American protester shot by the IDF

[Jaskalas]

Live by the mob, die by the mob.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

lol were you born yesterday?

one less anti-semite in the world. no tear from me.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Jiggz
It's not like the American was shot with a "bullet", it was a tear gas canister which hit him in the face. Every protesters and demonstrators know this frequently happens during a demonstration/riot where tear gas is use. If you don't want tear gas or worse yet a tear gas canister in your face, then stay out of demonstrations. However, if you really like or enjoy demonstrations, then expect to be tear gassed or worse yet hit by a tear gas canister!

Well, to be factual it was not a normal tear gas canister round, it was a new "high power" version that fires at much higher velocities and thus has more range.

Here is a video of the actual incident.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db2_1237029789

The Israeli army began using to use a high velocity tear gas canister in December 2008. The black canister, labeled in Hebrew as "40mm bullet special/long range," can shoot over 400 meters. The gas canister does not make a noise when fired or emit a smoke tail. A combination of the canister?s high velocity and silence is extremely dangerous and has caused numerous injuries, including a Palestinian male whose leg was broken in January 2009.

As is shown, these new rounds can do some serious damage (eg "sustained a large hole in his forehead") and tear gas was still being fired directly at the injured man even as he is receiving medical attention. Now I consider myself "pro Israel" (not pro-FUBAR religious settlers), but there should be hell to pay for this f*** up.

As to the protest itself, I do not know what their views are aside from something related to the wall (be it get rid of it all together or it's build on pali land, I don't know).

Lets recount the definition of a f*** up: An American flies 9000 miles away to participate in a violent protest against something he has nothing to do with personally. Apparently, this is a favorite past time for the said American. American gets into rock throwing. In the heat of the event, an Israeli soldier shoots a canister which hits the said American. So that what you mean by a f*** up?

Throwing rocks? Arrest their asses.

It seems to me they do not have proper training with the new tear gas launcher, sure accidents will happen but they only started using the damn thing 3 months ago and they've smashed one guys face in and broke the leg of another. The link I posted also reports the soldiers blocked a ambulance for 5 minutes (on the assumption this was on the Israeli side of the fence) along with shooting more tear gas at the injured man and those giving him medical aid. If they couldn't tell what was going on they need better training or they will overlook someone getting beaten to death or getting ready to fire a weapon at them. My guess is they are too used to relying on the naked eye and do not use binoculars to confirm what is going on. As for the ambulance, I'll admit I don't know what went on there but they should be able to work with their own emergency responders.

So yes, I consider this a f*** up. The fact that American was a stupid f*** himself doesn't change that.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

lol were you born yesterday?

one less anti-semite in the world. no tear from me.

As usual, you've left me speechless. Maybe with a little vomit in my mouth.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

That is patently false.

Did they shoot anyone at WTO, or the LA riots? No, they did not.

However, they used tear gas, as is standard practice when confronting violent protesters. And as happened in the article in the OP. Besides your blatant flamebait, it's hardly newsworthy.

 

[nullzero]

Try to throw some rocks at policemen here and see where that will get you. You will get shot with rubber bullets and tear gas or worse. It is unfortunate that the protester got hurt but shit happens. As for the Israeli conflict there are many sides of the story and many different views only the winner will write the history books. If it is intended for the Israelis to control the land then they will win if not then the other side will lets let fate figure it out. I figure at this rate the holy land is going to be a smoldering radioactive piece of dirt in the near future anyway.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Here's the digg link Text

Obviously, as expected of that site, all the responses cry foul, blaming Israel of using American taxpayer dollars to shoot American citizens. They downplay the fact that "protest" included rock throwing at Israeli soldiers.

Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

Double standards?

No, because Israeli soldiers were on occupied land.

So should American citizens enjoy a free pass + certificate of invincibility to any conflict area in the world, according to their personal beliefs of what is right?

The funny thing is that if the same guy was shot in the occupied Russian territories in Georgia (the one in Europe), or Chechnya, or shot by the Turkish in a Kurdish warzone, you either not say anything or wonder what business did he have there :roll:

The question was whether it is a double standard when compared to a foreigner getting shot by US troops on US soil. And there isn't because in this case, Israel is the foreigner on someone else's soil.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

You're new to this, aren't you funnyman Israel fought most of its war smany years before there were settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, years before these regions were annexed during war.
Today, there are no settlements in Gaza. Yet the violence continues...

The forced removal of the settlers in Gaza, several years ago as I recall, hasn't removed years of bitterness over the willingness of various Israeli governments to allow such settlements. You say nothing of the West Bank, eh? And the wholesale poverty in the Palestinian territories, enforced by the policies of the USA and Israel are an abomination.

It's not the settlements - those are just an excuse. They want the territories Israel currently exists on, anything less would be a non-Islamic compromise.

I don't support either side in that conflict, nor do I support Hamas in the least. But, we all understand the genesis of this conflict and why it is ongoing.

At least we got that out of the way.

Because Israel fought wars doesn't mean they are entitled to property. Do you think you are Romans? Or, worse, English? Your hubris would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.

Actually, according to international law, Israel's annexation of the Golan heights, for example, was entirely legal (I'm not sure about the West Bank and Gaza so I won't make bold claims). Don't forget neither Gaza or the West Bank were "Palestinian" territories, but rather belonged to Egypt and Jordan respectively, both were very happy to have the regional sucker take that demographic timebomb off their hands.

One of these days we will have a President who will twist Israel's arm and get them to agree to International Norms of civilized behavior. For this, they call themselves religious and pious? Please....Religion is a pox on the genome.

Nah-ah, you can't throw religion into it from the Israeli side. I know, I know - for the sake of balance, lets portray both sides as religious nutcases and then shrug and say "they all suck", right? That's the common practice, at least. But then, the Israeli public is not, predominately, orthodox. The majority merely believe in god and don't actively practice judaism, let alone looking to live by it - not any more than you live by Christian values and morale. The extremists are single digit percents out of the general population.

And what are those "International Norms of civilized behavior"? Israel has 100x times more morale, ethical or practical justification to fighting its war with the Palestinian than the US has with the war in Afghanistan, let alone Iraq :roll: Is launching missile into the area of a non-fighting sovereign country (that would be Pakistan) justified?
Hey, I'm all for what the US is doing (shame about Iraq, though), just get off the morale high ground, you don't deserve it.

First of all, I'm no Christian. LOL. (If you knew my father and mother, then you might have room to speculate about my religious views.) I regard religion as a pox on humanity. If you were able to read, you'd have figured that out. But, yes, the sun seems to have baked a lot of brains in the Middle East. The fact you find it humorous that a protestor was shot, and he was an American Christian, is appalling. One doesn't need the moral high ground to reach that conclusion. Even a moral leper knows the difference between sadism and kindness, though he might appreciate it more.

The Palestinians must accept the existence of Israel. We can't turn back the clock and re-do this dumb English experiment in tragi-comedic imperialism. (If I only a had a penny for every stupid mistake the English have made I'd be a billionaire.) Anyway, neither side is budging and you now have that right wing crazy Netanyhu pretending to know what he's doing and to whom. And he's all in favor of more settlements. More concrete barriers, more restrictions on Palestinians. I'm sure he's just another non-religious Jew following good governmental practices.... This is what a people will choose- fear and loathing and mysticism-when their security is modestly threatened.

If you want to debate the international law on the Golan Heights, West Bank, and Gaza, please provide some links to your assertions.

I have little respect left for Israel or the Palestinians, and none for Iran. The debacles in Iraq and Afghanistan have wasted our country and those two countries. The mess Bush made of them is well known. Yet, Israel was an ardent supporter of Bush.... They are much less enthusiastic for Obama. Should we assume it's because Bush was so even handed in the region? Why do you assume I think we did the right thing anywhere?

No one can criticize Israel without being called an anti-Semite I see. LOL! Anyway, I disapprove of Baptist's views equally. And that's passing by all the obvious infirmities of Jesus walking on water, Moses passing down the 10 Commandments, ad nauseam. One might as well belong to The Flat Earth Society.

-Robert

 

[brownzilla786]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

lol were you born yesterday?

one less anti-semite in the world. no tear from me.

As usual, you've left me speechless. Maybe with a little vomit in my mouth.

This. Not that I expect JS80 to add any intellect to a discussion anyway, but man he has a knack for finding new lows.



As for the topic: Israel has the right to use tear gas but as some other poster pointed out using high powered tear gas and hitting someone in the face with it + not allowing the ambulance to come in for 5 minutes is just poor training and decision making. This guy, if he lives, will probably be a vegetable for the rest of his life.

 

[StageLeft]

When you throw rocks at guys with guns, always understand you're at a disadvantage.

 

[MedicBob]

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

So perhaps when the Seminole(insert Native American) tribe invades your house you should just accept it as it was their land first?

 

[halik]

He got hit in the face with a tear gas can... that's kind of the risk you take when you join a protest that's gonna get cracked down with tear gas.

Unfortunate, kind of like the girl that shot in the face with a beanbag.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: brownzilla786

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

lol were you born yesterday?

one less anti-semite in the world. no tear from me.

As usual, you've left me speechless. Maybe with a little vomit in my mouth.

This. Not that I expect JS80 to add any intellect to a discussion anyway, but man he has a knack for finding new lows.



As for the topic: Israel has the right to use tear gas but as some other poster pointed out using high powered tear gas and hitting someone in the face with it + not allowing the ambulance to come in for 5 minutes is just poor training and decision making. This guy, if he lives, will probably be a vegetable for the rest of his life.

I can guarantee you that they can't aim those things to hit people in the face. Just like a grenade launcher, you're lucky if you nail the distance correctly, much less to hit a foot by foot object.

 

[brownzilla786]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: brownzilla786

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

lol were you born yesterday?

one less anti-semite in the world. no tear from me.

As usual, you've left me speechless. Maybe with a little vomit in my mouth.

This. Not that I expect JS80 to add any intellect to a discussion anyway, but man he has a knack for finding new lows.



As for the topic: Israel has the right to use tear gas but as some other poster pointed out using high powered tear gas and hitting someone in the face with it + not allowing the ambulance to come in for 5 minutes is just poor training and decision making. This guy, if he lives, will probably be a vegetable for the rest of his life.

I can guarantee you that they can't aim those things to hit people in the face. Just like a grenade launcher, you're lucky if you nail the distance correctly, much less to hit a foot by foot object.

Thats fine, but in that case their probably was not a need for a launcher. If the protesters were throwing rocks, that means they were close to the IDF. The IDF could have just as easily thrown tear gas canisters

 

[EagleKeeper]

You come equipped with the tear gass launcher incase it is needed.

It is easier to use it, then attempt to "rearm" and throw a tear gass grenade.

Also in the proces of securing your weapon, you are completely defenseless.

 

[jonks]

Maybe some Israelis should go into a palestinian camp to protest and demonstrate against suicide bombing, and then try throwing rocks at some of the palestinian police and see if they are simply scolded for their impertinence.