American history of war (need some help)

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

Yup

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

Yup

It is good to have national pride.

The only time that people really get my back up is when the U.S. is described as an evil, imperialistic, greedy nation of rednecks that has never done a single positive thing for the world. However, healthy criticisim is encouraged.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

Yup

It is good to have national pride.

The only time that people really get my back up is when the U.S. is described as an evil, imperialistic, greedy nation of rednecks that has never done a single positive thing for the world. However, healthy criticisim is encouraged.

I belive the US have done a lot of positive things to the world, most than any other country.
But I also think they´ve done some very bad things to the world as well.
You guys have a lot of things to be pride of, for example, in only about 500 years you´ve become the most powerful nation in the world. By the time your little piece of land was found across the ocean(unless you count that the vikings discovered America first), we had a well built country and were fighting wars with russia and so on. And that´s one hell of a thing you should be proud of.
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

You understand that most of Europe was involved in the Slave Trade, right?

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

You understand that most of Europe was involved in the Slave Trade, right?

nope, were have you heard that from and wich countries was involved?
please provide your sources for that statement

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

Yup

It is good to have national pride.

The only time that people really get my back up is when the U.S. is described as an evil, imperialistic, greedy nation of rednecks that has never done a single positive thing for the world. However, healthy criticisim is encouraged.

I belive the US have done a lot of positive things to the world, most than any other country.
But I also think they´ve done some very bad things to the world as well.
You guys have a lot of things to be pride of, for example, in only about 500 years you´ve become the most powerful nation in the world. By the time your little piece of land was found across the ocean(unless you count that the vikings discovered America first), we had a well built country and were fighting wars with russia and so on. And that´s one hell of a thing you should be proud of.
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

I agree that we have done some truely crappy things. The treatment of the Native Americans ranks at the top if my list. Slavery comes in at second IMO.


There are many facets to the slavery issue such as the tribes selling other Africans to the slave traders and the other nations heavily involved in the slave trade. But, it was not right to purchase them. The issue of slavery was eventually resolved in the civil war, though it was just the catalyst for the war.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

You understand that most of Europe was involved in the Slave Trade, right?

nope, were have you heard that from and wich countries was involved?
please provide your sources for that statement

http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline3.htm
Check out that timeline. Most of Europe, as well as the Middle East, as well as Africans forcing other Africans into servitude. Slavery has always been a world-wide problem, but everyone chooses to focus on America.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

Yup

It is good to have national pride.

The only time that people really get my back up is when the U.S. is described as an evil, imperialistic, greedy nation of rednecks that has never done a single positive thing for the world. However, healthy criticisim is encouraged.

I belive the US have done a lot of positive things to the world, most than any other country.
But I also think they´ve done some very bad things to the world as well.
You guys have a lot of things to be pride of, for example, in only about 500 years you´ve become the most powerful nation in the world. By the time your little piece of land was found across the ocean(unless you count that the vikings discovered America first), we had a well built country and were fighting wars with russia and so on. And that´s one hell of a thing you should be proud of.
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

I agree that we have done some truely crappy things. The treatment of the Native Americans ranks at the top if my list. Slavery comes in at second IMO.


There are many facets to the slavery issue such as the tribes selling other Africans to the slave traders and the other nations heavily involved in the slave trade. But, it was not right to purchase them. The issue of slavery was eventually resolved in the civil war, though it was just the catalyst for the war.

yeah, didn´t think of the indians though, that was pretty shltty to:/
anyway, with the civil war you ended the slavery. But after that, you shut the black people, who you forced to your country, out of the community (couldn´t find the right word but hope you understans what I mean). First you take them to you, use them, then you "throwed them away", like they were disposable.
Anyway, time heals I hope.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

You understand that most of Europe was involved in the Slave Trade, right?

nope, were have you heard that from and wich countries was involved?
please provide your sources for that statement

http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline3.htm
Check out that timeline. Most of Europe, as well as the Middle East, as well as Africans forcing other Africans into servitude. Slavery has always been a world-wide problem, but everyone chooses to focus on America.

ofcourse there´s always been slavetrading, but as far as I know, never as much as when you took slaves to america. I could been wrong but I don´t think I am.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I am guessing you are from Sweden.

Yup

It is good to have national pride.

The only time that people really get my back up is when the U.S. is described as an evil, imperialistic, greedy nation of rednecks that has never done a single positive thing for the world. However, healthy criticisim is encouraged.

I belive the US have done a lot of positive things to the world, most than any other country.
But I also think they´ve done some very bad things to the world as well.
You guys have a lot of things to be pride of, for example, in only about 500 years you´ve become the most powerful nation in the world. By the time your little piece of land was found across the ocean(unless you count that the vikings discovered America first), we had a well built country and were fighting wars with russia and so on. And that´s one hell of a thing you should be proud of.
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

I agree that we have done some truely crappy things. The treatment of the Native Americans ranks at the top if my list. Slavery comes in at second IMO.


There are many facets to the slavery issue such as the tribes selling other Africans to the slave traders and the other nations heavily involved in the slave trade. But, it was not right to purchase them. The issue of slavery was eventually resolved in the civil war, though it was just the catalyst for the war.

yeah, didn´t think of the indians though, that was pretty shltty to:/
anyway, with the civil war you ended the slavery. But after that, you shut the black people, who you forced to your country, out of the community (couldn´t find the right word but hope you understans what I mean). First you take them to you, use them, then you "throwed them away", like they were disposable.
Anyway, time heals I hope.

One man made that happen IMO, his name is John Wilkes Booth. Abraham Lincoln was the best hope for the political and social integration of the blacks in the United States. Booth succeded in crushing that hope and the hope for the reconstruction of a prosperous south. Thereby dooming the U.S. to nearly a hundred years racial tension and turmoil.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
i'd find a non-american site for this project my friend.

haha, that´s some good advice you´ve got there.

btw. good to see some americans do criticize their country, you are kinda´ know for being a bit to patriotic (no offence)

hahaha in your definition of patriot (aka jingoism) i'm probably the furthest from it.

 

[AlienCraft]

With any luck, you'll be able to add John Kerry to that list in Nov.

 

[K1052]

ofcourse there´s always been slavetrading, but as far as I know, never as much as when you took slaves to america. I could been wrong but I don´t think I am.

The bulk of the trade was clearly done by foreign owned and operated shipping.

It was no less wrong to buy them that it was to transport and sell them.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

You understand that most of Europe was involved in the Slave Trade, right?

From what I can tell from my experiences, Europeans like to forget that they were heavily involved in the slave trade (importing slaves far longer than the US did) and slaughtered the native indians in the Americas on several magnitudes more than the US.

In the end, it's clear that Europe most likely has the most ruthless history in the world.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I just think it's really strange to worship people like that. Why even keep them? I think it's some sort of throwback to the belief that they are superior people and hence does nothing but further the big racial problems in Europe. Do you support monarchies? I'm wondering since you seem to get pretty sensitive and bitter when I commented on it.

Maybe one day you can live as comfortable as we do over here, where we don't worship kings or queens, you have the right to be successful from your hard work, the best educational institutions in the world, etc.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

yeah, didn´t think of the indians though, that was pretty shltty to:/
anyway, with the civil war you ended the slavery. But after that, you shut the black people, who you forced to your country, out of the community (couldn´t find the right word but hope you understans what I mean). First you take them to you, use them, then you "throwed them away", like they were disposable.
Anyway, time heals I hope.

And your people fought a war with Denmark, not by fighting with troops, but by burning down village after village. Or how about the laws durning World War II that forbade Jews from traveling through Sweden. Or how about the Swedish helping the Germans during WWII with their continues, unrecorded, export of iron ore to the German which, some experts say, caused the war to last two years longer than it should have. Your country condemned the war while profitting from it.

What's my point? Every country has a bad past, but not every country has a past of saving nations.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

ofcourse there´s always been slavetrading, but as far as I know, never as much as when you took slaves to america. I could been wrong but I don´t think I am.

I see you failed to look at the passage about the "Black Holocaust" in which the Arabs, alone, sold as many as 12 million African slaves...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

yeah, didn´t think of the indians though, that was pretty shltty to:/
anyway, with the civil war you ended the slavery. But after that, you shut the black people, who you forced to your country, out of the community (couldn´t find the right word but hope you understans what I mean). First you take them to you, use them, then you "throwed them away", like they were disposable.
Anyway, time heals I hope.

Actually, all of Europe (and probably Sweden) is far behind the US or Canada in civil rights. Look what's happening right now. How can you ignore the treatment of minorities? Human rights groups are going nuts over all the legislation being passed in various European countries and how that sentiment is rapidly spreading.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka
But you´ve also done many things you really should be ashamed of. Kidnapping native africans in belief they´re not "real humans", but some kind of primitive beast that you could use for slavery.

You understand that most of Europe was involved in the Slave Trade, right?

From what I can tell from my experiences, Europeans like to forget that they were heavily involved in the slave trade (importing slaves far longer than the US did) and slaughtered the native indians in the Americas on several magnitudes more than the US.

In the end, it's clear that Europe most likely has the most ruthless history in the world.

I feel I´m not as teached in this subject as some of you are so I chose not to make a statement.

although, your continent only have about 500 years of history, and europe have been civilised for much longer. about slaughtering indians I don´t know, although one interesting thing I know about that is that there are runestones saying that the vikings actually got in fights with the indians as the arrived in north america.
Not so important information but I thought it was interesting when I first heard of it.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
With any luck, you'll be able to add John Kerry to that list in Nov.

:thumbsup:

Oh, and all you guys showing off, listing war hero presidents forgot an important one, Zachary Taylor

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I just think it's really strange to worship people like that. Why even keep them? I think it's some sort of throwback to the belief that they are superior people and hence does nothing but further the big racial problems in Europe. Do you support monarchies? I'm wondering since you seem to get pretty sensitive and bitter when I commented on it.

Maybe one day you can live as comfortable as we do over here, where we don't worship kings or queens, you have the right to be successful from your hard work, the best educational institutions in the world, etc.

Just to make one thing clear, I don´t think there is anyone in Swden that´s worshiping our royal family. They are nothing but PR and tradition. Our present King Carl XVI Gustav can´t spell his own name, a month or so ago he was racing around with his son in porsches on public roads along with the "secret service"
What´s the big difference between a monarchy and having a president anyway? one person that´s way more powerful than he should be.
there´s a lot of thing that could, and should be changed in the world

 

[preslove]

Democracies with Monarchies just split the positions of Head of State and Head of Government. The Head of State is the King and/or Queen, and their job is to go to fancy parties and be diplomatic. The Head of Government is the Prime Minister, who set's policy and enforces the laws. In some countries without Monarchies this split is still there, with an elected (Head of State) President and an elected (sometimes they are appointed, but usually not in progressive democracies) Prime Minister. In America the President is both Head of State and Head of Government. This kind of sucks, since dufusses like GWB who get off on being Heads of State are pathetic Heads of Government.

 

[Knarkarplanka]

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

yeah, didn´t think of the indians though, that was pretty shltty to:/
anyway, with the civil war you ended the slavery. But after that, you shut the black people, who you forced to your country, out of the community (couldn´t find the right word but hope you understans what I mean). First you take them to you, use them, then you "throwed them away", like they were disposable.
Anyway, time heals I hope.

And your people fought a war with Denmark, not by fighting with troops, but by burning down village after village. Or how about the laws durning World War II that forbade Jews from traveling through Sweden. Or how about the Swedish helping the Germans during WWII with their continues, unrecorded, export of iron ore to the German which, some experts say, caused the war to last two years longer than it should have. Your country condemned the war while profitting from it.

What's my point? Every country has a bad past, but not every country has a past of saving nations.

well, yes, can´t deny that.
and how about Denmark. Theri king Christian II (the tyrant) seizes the throne of Sweden and to make sure no one will stans up agains him he have 80 noblemen beheaded one afternoon without reason in the middle of Stockholm.
Yes, we did forbid jews from traveling through Sweden and today, we´re ashamed of that. The same with the export of Iron. Although, is Hitler would want our iron, he would hae come get it himself.
And we did have at least one smart diplomat namen Raol Wallenberg who saved about 100 000 jews through his actions

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Knarkarplanka

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
i think it's pretty primitive to have a king or queen

first of all, nowadays, the king doesn´t have any power to rule over here.
and if you thnk thats primitive, I think it´s even more primitive to give so much power to a single person(your president), all they do is using it wrong. instead of war, you could spend it on making your own country stronger, then one day, you may live as comfortable as we do over here.
Free healthcare, almost no poor people, low crimerate, a excellent schoolsystem ect.

Good luck!

I just think it's really strange to worship people like that. Why even keep them? I think it's some sort of throwback to the belief that they are superior people and hence does nothing but further the big racial problems in Europe. Do you support monarchies? I'm wondering since you seem to get pretty sensitive and bitter when I commented on it.

Maybe one day you can live as comfortable as we do over here, where we don't worship kings or queens, you have the right to be successful from your hard work, the best educational institutions in the world, etc.

Just to make one thing clear, I don´t think there is anyone in Swden that´s worshiping our royal family. They are nothing but PR and tradition. Our present King Carl XVI Gustav can´t spell his own name, a month or so ago he was racing around with his son in porsches on public roads along with the "secret service"
What´s the big difference between a monarchy and having a president anyway? one person that´s way more powerful than he should be.
there´s a lot of thing that could, and should be changed in the world

The difference is that a president is elected by the people, not appointed by hereditary conditions. The president doesn't have omnipotent powers either, there are checks and balances (and I'm guessing there are checks and balances within other countries, too).

It just seems so... 17th century... something that shouldn't be around in the 21st century. I think it should go away like the caste system in India - a bad tradition in today's world