their fearless leaders?

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Soldiers should take this up with their Command Sargeant Major, Immidiate commander and First Sergeant. If they are not satisfied with that they can consult with the Inspector General's office or contact the Command Seargean Major of the Army or write their senator.

When you join the military, it is a normal assumption that if a war starts you may have to go.

What I see here is that Washington is unwilling to call up a draft. I still think it takes intervention from the Post Commander or someone high up in the chain of command to start moving people around and that they would not change policy unless they were being preasured by someone else. Military units dont have authority to just transfer you to a new unit, that takes at leas a Battallion or Brigade commander, or post commander to make that kind of decison.

Here's what happens. If the soldier is too short to deploy with the unit, his name is consequently given to division. The Bn and Bde Cdrs must sign off on the memo because, although the action originates at PAC, any action requires the Cdr's signature.

Division decides to either A) reassign him to another local unit or B) put him on levy for a short tour, which in this case would be Korea.

If the soldier falls into a certain window of time in service remaining, then he'll likely deploy with the unit.

The Reup NCOs giving the briefing were a probably bit too aggressive in their approach. However, speaking from experience, you can't believe everything Pvt Joe Snuffy says either.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Siwy

It seems that soldiers feel like they are being blackmailed, strong-armed or whatever you want to call it.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, forces any civilian in this country to enlist in the Armed Forces. Once a person enlists, however, a service-related obligation then becomes mandatory.

"They're screwing with a lot of soldiers' lives right now. They said that if we didn't re-enlist, we would be sent to the 3rd ACR (Armored Cavalry Regiment), which is leaving for Iraq, or 'We will send you to another unit that's going to Iraq."'

Anectdotal. He said/she said.

A 24-year-old sergeant said he had already signed a paper saying he would not re-enlist or extend his service. "They said, 'You're already going to Iraq,' and they ripped up my paper," said the soldier, who also requested that his name not be used.

The soldier either signed a "Dec" (Declination of Continued Service) statement or a Bar to Reenlistment. What I'd like to know is the ETS date of both soldiers.

Source: GIs decry recruiting tactics

What I do not understand is that with such a strong at-home support for war, the army has so much trouble recruiting soldiers to go fight for Iraqi freedom. Could it be that all the supporters are simply a bunch of lily-livered weenies, or maybe the support for war is exaggerated?

USAREC is currently meeting recruiting and retention goals, the last I heard.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Burnedout, where did you PCS to after Baumholder, Germany? Fort Hood?

 

[burnedout]

Burnedout, where did you PCS to after Baumholder, Germany? Fort Hood?

Yup, "Da Hood".

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Judging from the responses, am I to assume none of you have been stationed in a rapid deployment unit, or served in a critical MOS?

I don't think the troops (who are reporting this) are as stupid as implied. They know the difference between blackmail and SOS.

 

[Rogue]

I think these troops got worked up and spouted off some rhetoric to the press that the press ran with. I've been in the Army Reserve for nearly 10 years now and just re-enlisted for 6 more last year. We're told constantly that it's not "if" you go to Iraq, but "when". I suppose that could be taken as a threat by some people, but when you join the military, you give up a little freedom for everyone else, at least that's the way I've always looked at it. Right now it's not uncommon that a soldier spends a year in Iraq with one unit, comes home for several months (usually 6 or more), changes duty stations and goes straight to a unit that's on their way over there. It happens, it sucks for most people, but that's the system, deal with it. I wait almost every day to get my orders sent to me and I've already done two years on Active Duty. Granted, it was stateside, but as an MP, I'm just waiting to backfill another unit or something else. The climate right now is that EVERYONE knows their chances of going, no matter their status, are pretty high.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Rogue
I think these troops got worked up and spouted off some rhetoric to the press that the press ran with. I've been in the Army Reserve for nearly 10 years now and just re-enlisted for 6 more last year. We're told constantly that it's not "if" you go to Iraq, but "when". I suppose that could be taken as a threat by some people, but when you join the military, you give up a little freedom for everyone else, at least that's the way I've always looked at it. Right now it's not uncommon that a soldier spends a year in Iraq with one unit, comes home for several months (usually 6 or more), changes duty stations and goes straight to a unit that's on their way over there. It happens, it sucks for most people, but that's the system, deal with it. I wait almost every day to get my orders sent to me and I've already done two years on Active Duty. Granted, it was stateside, but as an MP, I'm just waiting to backfill another unit or something else. The climate right now is that EVERYONE knows their chances of going, no matter their status, are pretty high.

What it hinges on is if these people were told not "if" or "when" but "or else"

That is what crosses the line. Maybe it would happen or not, but IF they were told to reup or else, then it's blackmail.

 

[Luck JF]

The military has always used tactics like this.
They tell people they're just signing up for 2 years sometimes even though they're required to do 8, they tell people they can be a fighter pilot and they end up being a mechanic.
I've heard tons of stories about it over the years. THis is something ingrained into the military and has nothing to do with the White House administration.

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Siwy

It seems that soldiers feel like they are being blackmailed, strong-armed or whatever you want to call it.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, forces any civilian in this country to enlist in the Armed Forces. Once a person enlists, however, a service-related obligation then becomes mandatory.

"They're screwing with a lot of soldiers' lives right now. They said that if we didn't re-enlist, we would be sent to the 3rd ACR (Armored Cavalry Regiment), which is leaving for Iraq, or 'We will send you to another unit that's going to Iraq."'

Anectdotal. He said/she said.

A 24-year-old sergeant said he had already signed a paper saying he would not re-enlist or extend his service. "They said, 'You're already going to Iraq,' and they ripped up my paper," said the soldier, who also requested that his name not be used.

The soldier either signed a "Dec" (Declination of Continued Service) statement or a Bar to Reenlistment. What I'd like to know is the ETS date of both soldiers.

Source: GIs decry recruiting tactics

What I do not understand is that with such a strong at-home support for war, the army has so much trouble recruiting soldiers to go fight for Iraqi freedom. Could it be that all the supporters are simply a bunch of lily-livered weenies, or maybe the support for war is exaggerated?

USAREC is currently meeting recruiting and retention goals, the last I heard.

It is easy to set a goal that is not hard to achieve in the first place ~ although, that does not mean it reflects the reality of how many troops are truly needed.

If USAREC is meeting recruiting and retention goals, how come there is a talk of draft?
How about the fact that US Army "recently placed 300 new recruiters in the field"?
How come the army is "borrowing from next year's quotas in order to meet this year's numbers"?
How come "armed forces are now in the process of calling up members of the Individual Ready Reserves" who are older reservists usually waiting retirement?
How come US Army is "moving troops away from the Demilitarized Zone in Korea and reducing the number of troops on the Korean Peninsula at a time when North Korea poses more of a danger to the U.S. - not less."?

The fact is that the US Army is currently understaffed, and for some reason millions of Americans that support the war are not volunteering.

Source

 

[burnedout]

In related news, 400 troops reenlist at Fort Carson

Excerpt:

"Some Fort Carson soldiers complained recently they had been threatened with deployment to Iraq if they didn't re-enlist. All the soldiers interviewed Wednesday said it was their choice, and some had been paid $10,000 or $15,000 bonuses."

Originally posted by: Siwy

It is easy to set a goal that is not hard to achieve in the first place ~ although, that does not mean it reflects the reality of how many troops are truly needed.

If USAREC is meeting recruiting and retention goals, how come there is a talk of draft? Where is most of the draft talk originating?

How about the fact that US Army "recently placed 300 new recruiters in the field"? How about the fact that the Army pulled more than that from the field during the beginning of the drawdown? Historically speaking, the Army has been the least attractive of the services for volunteers. USMC offers a legendary, elite lifestyle while USN and USAF offer high tech training.

How come the army is "borrowing from next year's quotas in order to meet this year's numbers"? The same method of accounting was used by USAREC in the late 80s

How come "armed forces are now in the process of calling up members of the Individual Ready Reserves" who are older reservists usually waiting retirement? Many of the older professionals are volunteers. Some have service-related commitments. I'm still in the reserves - Retired Reserve - even after serving 20 years active duty.

How come US Army is "moving troops away from the Demilitarized Zone in Korea and reducing the number of troops on the Korean Peninsula at a time when North Korea poses more of a danger to the U.S. - not less."? Ever been to the DMZ and discussed "life expectancy" if the balloon goes up? Additionally, a drawdown for Korea has been planned for some time.

The fact is that the US Army is currently understaffed, and for some reason millions of Americans that support the war are not volunteering. Oh, really? Please see a related thread coming up in a few days.

Source

 

[piasabird]

This is old news.

 

[judasmachine]

The odds just went up. It's now ALOT less likely your brother, sisters, cousin, father, etc is coming home.

 

[wchou]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Siwy
Re-enlist for 3 years or be send to Iraq (after serving there for over a year)? Which one would you chose?

Soldiers say they are being threatened with Iraq duty

Sounds like preferential treatment to the most loyal of Americans.
I?m for it.

Wow, there's a shock. :roll:

about as shocking that you libies against rewarding those who are willing to sacrifice more of there lives for this country.

How is that rewarding the soldiers? C'mon, tell me.

They know that if they come back, they won't have a normal life because of all the disturbing things they see in iraq and not to mention a whole life of welfare when they get back, don't need to work just eat and sleep 24hrs a day.
It's a cruel world, got to do what they gotta do to keep them at bay or use them till they drop dead.

 

[KidViciou$]

didn't the majority of troops vote for the bush administration? if that's true, they deserve the fruits of their vote, those that voted for bush that is

 

[her209]

What is wrong with just sending them to Iraq for whatever time remaining they have and letting them decide if they want to re-enlist or not?

 

[Zebo]

This is why I suggest anyone thinking of service to go in the airforce. That's what the smarter of the recruits go who need a way out/college/whatever. Same pay, better working conditions, smarter CO's, better jobs and most importantly "in the rear with the gear. " Those phat infantry signing bonuses may seem attractive, but what good is it if you can't use it cause you dead? Or come back with no legs or no arms or an eye missing? Or just crazy with post tramatic stress like so many have become? And for what? You think those crazy iraqis will stop killing each other if we leave? Can you say PURGE and CIVIL WAR!!

No airmen on the list of 1200 dead sticked at the top.

Dying and killings cool and all for the right reasons, life self defence, but these boys are just tools working for an administration corrupt to the core.