American soldiers really aren't spoilt, trigger-happy yokels

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: mrbentley
Anatomy of the raid on Hussein's sons

"Meanwhile, on surrounding streets, a crowd estimated at several thousand Iraqi civilians had gathered to watch the unfolding drama and refused to disperse. "They were eating, drinking, cheering - these people are so ingrained to combat they don't have the good sense to get out of the way," says a soldier who witnessed the scene."

Who needs Jerry Bruckheimer?

 

[Lucky]

why dont you just read the link provided and tell us how your version of events (soldiers go in without warning and with guns blazing) fits what really happened.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Lucky
why dont you just read the link provided and tell us how your version of events (soldiers go in without warning and with guns blazing) fits what really happened.

In the end, it took almost all the firepower the Army could muster - TOW missiles, Kiowa helicopter rockets, and Mark-19 grenade launchers - to punch through the fortress-like inner walls of the villa and kill Uday Hussein and his brother, Qusay, according to US soldiers who took part in the fight.

I guess I was making that up

 

[Lucky]

I guess I was making that up

Elite soldiers of Task Force 20, including the Army's Delta Force operatives, swiftly moved into assault positions while infantry from the 101st Airborne division set up a cordon around the villa to stop anyone from escaping.
About 10 a.m., American forces issued a demand for surrender through a bullhorn. But that was immediately answered by a barrage of machine-gun fire from inside the house. At that point, "things just went ballistic," said one participant. "Those guys put up a massive fight."





Youre right, you were.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Going a bit off-topic here but why didn't they leave the country? They had many months to do it and yet they hid. I'm assuming that Saddam is still in Iraq. Another thing, why did they make it so obvious? They should be hanging out in small homes driving around an old VW van, not in mansions with a Mercedes parked underneath them. Pretty stupid.

I guess that goes to show you that Saddam's regime has no friends, even in Syria or Iran, which the current administration keeps accusing of helping Saddam

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Truth is they did'nt want them alive or they would have waited inside thier tanks as long as needed for them to comply with the surrender order.. Funny thing to since Uday was the head of all WMD production if I were Bush I'd like to know where they are and he could have told me... Oh well.

Sure, let's risk the lives of American troops by trying to get these scumbags to surrender. Let's make this very clear: Uday and Qusai were not worth one drop of American blood, and their deaths were a blow to the remaining regime elements and a boost to Coalition efforts.

I have also never seen any reference to Uday being the head of all WMD production since he wasn't very trusted by Saddam, more fond of women and partying than working for his father. He was in charge of the state media and national sports as well as the Fedayeen Saddam. I have also never seen anywhere that Qusai, the heir apparent to Saddam, was in charge of WMD production either. Care to cite some facts for your currently baseless assertions?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: charrison
Linkage

Whether the deaths of Uday and Qusay Hussein were self-inflicted or not, the military operation to capture them was immaculate. There were no American deaths, 10 minutes of warnings were given over loudspeakers, and it was the Iraqis who opened fire. So sensitive was the American approach, they even rang the bell of the house before entering.

The neat operation fits squarely with the tenor of the whole American campaign, contrary to the popular negative depiction of its armed forces: that they are spoilt, well-equipped, steroid-pumped, crudely patriotic yokels who are trigger-happy yet cowardly in their application of overwhelming force.

And, unlike our chaps, none of them is supposed to have the slightest clue about Northern Ireland-style "peacekeeping": never leaving their vehicles to go on foot patrols, never attempting to win hearts and minds by engaging with local communities and, of course, never removing their helmets, sunglasses and body armour to appear more human.

Agreed. The crudely patriotic yokels are all here on ATOT.

 

[CaptnKirk]

From the article:

So sensitive was the American approach, they even rang the bell of the house before entering.

What esle were they expected to be doing ? Delivering pizza ?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: Zebo
Truth is they did'nt want them alive or they would have waited inside thier tanks as long as needed for them to comply with the surrender order.. Funny thing to since Uday was the head of all WMD production if I were Bush I'd like to know where they are and he could have told me... Oh well.

Sure, let's risk the lives of American troops by trying to get these scumbags to surrender. Let's make this very clear: Uday and Qusai were not worth one drop of American blood, and their deaths were a blow to the remaining regime elements and a boost to Coalition efforts.

I have also never seen any reference to Uday being the head of all WMD production since he wasn't very trusted by Saddam, more fond of women and partying than working for his father. He was in charge of the state media and national sports as well as the Fedayeen Saddam. I have also never seen anywhere that Qusai, the heir apparent to Saddam, was in charge of WMD production either. Care to cite some facts for your currently baseless assertions?

"he wasn't very trusted by Saddam"...Yet...in charge of the "Fedayeen Saddam" uh huh... your powers of deduction are questionable here.

How exactly would waiting or gasing the place put American troops at risk? Or is that just a patented response to someone questioning heavy handed and stupid decisions made by command.. If anything they may know where Saddam is who continues to put US troops at risk and it would be benefical to etract this infromation...

As for my source: Judith Miller in the July 23 New York Times wrote: Qusay Hussein ?was also responsible for overseeing Iraq?s unconventional weapons. http://www.iht.com/articles/103839.htm

Stephen Black, a former inspector and chemical weapons expert, said that by virtue of his control of the security services, Qusay would have known, for instance, ?whether they had chemical weapons, how many they had, and where they were deployed.? ... Finally, he said, Qusay would have known not the exact hiding places but the ?broad brushes of the concealment policy and practices?whether Saddam had destroyed or hidden weapons or the capability for just-in-time production, and what the goals of this concealment were.??

.... and I meant Qusay...like it matters they were bothers, I assume close and of course close to thier father..

 

[CaptnKirk]

Had we wanted to bring them out without taking the overbearing action of 10 Anti-Tank Missles and a hell-fire,
we could have easily done one of the other options:
A) The Soviets used a narcotic gas to paralyze the terrorist faction in the Chechnian wars.
I think we could have waithed a day or two for the Ruskies to loan us a 55 gallon drum of it, if our own wasn't handy,
or -
B) Set up a Oz-Fest capable concert speaker system and continuous loop a tape of
Don McCleans "American Pie" until they surrendered and came out in tears,
or took the easy way out with ther own hands.

Eitherway - if it dosen't work out and they had died, in the big picture - it dosen't really matter now, does it ?

 

[burnedout]

Truth is they did'nt want them alive or they would have waited inside thier tanks as long as needed for them to comply with the surrender order.

If I'm not mistaken, a light element composed primarily of TOW, M2 .50 cal MG and Mk-19s mounted on HMMWVs conducted the operation. If they were firing TOW missiles then they would have almost certainly fired available 25mm or 120mm HE.

Once an attacking element begins engaging a house, albeit a fortified house, with TOW and Hellfire missiles, then capture of the occupants becomes secondary.

One headline indicated that friendly troops involved in the operation had no idea the brothers were in the house. But I wonder if any officers in the immediate AO were aware?

Interesting.

 

[tcsenter]

The neat operation fits squarely with the tenor of the whole American campaign, contrary to the popular negative depiction of its armed forces: that they are spoilt, well-equipped, steroid-pumped, crudely patriotic yokels who are trigger-happy yet cowardly in their application of overwhelming force.

It doesn't matter how we conduct ourselves, cuz whatever Al-Jazeera or their Mullahs or their Clerics tell them is the absolute truth and any contradictory information is just propaganda by the Infidels, who want to corrupt Islamic societies with sex and bikinis and MTV.

 

[cpumaster]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Truth is they did'nt want them alive or they would have waited inside thier tanks as long as needed for them to comply with the surrender order.

If I'm not mistaken, a light element composed primarily of TOW, M2 .50 cal MG and Mk-19s mounted on HMMWVs conducted the operation. If they were firing TOW missiles then they would have almost certainly fired available 25mm or 120mm HE.

Once an attacking element begins engaging a house, albeit a fortified house, with TOW and Hellfire missiles, then capture of the occupants becomes secondary.

One headline indicated that friendly troops involved in the operation had no idea the brothers were in the house. But I wonder if any officers in the immediate AO were aware?

Interesting.

maybe the officer in charge knew the fact in the middle of the 3 hr firefight and at that time it's way too dangerous to capture them alive, they might have strapped a bomb on them (maybe the thinking went), beside from what I read the soldiers are afraid of attack from local Saddam's loyalists if the situation isn't resolved quickly...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

The neat operation fits squarely with the tenor of the whole American campaign, contrary to the popular negative depiction of its armed forces: that they are spoilt, well-equipped, steroid-pumped, crudely patriotic yokels who are trigger-happy yet cowardly in their application of overwhelming force.

It doesn't matter how we conduct ourselves, cuz whatever Al-Jazeera or their Mullahs or their Clerics tell them is the absolute truth and any contradictory information is just propaganda by the Infidels, who want to corrupt Islamic societies with sex and bikinis and MTV.

You're looking at yourself. You even bought into the 'popular contrary negative depiction' bs.

 

[tcsenter]

You're looking at yourself. You even bought into the 'popular contrary negative depiction' bs.

"Care to explain what you're talking about, Moonbean"; something you had to long become accustomed to hearing all the time?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You're looking at yourself. You even bought into the 'popular contrary negative depiction' bs.

"Care to explain what you're talking about, Moonbean"; something you had to long become accustomed to hearing all the time?

Wasn't obvious from my earlier post?

"The neat operation fits squarely with the tenor of the whole American campaign, contrary to the popular negative depiction of its armed forces: that they are spoilt, well-equipped, steroid-pumped, crudely patriotic yokels who are trigger-happy yet cowardly in their application of overwhelming force."

I completely disagree. Our military is famously outstanding, of high moral quality and decency, fair and giving of spirit. I don't buy the notion there is a popular counter point of view. It would be an insignificant minority point of view.
------------

It doesn't matter how we conduct ourselves, cuz whatever Al-Jazeera or their Mullahs or their Clerics tell them is the absolute truth and any contradictory information is just propaganda by the Infidels, who want to corrupt Islamic societies with sex and bikinis and MTV.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how they conduct themselves, cuz whatever Al-Jazeera or their Mullahs or their Clerics tell them is absolutely false and any contradictory information is just propaganda by the Faithful, who want to corrupt Western societies with the Koran, the birka and beard.

 

[tcsenter]

I completely disagree. Our military is famously outstanding, of high moral quality and decency, fair and giving of spirit. I don't buy the notion there is a popular counter point of view. It would be an insignificant minority point of view.

Not in this country, no. In other countries, you would be mistaken.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I completely disagree. Our military is famously outstanding, of high moral quality and decency, fair and giving of spirit. I don't buy the notion there is a popular counter point of view. It would be an insignificant minority point of view.

Not in this country, no. In other countries, you would be mistaken.

How about Iraq? Not a chance. People went about their business during the war and just avoided strategic sites. It's a minority opinion everywhere. The NK are busting their asses to get us to attack. Liberia's screaming for us to come in. Haiti was real upset. Afghan women are pissed as hell, right?

 

[BOBDN]

American soldiers really aren't spoilt, trigger-happy yokels

How then do you explain the 5 deaths associated with the search Sunday for Saddam?

An old man with his family in their pickup truck entered their street to be met with a fussilade of gunfire killing three people in the truck, critically injuring two others, and killing two more innocent bystanders.

Sounds like the NYPD and Amidou Diallo. The truck, with women and children inside, was riddled with bullets. After the initial reports it seems the news media has dropped these facts from the story. More responsible journalism from our "free press."

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

American soldiers really aren't spoilt, trigger-happy yokels

How then do you explain the 5 deaths associated with the search Sunday for Saddam?

An old man with his family in their pickup truck entered their street to be met with a fussilade of gunfire killing three people in the truck, critically injuring two others, and killing two more innocent bystanders.

Sounds like the NYPD and Amidou Diallo. The truck, with women and children inside, was riddled with bullets. After the initial reports it seems the news media has dropped these facts from the story. More responsible journalism from our "free press."

I read about that.. In thier persuit of saddam they are hitting quite a few non-combatants. Poor Intel coupled with being on edge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3102823.stm

"us tactics heavy handed and hysterical"

 

[BOBDN]

Thanks for the link, Zebo.

What a disgrace. And back here there are people who are acting like they're watching some reality TV show. Getting all pumped up whenever FOX news reports another failed attempt at capturing Saddam while they ignore the unnecessary innocent civilian deaths. Just like the 6,000 who died in Bush's war.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: mrbentley
Locals deplore 'chaos'

There are complainers in every crowd.

CkG

That is the most arrogant, disgusting comment I've heard so far. Why am I not surprised.

I wonder, hypothetically, if it was American families being murdered by occupying foreign troops would you change your mind? Or would the families and neighbors who complain about their murder just be more of the "complainers in every crowd"?

 

[BOBDN]

PS

"Jonathan Foreman is film critic of The New York Post"

As anyone who has read the NY Post knows that just about says it all. All the journalistic integrity of the People's Daily.
LMFAO

 

[Nitemare]

and yet you still have retards that are saying that we murdered them or should have not killed them.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
and yet you still have retards that are saying that we murdered them or should have not killed them.

Who are the them you are referring to?