• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

American Health Care

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i'll ask again:

why is utah's medical spending per capita so much lower than massachusetts?






and a link to the study for those with access
Click to expand...

Im going to take a wild stab and say that Mormons for the most part lead healthy lives and require less health care. While MA has some ridiculous, "universal forced insurance", plan that forces you to buy insurance so the insurance companies are free to charge ridiculous amounts.
 
America has the best health care in the world. I work hard to be able to buy it. Seems simple to me. You can't find better elsewhere in the world, and it's extremely accessible to the middle class, upper middle class and wealthy.
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i'll ask again:

why is utah's medical spending per capita so much lower than massachusetts?
Click to expand...

I missed it whenever you previously did. So tell us why.
Click to expand...

i don't know. that's why i'm asking. they've obviously done something right if massachusetts outspends them per capita by ~60%. i'm sure some of it is cost of living difference, some of it is the paperwork reduction that utah has pushed through, some of it is demographic. but your guess is as good as mine.

what i do know is that if a lot of what utah has done is repeatable in other states, then there is a lot of medical spending that can be cut down and get our spending at least more in line with other countries.
Click to expand...

I agree. Our health care system, premier in ways, is broken as a national solution in so many ways and on so many levels that only ideology could blind one to this fact.

Our national health care crisis is serious, and demographics are about to make it even more so.

You bet, El F, we have to look everywhere, and openly consider everything, no matter how big or how small, to honestly and effectively address all that which is not serving us well in our present system.

When hospitals compete in the free market, all attempt to acquire the best, latest, but also most costly medical equipment. This has led to over-saturation of high end service in some areas. And yet, every single one of these hospitals has to raise the cost of their general services in order to pay for this otherwise amazing stuff.

I get why you guys who think so, think America's health care leads the world. You are simply not looking at the overall picture, though. The numbers say otherwise. We must find a way to give our entire population health care they can afford. It is a rational efficency for the health care of a nation, all ideology aside. :thumbsup:
 
did you guys read my first post?

the essence of the study is directly related to heart disease/heart attacks

having known many people on these medicines. well they fail to change their lifestyle, keep smoking, don't exercise, keep high pressure jobs, don't reduce their fats/red meats, etc.

i don't see how health care would solve these issues. it's an american society problem.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
I get why you guys who think so, think America's health care leads the world. You are simply not looking at the overall picture, though. The numbers say otherwise. We must find a way to give our entire population health care they can afford. It is a rational efficency for the health care of a nation, all ideology aside. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

HA! Says who? You? I think we need to give our population AR15s that they can afford. And cars that can accelerate 0-60 in 4 seconds or less, while getting 40mpg. Oh wait, these programs are neither possible nor reasonable ideas.

Health care is a scarce good. The market will dictate the price. If you try to dictate the price, you will see shortages and substandard care.
 
Where does the data come from? Unfortunately sometimes the data is provided by the governments. How can you expect a country like Austria to provide real data on the deaths when many minorities are not recognized as humans? The US may still be last, but many European countries consistently lie regarding statistical data.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
When hospitals compete in the free market, all attempt to acquire the best, latest, but also most costly medical equipment. This has led to over-saturation of high end service in some areas. And yet, every single one of these hospitals has to raise the cost of their general services in order to pay for this otherwise amazing stuff.
Click to expand...

regulating that failed over a decade ago.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer

No, I'm not a dumbass on that one. In that respect, I'll state that there are probably more people WITH health insurance that can't afford to go to the doctor (deductibles, etc) any better than those without.
Click to expand...


I really doubt that.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Engineer

No, I'm not a dumbass on that one. In that respect, I'll state that there are probably more people WITH health insurance that can't afford to go to the doctor (deductibles, etc) any better than those without.
Click to expand...


I really doubt that.
Click to expand...

Maybe you're one of the few who hasn't had a degrading policy over the last decade. Health insurance costs a fortune, rises astronomically and is paying less and less with super high deductibles. Not to mention, for many, health insurance is nothing more than catastrophic insurance with the idea that the employee can save for their own healthcare in a health savings account. Unless you start maxing out some deducibles, you're esentially paying what an uninsurred person is paying until you get to that point for many.

I'll concede that it might not be as many people as without health insurance...but then again, it just "might" (unless someone has statistics on it).

Another note...just because one has "access" to healthcare insurance does not mean that one can afford it especially with the skyrocketing premiums.
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Perknose
When hospitals compete in the free market, all attempt to acquire the best, latest, but also most costly medical equipment. This has led to over-saturation of high end service in some areas. And yet, every single one of these hospitals has to raise the cost of their general services in order to pay for this otherwise amazing stuff.
Click to expand...

regulating that failed over a decade ago.
Click to expand...

THIS regulation NEVER existed. Disagree? LINK PLEASE, to said legislation.

 
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Perknose
I get why you guys who think so, think America's health care leads the world. You are simply not looking at the overall picture, though. The numbers say otherwise. We must find a way to give our entire population health care they can afford. It is a rational efficency for the health care of a nation, all ideology aside. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

HA! Says who? You? I think we need to give our population AR15s that they can afford. And cars that can accelerate 0-60 in 4 seconds or less, while getting 40mpg. Oh wait, these programs are neither possible nor reasonable ideas.

Health care is a scarce good. The market will dictate the price. If you try to dictate the price, you will see shortages and substandard care.
Click to expand...

Health care should not be treated like a normal good. You're not going to die if you have to take the bus, when people die from preventable things because the market decided health care costs more than they can afford, we should do something to FIX that, not bow down to the will of the free market.

I'm all for market based solutions when it's practical, but economics is not the be all end all of our society (or at least it shouldn't be). If we can't agree on anything else, I would think that we would be able to agree that preventing people from dying if at all possible is something we as a society should be interested in.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Perknose
I get why you guys who think so, think America's health care leads the world. You are simply not looking at the overall picture, though. The numbers say otherwise. We must find a way to give our entire population health care they can afford. It is a rational efficency for the health care of a nation, all ideology aside. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

HA! Says who? You? I think we need to give our population AR15s that they can afford. And cars that can accelerate 0-60 in 4 seconds or less, while getting 40mpg. Oh wait, these programs are neither possible nor reasonable ideas.

Health care is a scarce good. The market will dictate the price. If you try to dictate the price, you will see shortages and substandard care.
Click to expand...

Health care should not be treated like a normal good. You're not going to die if you have to take the bus, when people die from preventable things because the market decided health care costs more than they can afford, we should do something to FIX that, not bow down to the will of the free market.

I'm all for market based solutions when it's practical, but economics is not the be all end all of our society (or at least it shouldn't be). If we can't agree on anything else, I would think that we would be able to agree that preventing people from dying if at all possible is something we as a society should be interested in.
Click to expand...

You can only toss so many drugs at the 200 pound fatass that continues to smoke, eat fast food, and not exercise. People need to take some responsibility for their own health too.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer


Maybe you're one of the few who hasn't had a degrading policy over the last decade. Health insurance costs a fortune, rises astronomically and is paying less and less with super high deductibles. Not to mention, for many, health insurance is nothing more than catastrophic insurance with the idea that the employee can save for their own healthcare in a health savings account. Unless you start maxing out some deducibles, you're esentially paying what an uninsurred person is paying until you get to that point for many.
Click to expand...

I know you disagree, but this is the direction health insurance needs to go. Right now consumers are captive to medical/insurance world. Consumers generally have no idea what medical care cost and generally do not care as "someone else" is paying for it. However this just leads to an increasing price spiral and that is not good for the consumer. Every time I have I have asked what an office visit costs, the answer is generally less than what get back from insurance as there is less hassle on their end. Insurance for common care is just an unneeded extra layer that costs the consumer. Insurance is supposed to be for the unexpected, not for every doctors visit.

Every one should carry their own catastrophic health care insurance outside of work. If your employer wants to give you better coverage on top of that, good for both of you.

But the point of HSA is that the premiums are lower, so money can be saved for the when you need to use them instead of just going to pay for higher premiums. And if your boss contributes on top of that, great. The stats on HSA look very promising so far as average accountant balances are rising and it does not appear to be a tax shelter for the healthy and wealthy as many claimed it would be.

I'll concede that it might not be as many people as without health insurance...but then again, it just "might" (unless someone has statistics on it).

Another note...just because one has "access" to healthcare insurance does not mean that one can afford it especially with the skyrocketing premiums.
Click to expand...


I am sure it does happen, but I dont know of anyone that has insurance that cannot afford to go get basic care.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Perknose
I get why you guys who think so, think America's health care leads the world. You are simply not looking at the overall picture, though. The numbers say otherwise. We must find a way to give our entire population health care they can afford. It is a rational efficency for the health care of a nation, all ideology aside. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

HA! Says who? You? I think we need to give our population AR15s that they can afford. And cars that can accelerate 0-60 in 4 seconds or less, while getting 40mpg. Oh wait, these programs are neither possible nor reasonable ideas.

Health care is a scarce good. The market will dictate the price. If you try to dictate the price, you will see shortages and substandard care.
Click to expand...

Health care should not be treated like a normal good. You're not going to die if you have to take the bus, when people die from preventable things because the market decided health care costs more than they can afford, we should do something to FIX that, not bow down to the will of the free market.

I'm all for market based solutions when it's practical, but economics is not the be all end all of our society (or at least it shouldn't be). If we can't agree on anything else, I would think that we would be able to agree that preventing people from dying if at all possible is something we as a society should be interested in.
Click to expand...

Unfortunatly the free market is not a good description of american health care. It is highly regulated with heavy government spending involved.

I will agree that free market will not solve every problem, but our medical system could use a good dose of it.
 
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Perknose
I get why you guys who think so, think America's health care leads the world. You are simply not looking at the overall picture, though. The numbers say otherwise. We must find a way to give our entire population health care they can afford. It is a rational efficency for the health care of a nation, all ideology aside. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

HA! Says who? You? I think we need to give our population AR15s that they can afford. And cars that can accelerate 0-60 in 4 seconds or less, while getting 40mpg. Oh wait, these programs are neither possible nor reasonable ideas.

Health care is a scarce good. The market will dictate the price. If you try to dictate the price, you will see shortages and substandard care.
Click to expand...

It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.

So . . . how has this worked out for us?

Depsite, LAUGHABLY, spending twice as much per citizen, covered on not, in our health care sytem, we rank 37thamongst nations in overall in overall health care qualtity.

Our approach, overall, SUCKS. We chase the wondrous grail of premier, cutting edge procedures (also including plasitc surgery and multiple, unblievably espensive procdures to cover our over-litigous ass as the motherfucking END of life) at the expense of our citizenry's overall health. The NUMBERS speak for themselves.

Concerning allocation of our world class resource, roughly x2 FTMFW, we SUCK!!!!

As a nation, comparitively, we suck.

Why not simply admit this and move to correct it, intead of primal, ignorant, nativisit and xenophobic, cries of, "We're # 1?"

We have a crisis on our hands. Stupidity is NOT an option!
Bang, bang, whoo hooo! :roll:

 
Originally posted by: Perknose
It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our health care system is broken as a result of the free market economy?
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our health care system is broken as a result of the free market economy?
Click to expand...

Freemarket would not be a good description of healthcare as it exists today.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our health care system is broken as a result of the free market economy?
Click to expand...

Freemarket would not be a good description of healthcare as it exists today.
Click to expand...

Yeah. We have an idiot bastard hybrid that blows from every direction. The NUMBERS do not lie. Our approach sucks.



 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our health care system is broken as a result of the free market economy?
Click to expand...

Freemarket would not be a good description of healthcare as it exists today.
Click to expand...

Yeah. We have an idiot bastard hybrid that blows from every direction. The NUMBERS do not lie. Our approach sucks.
Click to expand...

For once I agree with you. We need more consumer directed health care and less government directed care. I doubt we will agree on a solution however...
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our health care system is broken as a result of the free market economy?
Click to expand...

Freemarket would not be a good description of healthcare as it exists today.
Click to expand...

Yeah. We have an idiot bastard hybrid that blows from every direction. The NUMBERS do not lie. Our approach sucks.
Click to expand...

I agree, hell everyone should agree, that we need to do something. What we have is not working, and is getting worse.

But have you taken the time to read the article Vic posted in the other thread?
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
It has worked out THIS WAY. We, in our Cowboy, "manfully individualistic" way, have made health care a sadly scarce good in our nation.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that our health care system is broken as a result of the free market economy?
Click to expand...

Freemarket would not be a good description of healthcare as it exists today.
Click to expand...

Yeah. We have an idiot bastard hybrid that blows from every direction. The NUMBERS do not lie. Our approach sucks.
Click to expand...

I agree, hell everyone should agree, that we need to do something. What we have is not working, and is getting worse.

But have you taken the time to read the article Vic posted in the other thread?
Click to expand...

Link it, and I shall come (and read it).

 
It is not just the system that needs changes it is the mind set of the american people. We need to get the american public to take responsibility. That means for starters eating more healthy and get some physical activity. That means going to the Doctors office to get that cold taken care of instead of waiting till that little cold turns into Pneumonia and going to the ER at midnight. It means getting screenings for things for example prostate,colon cancer,heart disease and diabetes. These simple things would bring down the cost per capita drastically. It is much easier and cheaper to treat these things early on or prevent them.

There are other things that should be done to bring cost down by the care providers. Things like quick care clinics are a great example of what can be done to bring down costs. Using a RN and PA instead of a md to diagnose and treat trivial things like colds, strep or minor burns is a great way to bring costs down. I am happy to see these kind of places open at places like grocery stores were it will encourage people to use them.

My point is there needs to be changes all around not to just the care providers or insurance companies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top