American protester shot by the IDF

[SamurAchzar]

Here's the digg link Text

Obviously, as expected of that site, all the responses cry foul, blaming Israel of using American taxpayer dollars to shoot American citizens. They downplay the fact that "protest" included rock throwing at Israeli soldiers.

Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

Double standards?

 

[MovingTarget]

He who knows what the hell he is doing, doesn't cast stones. Not a good idea with the IDF around. There is a huge difference between staging/joining a peaceful protest and throwing rocks. That imho does not fall under civil disobedience, but violence. Sucks that the guy got a tear gas cannister in the face, but that is the risk you take when you are in a rock-throwing mob.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's showing civilized restraint by the IDF to use non-lethal weapons in response.

If you don't want to be gassed, don't join a mob.

 

[Jiggz]

It's not like the American was shot with a "bullet", it was a tear gas canister which hit him in the face. Every protesters and demonstrators know this frequently happens during a demonstration/riot where tear gas is use. If you don't want tear gas or worse yet a tear gas canister in your face, then stay out of demonstrations. However, if you really like or enjoy demonstrations, then expect to be tear gassed or worse yet hit by a tear gas canister!

 

[bbdub333]

what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

You a fucking idiot?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

You a fucking idiot?

What part of the truth hurts your feeling there? Maybe we can devise a different story just for you.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

WTF? Troll much?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

WTF? Troll much?

WTF do you expect? He's Israel's lapdog.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: bbdub333

what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

You a fucking idiot?

What part of the truth hurts your feeling there? Maybe we can devise a different story just for you.

Tasers, rubber bullets, pepper spray, fire hose, dogs, goold ol' fashioned police batons, etc. etc. etc. You are blind if you think the USA doesn't extensively use non-lethal (well....less than lethal) means to control violent mobs.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Here's the digg link Text

Obviously, as expected of that site, all the responses cry foul, blaming Israel of using American taxpayer dollars to shoot American citizens. They downplay the fact that "protest" included rock throwing at Israeli soldiers.

Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

Double standards?

No, because Israeli soldiers were on occupied land.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: bbdub333

what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

You a fucking idiot?

What part of the truth hurts your feeling there? Maybe we can devise a different story just for you.

Tasers, rubber bullets, pepper spray, fire hose, dogs, goold ol' fashioned police batons, etc. etc. etc. You are blind if you think the USA doesn't extensively use non-lethal (well....less than lethal) means to control violent mobs.

Against a rock-throwing mob, really? Maybe you assume the evil Israeli soldiers are impervious to flying boulders.

Anyway, you just prove the point - he was hit by a gas canister, not live ammunition. Whether he was hit on purpose or not no one would know.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Here's the digg link Text

Obviously, as expected of that site, all the responses cry foul, blaming Israel of using American taxpayer dollars to shoot American citizens. They downplay the fact that "protest" included rock throwing at Israeli soldiers.

Pause for a moment and think what would be the treatment of an Israeli throwing rocks for a cause on US soil. He'd be shot on the spot, and NOT with tear gas.

Double standards?

No, because Israeli soldiers were on occupied land.

So should American citizens enjoy a free pass + certificate of invincibility to any conflict area in the world, according to their personal beliefs of what is right?

The funny thing is that if the same guy was shot in the occupied Russian territories in Georgia (the one in Europe), or Chechnya, or shot by the Turkish in a Kurdish warzone, you either not say anything or wonder what business did he have there :roll:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Anyway, you just prove the point - he was hit by a gas canister, not live ammunition. Whether he was hit on purpose or not no one would know.

The video apparently showing them continue to shoot gas canisters at the people trying to provide him first aid as he lay there unconscious doesn't look too good for them.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Anyway, you just prove the point - he was hit by a gas canister, not live ammunition. Whether he was hit on purpose or not no one would know.

The video apparently showing them continue to shoot gas canisters at the people trying to provide him first aid as he lay there unconscious doesn't look too good for them.

... so does the report about Israel not letting a Palestinian ambulance in, instead waiting for an Israel one to transfer into. When seen out of context, Israel is certainly evil, but when you learn about all the cases Palestinians used Red Cross medical vehicle to ferry suicide bombers and weapons into Israel it looks otherwise.

Anyway, I still assert he had no business there. Unless armies of professional trouble makers like that, "political mercenaries" are acceptable by your standards.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Anyway, you just prove the point - he was hit by a gas canister, not live ammunition. Whether he was hit on purpose or not no one would know.

The video apparently showing them continue to shoot gas canisters at the people trying to provide him first aid as he lay there unconscious doesn't look too good for them.

... so does the report about Israel not letting a Palestinian ambulance in, instead waiting for an Israel one to transfer into. When seen out of context, Israel is certainly evil, but when you learn about all the cases Palestinians used Red Cross medical vehicle to ferry suicide bombers and weapons into Israel it looks otherwise.

I thought it said the Palestinian ambulance was allowed in after the ambulance argued with them for 5 minutes. But what was the security concern, this wasn't in Israel.

Anyway, I still assert he had no business there. Unless armies of professional trouble makers like that, "political mercenaries" are acceptable by your standards.

That's a question for immigration, for arresting him - not for the issue of violence against the protestors.

One funny thing I note, is how not one post has made mention of the issue the protest was about, the barrier put up by Israel that has these people so upset.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Anyway, you just prove the point - he was hit by a gas canister, not live ammunition. Whether he was hit on purpose or not no one would know.

The video apparently showing them continue to shoot gas canisters at the people trying to provide him first aid as he lay there unconscious doesn't look too good for them.

... so does the report about Israel not letting a Palestinian ambulance in, instead waiting for an Israel one to transfer into. When seen out of context, Israel is certainly evil, but when you learn about all the cases Palestinians used Red Cross medical vehicle to ferry suicide bombers and weapons into Israel it looks otherwise.

I thought it said the Palestinian ambulance was allowed in after the ambulance argued with them for 5 minutes. But what was the security concern, this wasn't in Israel.

Anyway, I still assert he had no business there. Unless armies of professional trouble makers like that, "political mercenaries" are acceptable by your standards.

That's a question for immigration, for arresting him - not for the issue of violence against the protestors.

So how do you suggest violent protests should be handled?

One funny thing I note, is how not one post has made mention of the issue the protest was about, the barrier put up by Israel that has these people so upset.

Lacking any chance to reaching real peace with the Palestinians, that barrier was the only way to stop suicide bombers going off in Israel cities, and it worked wonders. Rest assured the nearly complete absence of suicide bombers from the headlines in recent years has nothing to do with Hamas' good will.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Whatever did or did not happen, he wasn't personally targeted. It's not possible to aim that accurately.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Craig234
One funny thing I note, is how not one post has made mention of the issue the protest was about, the barrier put up by Israel that has these people so upset.

Lacking any chance to reaching real peace with the Palestinians, that barrier was the only way to stop suicide bombers going off in Israel cities, and it worked wonders. Rest assured the nearly complete absence of suicide bombers from the headlines in recent years has nothing to do with Hamas' good will.

I'm no expert on the barrier, but for the sake of argument, if some barrier is needed, that doesn't preclude the possibility of the barrier they put up being wrong in some way.

The story refers to their complain being that the barrier brevents them from an olive grove they need to get to. Perhaps the barrier should have been put up in a better spot?

It's pretty common knowledge that behind the rhetoric for needing a barrier, it appears they took advantage of that to do a big land grab putting it well within Palestinian lands.

 

[chess9]

Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

 

[fallout man]

Silly goyim.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

You're new to this, aren't you funnyman Israel fought most of its war smany years before there were settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, years before these regions were annexed during war.
Today, there are no settlements in Gaza. Yet the violence continues...

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

You're new to this, aren't you funnyman Israel fought most of its war smany years before there were settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, years before these regions were annexed during war.
Today, there are no settlements in Gaza. Yet the violence continues...

The forced removal of the settlers in Gaza, several years ago as I recall, hasn't removed years of bitterness over the willingness of various Israeli governments to allow such settlements. You say nothing of the West Bank, eh? And the wholesale poverty in the Palestinian territories, enforced by the policies of the USA and Israel are an abomination.

I don't support either side in that conflict, nor do I support Hamas in the least. But, we all understand the genesis of this conflict and why it is ongoing.

Because Israel fought wars doesn't mean they are entitled to property. Do you think you are Romans? Or, worse, English? Your hubris would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.

One of these days we will have a President who will twist Israel's arm and get them to agree to International Norms of civilized behavior. For this, they call themselves religious and pious? Please....Religion is a pox on the genome.

-Robert

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: Jiggz
It's not like the American was shot with a "bullet", it was a tear gas canister which hit him in the face. Every protesters and demonstrators know this frequently happens during a demonstration/riot where tear gas is use. If you don't want tear gas or worse yet a tear gas canister in your face, then stay out of demonstrations. However, if you really like or enjoy demonstrations, then expect to be tear gassed or worse yet hit by a tear gas canister!

Well, to be factual it was not a normal tear gas canister round, it was a new "high power" version that fires at much higher velocities and thus has more range.

Here is a video of the actual incident.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db2_1237029789

The Israeli army began using to use a high velocity tear gas canister in December 2008. The black canister, labeled in Hebrew as "40mm bullet special/long range," can shoot over 400 meters. The gas canister does not make a noise when fired or emit a smoke tail. A combination of the canister?s high velocity and silence is extremely dangerous and has caused numerous injuries, including a Palestinian male whose leg was broken in January 2009.

As is shown, these new rounds can do some serious damage (eg "sustained a large hole in his forehead") and tear gas was still being fired directly at the injured man even as he is receiving medical attention. Now I consider myself "pro Israel" (not pro-FUBAR religious settlers), but there should be hell to pay for this f*** up.

As to the protest itself, I do not know what their views are aside from something related to the wall (be it get rid of it all together or it's build on pali land, I don't know).

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: chess9
Perhaps the Israelies might think about stopping settlements in the West Bank and Gaza? Maybe even giving back to the Palestinians land that was stolen from them? Then there might not be a need for IDF? When the Israelies start taking Kansas, then Americans will finally awaken to the Modern Manifest Destiny that is at the heart of much of the Israeli thievery.

-Robert

You're new to this, aren't you funnyman Israel fought most of its war smany years before there were settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, years before these regions were annexed during war.
Today, there are no settlements in Gaza. Yet the violence continues...

The forced removal of the settlers in Gaza, several years ago as I recall, hasn't removed years of bitterness over the willingness of various Israeli governments to allow such settlements. You say nothing of the West Bank, eh? And the wholesale poverty in the Palestinian territories, enforced by the policies of the USA and Israel are an abomination.

It's not the settlements - those are just an excuse. They want the territories Israel currently exists on, anything less would be a non-Islamic compromise.

I don't support either side in that conflict, nor do I support Hamas in the least. But, we all understand the genesis of this conflict and why it is ongoing.

At least we got that out of the way.

Because Israel fought wars doesn't mean they are entitled to property. Do you think you are Romans? Or, worse, English? Your hubris would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.

Actually, according to international law, Israel's annexation of the Golan heights, for example, was entirely legal (I'm not sure about the West Bank and Gaza so I won't make bold claims). Don't forget neither Gaza or the West Bank were "Palestinian" territories, but rather belonged to Egypt and Jordan respectively, both were very happy to have the regional sucker take that demographic timebomb off their hands.

One of these days we will have a President who will twist Israel's arm and get them to agree to International Norms of civilized behavior. For this, they call themselves religious and pious? Please....Religion is a pox on the genome.

Nah-ah, you can't throw religion into it from the Israeli side. I know, I know - for the sake of balance, lets portray both sides as religious nutcases and then shrug and say "they all suck", right? That's the common practice, at least. But then, the Israeli public is not, predominately, orthodox. The majority merely believe in god and don't actively practice judaism, let alone looking to live by it - not any more than you live by Christian values and morale. The extremists are single digit percents out of the general population.

And what are those "International Norms of civilized behavior"? Israel has 100x times more morale, ethical or practical justification to fighting its war with the Palestinian than the US has with the war in Afghanistan, let alone Iraq :roll: Is launching missile into the area of a non-fighting sovereign country (that would be Pakistan) justified?
Hey, I'm all for what the US is doing (shame about Iraq, though), just get off the morale high ground, you don't deserve it.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Jiggz
It's not like the American was shot with a "bullet", it was a tear gas canister which hit him in the face. Every protesters and demonstrators know this frequently happens during a demonstration/riot where tear gas is use. If you don't want tear gas or worse yet a tear gas canister in your face, then stay out of demonstrations. However, if you really like or enjoy demonstrations, then expect to be tear gassed or worse yet hit by a tear gas canister!

Well, to be factual it was not a normal tear gas canister round, it was a new "high power" version that fires at much higher velocities and thus has more range.

Here is a video of the actual incident.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db2_1237029789

The Israeli army began using to use a high velocity tear gas canister in December 2008. The black canister, labeled in Hebrew as "40mm bullet special/long range," can shoot over 400 meters. The gas canister does not make a noise when fired or emit a smoke tail. A combination of the canister?s high velocity and silence is extremely dangerous and has caused numerous injuries, including a Palestinian male whose leg was broken in January 2009.

As is shown, these new rounds can do some serious damage (eg "sustained a large hole in his forehead") and tear gas was still being fired directly at the injured man even as he is receiving medical attention. Now I consider myself "pro Israel" (not pro-FUBAR religious settlers), but there should be hell to pay for this f*** up.

As to the protest itself, I do not know what their views are aside from something related to the wall (be it get rid of it all together or it's build on pali land, I don't know).

Lets recount the definition of a f*** up: An American flies 9000 miles away to participate in a violent protest against something he has nothing to do with personally. Apparently, this is a favorite past time for the said American. American gets into rock throwing. In the heat of the event, an Israeli soldier shoots a canister which hits the said American. So that what you mean by a f*** up?