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American Tourist GangRaped in India

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dank69 said:
So when you asked about blaming culture for problems like this, you meant human culture and not Indian culture? Then why do you go on to deride Indian culture in the next two posts?
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Obviously because this is a thread about an indian woman who was gang raped and actually got reported in their media.


Wait, she was american, I guess that's why.
 
momeNt said:
I think it's not a cultural problem, but a moral problem with our righteousness to think we should prohibit free/voluntary exchange.

The sex trade has been driven underground (perhaps hopelessly underground) by vilifying the act of voluntarily selling sex in a white market context. These 3 men in a different, more free world could have simply just visited the local brothel and paid a women seeking to beat out her competitors a fair price for the opportunity to triple team her. Instead through periods of inability to get sexual release, they are driven to criminality and taking this poor American woman against her will.

While some rapists are not looking for sex, but looking to dominate a woman against her will, it's possible that these 3 men simply wanted sex, and took advantage of her for what they could take sexually, with no deeper seeded hatred of women that a system of free exchange could not have solved prophylactically.
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While I agree with you on some levels, the US illegal "sex market" is full of underage and heavily manipulated women... Very different from a brothel with woman who willingly work there and can act out a roleplay scenario.

Perhaps a topic for a different thread, but I think it's a poor excuse for what happened here.
 
incredible_india_by_cyogesh56-d5aa88g.jpg
 
Yeah, if I was a woman I wouldn't accept a ride from 3 strange guys, alone, at 1 am, here in the US. Pretty sure this got drilled into me and my peers as a kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O23UVhDc1vU

No picture, but I'm picturing some spoiled woman with hipster leanings who went to India because of how "awesome" their people and culture are (read: it's new to me and fascinating so it must be better than what I have!), and refused to acknowledge that India has its many dark sides, like the rest of the world.

That could be completely wrong, but I know a depressing amount of people with that background and mentality, mostly women.
 
SpatiallyAware said:
It's actually very rare for rapes to be officially reported or discussed. It's a cultural thing... If a woman got raped she must've done something wrong.

It's part of an overlying issue where indian men are blamed for absolutely nothing. Cheating? It's the wife's fault. In debt? The wife's fault.
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So India is like a Bizarro-US. Where if a woman makes a choice to have a child it is the man's fault if she cannot feed it?
 
SpatiallyAware said:
Obviously because this is a thread about an indian woman who was gang raped and actually got reported in their media.


Wait, she was american, I guess that's why.
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I'm sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to explain this before my head explodes. What exactly does the nationality of the victim have to do with the price of tea in China?
 
jpeyton said:
I'm not sure what you mean? People get raped all over the world, including in the United States.

Just because the media sensationalizes a tourist getting raped in India doesn't mean India has a rape problem. In fact, the chances of a woman travelling to India and getting raped is extremely low. A handful of rapes doesn't affect the baseline measurement when we're talking about millions of tourists in a country of 1+ billion people.

Get over it already.
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In a large number of cases in which a woman is raped there is also a man who is assaulted and/or a robbery that occurs. This suggests at most a more general problem with crime. There are just interest groups that want to pretend their is a rape problem to advance their feminist agenda.

jpeyton said:
Of course it's not the tourist's fault she got raped, but she could have reduced her chances to almost nil if she didn't accept a ride from 3 strangers at 1AM in a foreign city. Hell, I'm a guy and I wouldn't do that in my own city.
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The woman does bare responsibility for what happened to her.

If you get in a truck with 3 strange guys, who offer you a ride, late at night what do you think will happen to you? Best case scenario you get robbed. Worst case you wake up sans a few bodily organs.

She basically fell for the creepy guy with a mustache offering a kid some candy to get in his van gambit. Except she is suppose to be a grown woman.
 
irishScott said:
Yeah, if I was a woman I wouldn't accept a ride from 3 strange guys, alone, at 1 am, here in the US. Pretty sure this got drilled into me and my peers as a kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O23UVhDc1vU

No picture, but I'm picturing some spoiled woman with hipster leanings who went to India because of how "awesome" their people and culture are (read: it's new to me and fascinating so it must be better than what I have!), and refused to acknowledge that India has its many dark sides, like the rest of the world.

That could be completely wrong, but I know a depressing amount of people with that background and mentality, mostly women.
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I find your insights into the female psyche fascinating. Do you perhaps have a newsletter to which I may subscribe?
 
dank69 said:
I'm sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to explain this before my head explodes. What exactly does the nationality of the victim have to do with the price of tea in China?
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Because we would have never heard about this except for the fact that she was American.. I know it's difficult but please try to keep up.
 
Why would she get into a van with strangers at 1 AM in the morning? People must be more street smart and realize that is very dangerous and stupid.

I was actually thinking about going to India but not anymore after this. This isn't the way they should treat Americans.
 
dank69 said:
I find your insights into the female psyche fascinating. Do you perhaps have a newsletter to which I may subscribe?
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Less insight into the female psyche and more insight into the dumb hipster psyche.

And yes I actually do know plenty of people with that mentality, and they're mostly late teens or early-mid twenties women with upper middle-class+ parents who have never wanted for much (which, come to think of it, was my primary peer group for the first 18 years of my life). So sue me.
 
SpatiallyAware said:
Because we would have never heard about this except for the fact that she was American.. I know it's difficult but please try to keep up.
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I am sorry. Yes it is difficult to follow you when you only answer one out of two questions asked in a post. It is probably due to your superior intelligence and my lack of psychic abilty. I have a lead on a good newsletter though so I will hopefully improve in short order. In the meantime, please bear with me as I clarify:

American woman gang-raped in India.
You blame human culture, not Indian culture.
You then deride Indian culture anyway, even though you acknowledge that it is a problem in all cultures.
When asked why you are deriding Indian culture despite admitting that these things happen everywhere, your reply is that the victim is American.
When asked what the nationality of the victim has to do with the discussion, your reply is that we would not have heard about this incident otherwise. (This is where I was confused because I thought we were discussing why you were deriding Indian culture but apparently we were discussing why we heard about this incident.)

Do I have this correct in your opinion? If so, are you equally upset when rapes that happen in America are not reported on in Indian media?
 
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momeNt said:
I think it's not a cultural problem, but a moral problem with our righteousness to think we should prohibit free/voluntary exchange.

The sex trade has been driven underground (perhaps hopelessly underground) by vilifying the act of voluntarily selling sex in a white market context. These 3 men in a different, more free world could have simply just visited the local brothel and paid a women seeking to beat out her competitors a fair price for the opportunity to triple team her. Instead through periods of inability to get sexual release, they are driven to criminality and taking this poor American woman against her will.

While some rapists are not looking for sex, but looking to dominate a woman against her will, it's possible that these 3 men simply wanted sex, and took advantage of her for what they could take sexually, with no deeper seeded hatred of women that a system of free exchange could not have solved prophylactically.
Click to expand...

I disagree and agree..

Rape is not about sex..its about hurting someone, its about causing pain and humiliation to someone, exerting power over that person.

So I don't think it would matter if prostitution or the sex trade were made legal, you will still see this shit happen.

Men who do this are angry, pissed off at the world or their mother, or just want to take out their aggression on anyone, and women are the weaker sex and easy to abuse, just like children.

There was a huge article about the growing problem in the UK concerning "elderly women" being raped by younger men. The pscyhologists pointed out this had nothing to do with sex, or being horny. It had everything to do with anger, and just flat out wanting to hurt someone.

On the part I agree with, is that adults who are consenting should not be shamed for wanting to engage in consentual paid sexual transaction. But we have too many in this world who are super religious and want to blame the down fall of society on the sex industry. Thereby keeping prostitution illegal.
 
Oldgamer said:
I disagree and agree..

Rape is not about sex..its about hurting someone, its about causing pain and humiliation to someone, exerting power over that person.
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So basically its no different than beating a guy up. Which would explain why in many of the "India has a rape problem" cases we see that there is a guy who is also assaulted.
 
Oldgamer said:
Why on earth did that woman get into a truck full of strangers? I am not victim blaming, but good lord, exercise some common sense ladies. In addition, with all the news reports from India and Pakistan of the numerous vicious assaults toward women, I just don't see how any tourist, American westerner would go there in their right mind.
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The perps remain just as bad whether or not she was made a big mistake, but I agree she made a big mistake in judgment by getting in that truck. It's seriously wtf from my perspective.

Of course bad judgment is not an excuse to inflict harm on someone. It's clear the men were deceitful, to what point we don't know. Some of the worst guys can be the most hard to accurately guage.
 
SpatiallyAware said:
These issues have gone on for a LONG time, and indian culture says you should simply look the other way. It's a really very sad situation.
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An incidence of gang rape in India became national news, sparked rallies around the country, and a nationwide movement to shine a light on rape violence. It would seem to me that a culture that just "looks the other way" would never have had the incident even come to light let alone spark such a massive nationwide reaction.

India has a ways to go on women's issues (eve-teasing, child gender preference, etc.), but to say that the culture is more predisposed to "look the other way" than others is just singling them out. This kind of thing happens everywhere, including at an alarming rate here in the US. Doesn't mean we have a culture that condones it.
 
Oldgamer said:
I disagree and agree..

Rape is not about sex..its about hurting someone, its about causing pain and humiliation to someone, exerting power over that person.

So I don't think it would matter if prostitution or the sex trade were made legal, you will still see this shit happen.

Men who do this are angry, pissed off at the world or their mother, or just want to take out their aggression on anyone, and women are the weaker sex and easy to abuse, just like children.

There was a huge article about the growing problem in the UK concerning "elderly women" being raped by younger men. The pscyhologists pointed out this had nothing to do with sex, or being horny. It had everything to do with anger, and just flat out wanting to hurt someone.

On the part I agree with, is that adults who are consenting should not be shamed for wanting to engage in consentual paid sexual transaction. But we have too many in this world who are super religious and want to blame the down fall of society on the sex industry. Thereby keeping prostitution illegal.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree here on all counts, including that we should legalize prostitution. While I'm not 100% sure that plain old sexual frustration plays no role in rapes, I tend to agree that there is often quite a bit more to it and that the availability of prostitution isn't likely to mitigate it by much. I would add to this the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

27.3 rapes per 100,000 population nationwide in 2010.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nvcrime.htm

35.7 rapes per 100,000 in the State of Nevada where prostitution is legal.

While this does not conclusively prove that legal prostitution doesn't reduce rape, it certainly doesn't bode well for the hypothesis.

You can check India on that Wiki table by the way and discover that its rate of reported rapes is a tiny fraction of the US. But as someone earlier pointed out, there may well be a cultural difference in the extent to which rape is reported.
 
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Terrible. While I'm sympathetic, wish to castrate the rapists, it doesn't change the bad decision she made. Her spider sense should've been tingling like crazy.
 
Incorruptible said:
Why would she get into a van with strangers at 1 AM in the morning? People must be more street smart and realize that is very dangerous and stupid.

I was actually thinking about going to India but not anymore after this. This isn't the way they should treat Americans.
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What a strange statement. More like this isn't the way they should treat humans. Who cares if she's American or not.
 
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