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American home values dropped $1,700,000,000,000 last year

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Dude, you fail at macroeconomics. There are two reasons alone for why the housing bubble occurred. The central banks of the world lowered interest rates and printed money which caused house prices to inflate. Secondly, bankers invented a mathematical function that they thought allowed them to tame risk but of course, doing so caused the systemic risk which eventually brought the system down. Sheeple don't really have anything to do with it.

You forget
Investment banks - securities fraud
Mortgage lenders – widespread fraud
Rating agencies – junk science
CDO “managers” – crash test dummies & accomplices
Certain hedge funds – shorted CDOs they “managed”
Bond insurers – money for nothing
Regulators – poseurs and enablers

http://www.scribd.com/doc/44915502/FHFA1282010
 
The middle class has only their selves to blame for the most part, if people weren't soo greedy during the housing bubble raping each other on home values, selling a humble 3 bedroom 2 bath house with a 2 car garage on a quarter acre that should only be worth $120k max for outrageous prices like $300k $400k etc... then the bubble would've never happened. But nope, people had to be greedy and now they're reaping what they sowed, same thing with the stock market... you'll never win a game trying to be rich when you have no real wealth.

I'm sorry to be this blunt especially to someone with just 50 posts, but your post is remarkably ignorant, and frustrating.

This has zero - zero - to do with 'greedy middle class people overpricing their homes'.

There's a process for how home selling works - there's a market. When you go to sell your house, a realtor informs you of a range the market will bear - say $400,000.

At that point, the seller selects a price around that range, and the market process has buyer make offers, and they negotiate a price.

If the seller wants $600,000, he gets no buyer. If he sells it for the price you think he should, $120,000, he gets a ton of buyers, and the value of the house remains $400,000; he just loses our on nearly $300,000 that some buyer gets instead of him, a real bargain. No one does that nor should they.

The seller doesn't determine the market pricing. The middle class doesn't. What DOES affects it are bigger economic issue - in partt, what can they afford?

People aren't going to limit their house budget to 5% of their budget; they'd rather live in a nicer place, and they budget more for it (in the middle class).

They aren't going to spend 90% of their budget; they have to eat and pay utilities.

They'll spend in a certain range of income typically, that varies somewhat by supply and demand (they'll spend more if they need to to get a place they want).

So what makes the price of the house go from $120,000 to $400,000? It's not 'greed of the seller' as you say.

It's a lot of other things, from how much money buyers have, to the interest rates.

Housing is the unique asset at being able to destroy the middle class's wealth.

For one, it's the asset that has the most of their money - a pretty important issue.

For another, let's say we're talking the stock market; how do you get their money if it's there? They have stocks, they hold stocks, you don't get your hands on it.

What about getting people to buy stocks and then the stocks losing their value? Well, the stock market is overwhelmingly owned by rich people; the middle class has a sliver.

The destruction of stock prices would hurt the rich far, far more than the middle class.

But not homes. The rich have a far smaller share of their wealth in their home than the middle class (and even then, the market is someone separated between middle class homes and the homes of the rich. You can have middle class homes plummet while high-end homes increase in price, as we have seen in some markets).

Your post is just ill-informed, based on some emotional myth possibly fed to you by propagandists. It's just wrong.

There are a lot of people to blame, and a lot of policies to blame, and they don't include 'greedy sellers' as more than a tiny bit of the cause.

Sure, overzealous investors - they might be greedy, too - can put money into the market that inflates prices a bit, but it's a small bit of the pricing.

Ultimately those people have to sell at market prices.

Posts like your are demanding to let the guilty go unpunished, and bad policies be continued.
 
Can someone explain to me again why we shouldn't walk away from our homes and let for banks foreclose on them? At the rate home values are dropping, all of the folks who bought at the top of the market in 2007 will likely be underwater on their overpriced mortgages for the next decade.

Hell... my place is depreciating at twice the rate that I'm paying it off!

Same here. Bought in May 2006, it has gone down 65% but yet property tax has doubled.
 
Well, yeh, of course. It was the greatest looting spree in the history of finance, a function of "cutting red tape", "self regulated banking", "easing of reserve requirements" all brought to us courtesy of the implementation of Republican ideology by a Republican congress and the Bush presidency, with lead in from RR and the Republican congresses of the Clinton years.

It's no accident that the income share of the top .1% peaked in 2007 at almost 12%, even as the rest of America started to get the feeling that maybe, just maybe, they'd been screwed.

That's all forgotten now, of course, with the electorate giving the perps a big boost in the midterms.

It's like battered wife syndrome...

The Dems had complete control for 2 years, exactly how many banksters did the indict?
 
Dude, you fail at macroeconomics. There are two reasons alone for why the housing bubble occurred. The central banks of the world lowered interest rates and printed money which caused house prices to inflate. Secondly, bankers invented a mathematical function that they thought allowed them to tame risk but of course, doing so caused the systemic risk which eventually brought the system down. Sheeple don't really have anything to do with it.

You forgot massive fraud committed by the banksters.
 
No, no, Craig isn't too far off from the truth here. And to answer your question, yes, to a certain extent. Those not buying nor selling, just living, were in this game and not by choice. Now what Craig didn't say is what caused the bubble, what caused the housing prices to jump up so high to begin with. Way too much credit flooding the system, and some paddles which directed a lot of that credit into housing, all of it mostly his beloved government's fault. It was the government's goal to increase home ownership. They achieved it. Oops.

Lol, you're such a tool. Government had little to nothing to do with it. You honestly believe the banks and wall street wouldn't have created all these crap mortgages without government when they could transfer the risk so easily? Give me a break.
 
Lol, you're such a tool. Government had little to nothing to do with it. You honestly believe the banks and wall street wouldn't have created all these crap mortgages without government when they could transfer the risk so easily? Give me a break.

You're looking at the symptoms rather than the disease. Nevertheless, I don't see the banks as anything even resembling innocent, but I'm not so blind that I can't see the much bigger picture.
 
This is really just part of the transfer of wealth to the most rich.

A great way to extract the middle class's wealth is to get them to inflate the value of the homes where most of their money is - even borrow more and more to pay the inflated prices, all those mortgages enriching the financial industry that has already gone from 10% to 40% of the economy's profit - and then pop the bubble.

So rising home prices "forced" middle class homeowners to get in on the mania? Your post is pure nonsense. If people weren't so stupid to participate in a bubble that anyone with an I.Q. over 50 could see, they wouldn't be worried their house was worth 30-50% less now.

There will always be spivs out there trying to take your money in every avenue of life. Wake up people!!! The guy who earlier in this thread blamed our education system is probably the most right out of all of you.

Perhaps I'm just a cynical bastard who goes around life thinking everyone's out to get me (partly due to working on Wall St so long) but I have little sympathy for those who bought too much house or overpaid when they could have rented. There are many people to blame in this latest credit bubble and many of you know I blame cheap money (Greenspan primarily) as the root cause for nearly everything that came after...too low rates punished savers, caused aggressive institutional investors to "seek yield", led to financial engineering of exotic derivatives, etc etc and it all fed on itself until it blew up.

But despite all this, I expect the average citizen to use some fvcking common sense. If you suspect a 40-yr old 3 bedroom sh*t hole fixer upper selling for $700k is overpriced, you shouldn't buy it. RENT instead!
 
Gotta live somewhere. Not to mention our leaders including Benny the B were telling us nothing but UP UP UP all the while knowing shit would hit the fan. I read Karl so I knew earlier but when 99.9% of professionals are telling you to buy, normal people go along with that.

Sure you do, but nobody says you have to buy. If people had looked at how ridiculous the price of homes was getting, they could have rented and the bubble would have been minimized. But everyone wanted to get in on those skyrocketing prices and "get rich" not realizing that it was just a game of high stakes musical chairs.

Not to mention how many millions of people who never sold their homes but just used the falsely inflated value as a piggy bank to buy cars and take vacations. Just found out an old friend of mine is going through foreclosure, guess what he did? Rather than enjoy his <$100K mortgage and nice low payments, he refinanced fully when it was "worth" double that amount. And now that the construction business (he's a carpenter) is on the skids it's a double whammy. No work and mortgage payments he can't afford.
 
Dude, you fail at macroeconomics. There are two reasons alone for why the housing bubble occurred. The central banks of the world lowered interest rates and printed money which caused house prices to inflate. Secondly, bankers invented a mathematical function that they thought allowed them to tame risk but of course, doing so caused the systemic risk which eventually brought the system down. Sheeple don't really have anything to do with it.

Idiot. Those things were catalysts, but ultimately it took the middle class signing a mortgage which was unrealistic and unaffordable that made it happen.
 
Sure you do, but nobody says you have to buy. If people had looked at how ridiculous the price of homes was getting, they could have rented and the bubble would have been minimized. But everyone wanted to get in on those skyrocketing prices and "get rich" not realizing that it was just a game of high stakes musical chairs.

Not to mention how many millions of people who never sold their homes but just used the falsely inflated value as a piggy bank to buy cars and take vacations. Just found out an old friend of mine is going through foreclosure, guess what he did? Rather than enjoy his <$100K mortgage and nice low payments, he refinanced fully when it was "worth" double that amount. And now that the construction business (he's a carpenter) is on the skids it's a double whammy. No work and mortgage payments he can't afford.
Had a neighbor who had to short sell, she did the same. They purchased a few month after me, but repeatedly refinanced and pulled out money.
 
Sure you do, but nobody says you have to buy. If people had looked at how ridiculous the price of homes was getting, they could have rented and the bubble would have been minimized. But everyone wanted to get in on those skyrocketing prices and "get rich" not realizing that it was just a game of high stakes musical chairs.

Not to mention how many millions of people who never sold their homes but just used the falsely inflated value as a piggy bank to buy cars and take vacations. Just found out an old friend of mine is going through foreclosure, guess what he did? Rather than enjoy his <$100K mortgage and nice low payments, he refinanced fully when it was "worth" double that amount. And now that the construction business (he's a carpenter) is on the skids it's a double whammy. No work and mortgage payments he can't afford.

Agreed there were some serious dumb fucks. When will people learn debt is doing them no favors? Unless it's producing more income than to service of course.
 
Had a neighbor who had to short sell, she did the same. They purchased a few month after me, but repeatedly refinanced and pulled out money.

Everyone does I could go up and down the street and find at least half houses have huge helocs. But this gets back to the bigger problem of unsound lending bankrolled by fraud and bailouts. I expect the adults to act with more vigilance and prudence.
 
Lol, you're such a tool. Government had little to nothing to do with it. You honestly believe the banks and wall street wouldn't have created all these crap mortgages without government when they could transfer the risk so easily? Give me a break.

Phokus,

Who exactly did the banks transfer all the risk to so easily?

(Hint: the government - FANNIE and FREDDIE with Congressional oversight)

Without that ability to transfer the risk so aeasily it's doubtful the banks would engaged in this behavior.

Fern
 
So rising home prices "forced" middle class homeowners to get in on the mania? Your post is pure nonsense. If people weren't so stupid to participate in a bubble that anyone with an I.Q. over 50 could see, they wouldn't be worried their house was worth 30-50&#37; less now.

There will always be spivs out there trying to take your money in every avenue of life. Wake up people!!! The guy who earlier in this thread blamed our education system is probably the most right out of all of you.

Perhaps I'm just a cynical bastard who goes around life thinking everyone's out to get me (partly due to working on Wall St so long) but I have little sympathy for those who bought too much house or overpaid when they could have rented. There are many people to blame in this latest credit bubble and many of you know I blame cheap money (Greenspan primarily) as the root cause for nearly everything that came after...too low rates punished savers, caused aggressive institutional investors to "seek yield", led to financial engineering of exotic derivatives, etc etc and it all fed on itself until it blew up.

But despite all this, I expect the average citizen to use some fvcking common sense. If you suspect a 40-yr old 3 bedroom sh*t hole fixer upper selling for $700k is overpriced, you shouldn't buy it. RENT instead!

Dude even after the facts are out people are still clueless. You really can't expect everyone to be a financial expert. I sure as hell am not just got lucky this time. This is why there are laws against fraud, fraud by inducement, perjury and whatnot and were laws against IBs and traditionals merging to prevent wild speculation and promote sound lending. When laws are not followed people is when people get hurt. Same with any law.

Let review what really went down instead of calling everyone idiots.

1. Banks made loans they knew could not be paid back. Citibank's Chief underwriter tells us this when he testifies under oath that Citi knew "60% of loans were defective in 2006 and 80% defective in 2007." Defective means not worth a shit, junk, garbage gonna default in bankers lingo. This is fraud by inducement.
http://fcic.gov/hearings/pdfs/2010-0407-Bowen.pdf

2. But they did not care. Why? Because they could unload them by slapping AAA on them and blowing sunshine up peoples behind in the form of MBS to your pensions, 401k, pers and whatnot. When you sell garbage to someone intentionally concealing it's garbage that's fraud too.

3. Problem is people who bought all that trash and paid good money for it were not getting returns expected because they were trash. Bankers still held too many. So market started going crazy some firms fell apart and whatnot.


4. Banks threaten us with "tanks in the streets" and extort us for about 700 billion bucks.

5. They get about 700 billion dollars but they don't buy up bad paper they instead got more money to speculate with (buy DOW low, commodities or insider trading that is blowing up now).

6. Instead accounting board, FASB, is extorted by Obama to shore up the bad paper; Marking these loans which everyone garbage at whatever the banks wished, instead of at their actual value which is about 40% after lawyers, Realtor, fees, restoration to the property.

7. But all this hocus pocus does not make the problem go away, as the bad paper is still there and the losses are still real. Cash flow problems are kicking with people not paying for two years and with no intention of paying. Can't pretend forever.

8. So they start going to court either as servicer or holder to get cash. But they sure as shit can't show the original note it might be shown original W2 was altered by the banks etc etc etc. MBS's who have been trying to get original note have also been stiff armed for years now. And they will never show it if they can help it because they would be sued into the ground for #1 and #2 above. Not to mention a pattern of fraudulent conduct gets to racketeering. So they come empty handed just with their word. aka "lost note affidavit"

9. Banks start fraudulently robosigning for judges to see, sometimes dated after foreclosure date claiming they own loan or acting as servicer
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...ions-have.html
 
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Now if only my property taxes would go down. (pisses me off that some areas have a system in place that will raises rates to adjust for falling property values - not sure if my area is one of them but don't think so).

My home isn't an investment, it's a place to live. I don't care one way or another if it goes up or down.
 
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